Hi guys!

I'm a little over halfways done with kore2k and mostly okay with the words. Not really fond of the business words, since I don't really care about them. My goal is mostly the ability to read manga and novels. I have a bunch of txt files and yomichan, also.

Should I suck it up and do kore6k? If not, where should I start gathering more vocabulary? I'm working on training my grammar up using Japanese the Manga Way (about halfways through) and combining Kanzen Master with DOXJG when I'm done, so I'm covered there.

Ideas? Tips?

Read as much as you can of stuff that interests you. Core6k is a bit dry, so if you find some manga or novels that you like, chances are the vocab you learn there will stick better because it means something to you.

Also, variety. If all you read is fantasy manga, you`ll run into words like 鎧 and 籠手a lot which will serve little purpose in the real world, so try to find various subjects that can hold your attention.

Since I remember you've been saying that you already read manga and novels, is the vocab in there too tough for you right now?

kainzero Wrote:Since I remember you've been saying that you already read manga and novels, is the vocab in there too tough for you right now?

Mostly...like, the back of my light novel I can understand about 50% or so? But it's a children's novel about a girl in middle school, so that's not much of a reference. I can read closer to 40% or so of the sentences, depending on what's going on. Not much, but a lot better than I was when I started. I also understand about 60% or so of Pokemon Black, 20% or so of Gyakuten Saiban (hard, hard), and...yeah.

I was thinking of just going straight to native material after core 2k, since it's better than plowing through a lot of political/business vocab that I don't really care about.

I do read a variety. I have a couple childrens' novels, I have a bunch of shoujou manga (not too much fantasy), and some random stuff...one of my friends is a native, so she gives me whatever she doesn't want anymore so I have a random collection.

I was doing core6k, but a lot of the words seemed unimportant, or I didn't really fully understand how they are used. But at the same time, many of the words in core6k seem very useful.

So what I have ultimately ended up doing, is I just skip the words that I don't like! This way I get the benefit of learning all the words which seem useful to me, and none of the boring ones

Oh... we're supposed to learn the Core decks in order? I just suspend all of them (both core 6k & 2k) and unsuspend stuff I want to learn. I'm going through Japanaese the Manga Way and unsuspending any vocab that I see in the example sentence(if they exist in the deck).

P.S I don't think unsuspend is a word, what's the correct way of saying it?

a very high percentage of the core 6000 are going to be useful... so either just suspend / delete the business words you dont want, or go through unsuspending the words you want like PensukeD said.

I think unsuspend is a word even if it is getting redlined in firefox I'm pretty sure redlined isn't a word tho...

PensukeD Wrote:Oh... we're supposed to learn the Core decks in order? I just suspend all of them (both core 6k & 2k) and unsuspend stuff I want to learn. I'm going through Japanaese the Manga Way and unsuspending any vocab that I see in the example sentence(if they exist in the deck).

P.S I don't think unsuspend is a word, what's the correct way of saying it?

Activate?

PensukeD Wrote:Oh... we're supposed to learn the Core decks in order? I just suspend all of them (both core 6k & 2k) and unsuspend stuff I want to learn. I'm going through Japanaese the Manga Way and unsuspending any vocab that I see in the example sentence(if they exist in the deck).

P.S I don't think unsuspend is a word, what's the correct way of saying it?

I'm going through kore2k to get a solid base of vocabulary. Er, at least the illusion of it, anyways. I like the idea of suspending everything and adding in vocabulary as I go. I was thinking of also doing the 6k, but the thought of almost 5k vocabulary left was discouraging as heck. Yomichan is good, but difficult in some aspects because you can end up with twenty definitions on one card.

Would KO2001 be an option? Or would slipping into native materials be better? I play video games in Japanese and tend.to be okay, so I'm not that bad, just struggling to pull everything together to emphasize native media.

nohika Wrote:Mostly...like, the back of my light novel I can understand about 50% or so? But it's a children's novel about a girl in middle school, so that's not much of a reference. I can read closer to 40% or so of the sentences, depending on what's going on. Not much, but a lot better than I was when I started. I also understand about 60% or so of Pokemon Black, 20% or so of Gyakuten Saiban (hard, hard), and...yeah.

I was thinking of just going straight to native material after core 2k, since it's better than plowing through a lot of political/business vocab that I don't really care about.

I do read a variety. I have a couple childrens' novels, I have a bunch of shoujou manga (not too much fantasy), and some random stuff...one of my friends is a native, so she gives me whatever she doesn't want anymore so I have a random collection.

As I haven't done Core 2k or 6k, I have no idea what it's like. But there's a surprising amount of vocabulary that pops up from KO2001 that I didn't expect at all, even words I laughed off in the beginning like 輸入and 輸出.



I like alternating between intense vocabulary and native material, but that's just me personally. At the moment, for SRS I pull a few sentences from news articles or novels or games a day, but the focus is on whatever vocabulary program I did (before KO2001, now Nihongo So-Matome N2 Vocab). I also throw in a lot of non SRS, "let's just play this game / watch this TV show / read this thing and go with the flow" kinda stuff, maybe even more than I actually review in SRS.

Concerning core2k and 6k.. Hm, I finished core2k and the "just do it"-motivation in me tells me: go straight through 6k. REST after that. (Rest = 2001KO. I dunno if such a deck does exist, but I will delete all the doubles I know through core6k somewhen from 2001KO.)

"Core 2k vs Core 6k and where to go for vocab" <- core2k/6k is full of vocab. I can imagine that going through both will bring you further a lot! I'm currently reading Otsuichi and I must say the grammar is basically the only problem; sometimes I do not know the reading/meaning of compounds, but all in all I can basically follow the plotline.

Tori-kun Wrote:Concerning core2k and 6k.. Hm, I finished core2k and the "just do it"-motivation in me tells me: go straight through 6k.

The one thing I run into is that I actually get /demotivated/ at looking at having all 6k to do. I've worked so hard over the past couple months around school and there's still so far to go. I understand that's how Japanese is in general, but I think at this point I'd like to be done with pre-made vocab lists...2k is a good base, and I think after that moving onto cards from sources I want to read is probably better.

kainzero Wrote:I like alternating between intense vocabulary and native material, but that's just me personally. At the moment, for SRS I pull a few sentences from news articles or novels or games a day, but the focus is on whatever vocabulary program I did (before KO2001, now Nihongo So-Matome N2 Vocab). I also throw in a lot of non SRS, "let's just play this game / watch this TV show / read this thing and go with the flow" kinda stuff, maybe even more than I actually review in SRS.

Do you do individual vocab? I've been doing KO2001 slowly (final exams next week, so I've been trying to tone down my card level), and I do the sentences with (in the ones that have six new words) a compound highlighted. It helps reinforce grammar, too. I don't mind doing KO2001 - adding the sentences isn't bad, I try to do about 5 kanji a day (more on the easy days if possible), and though some of the sentences are a touch boring, they're definitely ones I'd expect to read somewhere and could see how they'd come up in books. Possibly unsuspending the vocab from the Kore6k deck probably couldn't help either...double reinforcement?

I play my gameboy a lot, but don't read quite as much - my DSi (in Japanese) is a lot more portable with a flash cart than a couple books/manga are. I play mostly in English, but I do have a couple games (Gyakuten Saiban) that I try to play in Japanese, and for all games I use a Japanese walkthrough. It's been a fun experience hunting those down...did learn random words. Oh! I play Kanken 3 DS, Kakitorikun (occasionally), and Bunshou Yomi for fun. I've been hunting down anime to watch and settled on one I've watched a couple times in English that I enjoy. Thinking of going for some I have manga of, next...

Thanks everyone for your advice.

For KO2001 I just copied the sentences and only did that. And I learned every word in there, so the first few weeks were really slow. But I got used to it, and I sped through last third of it. I think the last third, I did at a speed of the first two thirds combined.

For So-Matome N2, I just copy the word list. Sometimes it's basic, sometimes there are phrases. I think what helps is that all the words are related. It's a lot easier to remember words in related groups as opposed to words that are completely separate from each other.

Good luck with Gyakuten Saiban. I read that they have no plans to localize the latest game, which kinda puts me in a bind. I assume that many jokes in GS weren't translated and just completely redone in the American version, so even if I play the new one, I won't understand it at all...

kainzero Wrote:For KO2001 I just copied the sentences and only did that. And I learned every word in there, so the first few weeks were really slow. But I got used to it, and I sped through last third of it. I think the last third, I did at a speed of the first two thirds combined.

For So-Matome N2, I just copy the word list. Sometimes it's basic, sometimes there are phrases. I think what helps is that all the words are related. It's a lot easier to remember words in related groups as opposed to words that are completely separate from each other.

Good luck with Gyakuten Saiban. I read that they have no plans to localize the latest game, which kinda puts me in a bind. I assume that many jokes in GS weren't translated and just completely redone in the American version, so even if I play the new one, I won't understand it at all...

That's what I've been doing...so I think I'll do that and finish Kore 2k at the same time, since a lot of the vocab matches (which helps). Yeah, I've heard for a lot of people that around 200 kanji or so you just start being able to remember everything/know all the vocab and you can go a lot faster. I'm not too slow now, but I could be a lot faster (ie, one sentence per sentence).

Yeah, definitely. I'll look into those books too. I'm leaning towards switching grammar study to the dictionary (DOxJG) series, since what I've been using is almost /too/ context-focused but it doesn't involve ALL the context, so it's rather confusing just on cards. That's generally how manga and dialogue in general is, though, but it's a tough way to learn the grammar...it's slightly more fun, but doesn't have NEAR the content that the Dictionary series does.

The latest one is the 3DS game, right? The GS/Layton crossover? I don't plan to get one of those...machines. I played with one for a while and walked away with a massive headache. I have really bad eyesight, wear contacts (hah, even the memory hurts) and I don't think I'd be able to handle the 3D for more than 5 minutes. Plus the battery life sucks.

The one thing that does help me for the Gyakuten Saiban games is that I've played them recently in English, but I can kind of see the differences that were switched - for example, in the first case of the first game, the location of where she was traveling and the hours were switched. The one thing that I hate about GS is the names - how they're in katakana when speaking, but kanji when mentioned. Blech. I study the court record a lot to figure out who is who. But if they aren't translating it to English...yikes. A lot tougher than the rest, that's for sure.

nohika Wrote:Yeah, definitely. I'll look into those books too. I'm leaning towards switching grammar study to the dictionary (DOxJG) series, since what I've been using is almost /too/ context-focused but it doesn't involve ALL the context, so it's rather confusing just on cards. That's generally how manga and dialogue in general is, though, but it's a tough way to learn the grammar...it's slightly more fun, but doesn't have NEAR the content that the Dictionary series does.

my grammar study is also kanzen master, but i feel like grammar isn't too big a problem. most of the time, i'm confused because of vocabulary issues.

the other thing is that i'm cool with just understanding grammar. there's a lot of grammar that i'm not really sure how to use myself, but if i see it, i can understand it. i can talk very simply and write simply and be fine.

it's common advice that you shouldn't imitate anime and games because then you sound like you're from anime and games... but i'm not sure if it's any better to sound like an advanced textbook. =)

Quote:The latest one is the 3DS game, right? The GS/Layton crossover?

nah, i was talking about the new edgeworth game (turns out it's actually gyakuten kenji. hm.) if gs/layton doesn't come out here, i expect to see pitchforks and torches.

speaking of GS, they made a GS game at Sega Joyopolis in Odaiba. =)
http://www.4gamer.net/games/119/G011993/20110420050/

I use Japanese the Manga Way. I was thinking of moving onto Kanzen Master 3kyuu afterwards, but wasn't 100% sure if that was the right way to go. I'm about similar...there's definitely some (a lot of) grammar I don't get, but if I know the vocab I can generally understand the sentence. The thing about the DOxJG series is that they have far more example sentences than JtMW does, plus they are a lot more thorough.

Nah, I'm a book-reader...I lovelovelove books. I can't wait to be able to read them in Japanese. Well, okay, and videogames. Those are awesome too. Manga is just a side benefit.

Ooh, gyakuten kenji! I've played most of the first one in English. Maybe I should try it in Japanese...the nice thing about the first few GS games is that they are bilingual - in both English and Japanese.

And HOLY HECK that link IS AWESOME. xD I was like I recognize those cases!!! Next on my list for after school is definitely gyakuten kenji in Japanese...

Can't wait until I understand more...some of the kanji in those games are cringe-worthy, though I'm guessing a bunch of stuff in KO2001 would show up in them.

I was wondering what kind of words in total are in the ko2001 deck (and I cannot find the text-version of the anki deck anylonger, hm). Only the section vocabulary or are the reference once (far more than! covering basically all common compounds for the selected kanji) also included?
I really got the hang of anki and learning new vocab every day. Besides these subtle differences and correct usages of words (look into that core6k deck, how many words for "connection, relation" do we have?!), grammar is still a huge problem (doing Genki 2 right now and UNICOM 3kyuu Bunpou):

-toki/-tearu and -teshimau

Perhaps my engilsh is not good enough to understand grammatical explanations of a foreign language and I should stay with the german super-university script on japanese grammar, which is good, but too detailed for me T_T

I agree core2k/6k gets boring. I have done about 2800 cards. I only add 3 new cards a day. Its all I can handle.

I'm getting most of my new words using subs2srs. Its AWESOME fun so i can go over 100 new cards a day without getting bored. I have just gone through about 2900 new cards in 32 days (avg. 90 a day).

CONCLUSION TRY OUT SUBS2RS ITS $*&^&* AWESOME!!!! m(-_-)m

juniperpansy Wrote:I agree core2k/6k gets boring. I have done about 2800 cards. I only add 3 new cards a day. Its all I can handle.

I'm getting most of my new words using subs2srs. Its AWESOME fun so i can go over 100 new cards a day without getting bored. I have just gone through about 2900 new cards in 32 days (avg. 90 a day).

CONCLUSION TRY OUT SUBS2RS ITS $*&^&* AWESOME!!!! m(-_-)m

I actually have no experience with subs2srs. Do we need a show that we have both english & Japanese soft subs for it to work?

I guess we have different levels of tolerance, I'm at 2750 and I still quite enjoy doing the deck. I was activating(thanks jettyke ) cards related to 少年 and I got a good laugh from 少年よ大志を抱け . I add 32 new cards per day atm (a weak attempt at number Psychology)

PensukeD Wrote:

juniperpansy Wrote:I agree core2k/6k gets boring. I have done about 2800 cards. I only add 3 new cards a day. Its all I can handle.

I'm getting most of my new words using subs2srs. Its AWESOME fun so i can go over 100 new cards a day without getting bored. I have just gone through about 2900 new cards in 32 days (avg. 90 a day).

CONCLUSION TRY OUT SUBS2RS ITS $*&^&* AWESOME!!!! m(-_-)m

I actually have no experience with subs2srs. Do we need a show that we have both english & Japanese soft subs for it to work?

I guess we have different levels of tolerance, I'm at 2750 and I still quite enjoy doing the deck. I was activating(thanks jettyke ) cards related to 少年 and I got a good laugh from 少年よ大志を抱け . I add 32 new cards per day atm (a weak attempt at number Psychology)

Yes it uses Japanese subs and subs in a language of your choice to make cards for anki. I haven't been able to get it to work though, it seems that if the timings of the sub files don't match up you get some odd flash cards.

Kuma01 Wrote:Yes it uses Japanese subs and subs in a language of your choice to make cards for anki. I haven't been able to get it to work though, it seems that if the timings of the sub files don't match up you get some odd flash cards.

Yes that's what I thought. It's hard enough finding Japanese subs as it is, especially of shows you truly like. But, it might be worth srsing a relatively easy show that has both Jp & eng subs that I don't particularly like just for the experience.

To be honest, watching J-Dorama stuff is fun, but subs2srs bores the hell out of me. Just can't stand it, dunno why, perhaps someone can persuade me like with Anki
Just planned finishing the major task of CORE first.. and grammar, of course, grammar.

I actually finally sucked it up and downloaded some anime in Japanese (Full-Metal Alchemist) that I've watched a couple times in English and listened hard to see what I can figure out. I obviously can't understand everything, but I can pick out a ton of simple phrases, words I know, particles, etc. A lot more then I was anticipating.

I'll finish Core2k and work on KO2001 simultaneously, and then maybe start yanking vocab from other places, also. What's a good place to go after KO2001? Native material, or maybe KiC?

the problem i've had with subs2srs is that the (japanese) subtitles are usually poorly timed, so the audio sometimes doesn't match or cuts off early. that's my experience with dramas.

i've tried manually timing it in Aegisub, but then i feel like i'm spending way too much time editing and not enough time studying. iirc when i used to do timing for anime, it'd take me an hour and a half for a 20 minute episode, though it was with older tools. dramas are 50 minutes, so yeah. not really time-efficient for me...

kainzero Wrote:the problem i've had with subs2srs is that the (japanese) subtitles are usually poorly timed, so the audio sometimes doesn't match or cuts off early. that's my experience with dramas.

i've tried manually timing it in Aegisub, but then i feel like i'm spending way too much time editing and not enough time studying. iirc when i used to do timing for anime, it'd take me an hour and a half for a 20 minute episode, though it was with older tools. dramas are 50 minutes, so yeah. not really time-efficient for me...

Yep pretty much, not worth all the effort just for some audio clips. I'm doing core2k myself but the sentences are rather unimaginative and I've already outgrown the basic grammar used in them. I've yet to find a good source of sentences. I've tried using lyrics but the english translation given is usually not literal enough, which is normally preferable but I find a literal translation helps me understand the workings of Japanese better.