Hey folks,

since my holidays (just 14 days, but at least.. I really needed them) started yesterday, I started digging a bit more grammar, which I haven't done unfortunately for too long.
First of all I recognise I have difficulties once colloquial or casual forms appear in Mangas f.e. (I'm reading currently Otsuichi's Kimi ni shika kikoenai) and would like to know how to get the hang of all these 'strange'/non-textbook, but real-life forms.

Besides that, I started taking notes with questions appearing while going through various type of ressources. I hope to get answer/comments and corrections from all of you :o

Update: To me as a Japanese learner this question-answering thread is very useful, since there a few difficult topics in Japanese obviously not being easy to answer by using DoBJG either, if one looks closely enough at the explanations given.


Questions*

1) mashouka/masenka
It seems like negative questions (masenka) are more polite if you want to invite somebody. The 'somebody' is still given "a chance" to
say no, whereas a 'mashouka' is more orientated to one's own will/volition and less hearer-orientated.

2) Vte oku / Vte aru
Former: preparation for futural convenience etc.
Latter: Something is just done and unchanged (<-> difference to Vte shimau??)

3) no naka/ue/etc. ni/de (?)
When do use 'ni' and when 'de'?
Guess: 'ni' is used if the position is described by a 'non-action' verb, i.e. a verb expressing not a short-action term. (?)

4) kudasai/kudasaimasenka/kuremasenka/itadakemasenka (this one is the politest I guess as it's the longest)
Which one's more polite/less polite (< < <)

5) mou ichido VS. mata
Difference?

*will add stuff here in future, for sure

Thanks for the answers in advance!

Hello Tori!

Tori-kun Wrote:Questions*

1) mashouka/masenka
It seems like negative questions (masenka) are more polite if you want to invite somebody. The 'somebody' is still given "a chance" to
say no, whereas a 'mashouka' is more orientated to one's own will/volition and less hearer-orientated.

ましょうか is used to express the speaker's volition: I'll ..., to make an invitation, suggestion, or a request: let's ..., 先生に聞きましょうか。 to express a conjecture: probably ...

ませんか is used along the lines of: won't you ..., or wouldn't you like to do something ... 踊りませんか。 Won't you dance [with me]? It can be seen as if you are asking that the thing you ask for really get's done. このレストランを食べませんか。

Tori-kun Wrote:2) Vte oku / Vte aru
Former: preparation for futural convenience etc.
Latter: Something is just done and unchanged (<-> difference to Vte shimau??)

ておく describe an action in preparation for something. Example: ホテルを予約しておかなくちゃいけません。 I must make a hotel reservation in advance.

The second is used when something is done from someone who remains yet unnamed or you did something yourself. I don't know if the thing that is done has to remain unchanged, or can change according to different circumstances. Someone has left a book on the table. テープルの上に本が置いてあります。 Or you have made a reservation in a restaurant. レストランの予約してあります。 Which would be the result of 予約して置きました。

V-base + てしまう can mean that you have finished doing something, or doing something thoroughly or to the end.　私は朝ごはんを食べてしまった。 I ate all the breakfast. Or if you want to say that you do something in the future you can say 本を読んでしまいました。 You will read the book from front to cover. Or the other way around in Japanese. *hihi*

Tori-kun Wrote:3) no naka/ue/etc. ni/de (?)
When do use 'ni' and when 'de'?
Guess: 'ni' is used if the position is described by a 'non-action' verb, i.e. a verb expressing not a short-action term. (?)

の中で can be used for comparison between two or more items. の上に if you left something inside a bus or in your house. の上に there is a thing on ... 机の上にみかんがあります。 There is a tangerine on the table.

I would summarize it as follows: に for place description where something is
で if something takes place somewhere.

If you sleep in on a chair, you can descibe it as 私が椅子の上で寝ていました。

Tori-kun Wrote:4) kudasai/kudasaimasenka/kuremasenka/itadakemasenka (this one is the politest I guess as it's the longest)
Which one's more polite/less polite (< < <)

Ordered in decreasing politeness.
～ていただけませんか
～てくださいませんか
～てもらえませんか
～てくれませんか
～てくれない

Tori-kun Wrote:5) mou ichido VS. mata
Difference?

もう一度 do sth. one more time
また do sth. again.

I don't know if everything i have written here is indeed correct. If not, i hope that someone will read it, and correct my mistakes.

Thanks for that long reply!

Quote:Hello Tori!
ましょうか is used to express the speaker's volition: I'll ..., to make an invitation, suggestion, or a request: let's ..., 先生に聞きましょうか。 to express a conjecture: probably ...
ませんか is used along the lines of: won't you ..., or wouldn't you like to do something ... 踊りませんか。 Won't you dance [with me]? It can be seen as if you are asking that the thing you ask for really get's done. このレストランを食べませんか。

"to make an invitation", well, both have an invitory tone, right? My question was more aimed at the different/nuanced usage of those forms, but thanks for answering.

Quote:2) Vte oku / Vte aru
ておく describe an action in preparation for something. Example: ホテルを予約しておかなくちゃいけません。 I must make a hotel reservation in advance.

The second is used when something is done from someone who remains yet unnamed or you did something yourself. I don't know if the thing that is done has to remain unchanged, or can change according to different circumstances. Someone has left a book on the table. テープルの上に本が置いてあります。 Or you have made a reservation in a restaurant. レストランの予約してあります。 Which would be the result of 予約して置きました。

V-base + てしまう can mean that you have finished doing something, or doing something thoroughly or to the end.　私は朝ごはんを食べてしまった。 I ate all the breakfast. Or if you want to say that you do something in the future you can say 本を読んでしまいました。 You will read the book from front to cover. Or the other way around in Japanese. *hihi*

'-teoku' was rather clear. It describes something one does in advance/for the future.
However, the difference between '-teshimau' and '-tearu' is still not clear and the explanations from Genki 2 are somewhat irritating me ~.*

Quote:3) no naka/ue/etc. ni/de (?)
When do use 'ni' and when 'de'?
...
I would summarize it as follows: に for place description where something is
で if something takes place somewhere.

SUPER USEFUL! Thanks!!!

Quote:4) kudasai/kudasaimasenka/kuremasenka/itadakemasenka (this one is the politest I guess as it's the longest)
Which one's more polite/less polite (< < <)
Ordered in decreasing politeness.
～ていただけませんか
～てくださいませんか
～てもらえませんか
～てくれませんか
～てくれない

Then ~てください goes in between those:
～てくれませんか
～てくれない
??

' Wrote:5) mou ichido VS. mata
Difference?
もう一度 do sth. one more time
また do sth. again.

Well, when you do sth. one more time you = do it again, right?

THANK YOU <3

New question:

和歌の参考書なら、佐々木先生の研究室にある。
なら: "as for" and は: "as for" - What's the difference between those two particle?
[Well, my first guess is that the former has a stronger contrast than は. It's emphasized and limited, in this case, the reference book's for waka. Only they can be asked and searched for and nothing else. Right?]

Tori-kun,

Most of your questions are covered very well in the tae kim grammar. Have you read through it? There is a shared SRS deck in anki uploaded by Nukemarine, i found it invaluable for learning grammar. Didn't even take long - every day I'd read one page/lesson, then un-suspend the example sentences in anki, add notes and then review them next day. It took me less than 1 month (and im lazy).

EDIT: なら means "assuming X is true, then....". It's totally different to は (as for X, ....).

So your example sentence sort of translates "Assuming you mean the waka reference book, it's in sasaki sensei's lab".

In more natural english, "If you're talking about the waka reference book, it's in sasaki sensei's lab".

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/gra...nals#part3

Tori-kun Wrote:"to make an invitation", well, both have an invitory tone, right? My question was more aimed at the different/nuanced usage of those forms, but thanks for answering.

ませんか is used when you want to inquire about the listeners desire when asking a quesiton. 鳥君も一緒に食べませんか。 Won't you eat with me, Tori-kun? I "invite" you to tell how you think, and expect your decision. Tell me, how you think about it.

ましょう is used to express your intention, or to urge someone, to carry out an action in question. 私が寝ましょう。 (Let's) go to bed. You tell everyone that you are going to bed. そろそろ行きましょうか。 (Shall we ...) go soon? You are urging the listener to perform the action in question. But you don't want to ask this out of context, meaning that it should be something that is implied or expected.

Tori-kun Wrote:'-teoku' was rather clear. It describes something one does in advance/for the future. However, the difference between '-teshimau' and '-tearu' is still not clear and the explanations from Genki 2 are somewhat irritating me ~.*

～てある in other words, is describing the end result of an action, that has taken place. It is a completed action. The action you have completed, for instance you have finished reading a book, can also carry the meaning of having something completed, for something else. You read the book, in preparation, before you started writing a report.

～てしまう can be used if you perform an action that is unintended. For instance you received a letter from your family, but you threw it away, unintentionally. It can also mean that an action was performed. "It is unfortunate that i threw the winning ticket away, i lost 6,000.000 Mio. €" Or that the outcome of an action performed is contrary to what you have been expecting. "I was throwing a grenade, which i thought would kill the enemy, but it was only a blind and nothing happened."

It can also be used to say that you have done something completely. For instance, "I have read the book from front to back." and i regret it.

All of the above can be described as sense of regret. I hope this makes it a little more clear now.

Tori-kun Wrote:Then ~てください goes in between those:
～てくれませんか
～てくれない
??

Yes. This should go in between those.

Tori-kun Wrote:Well, when you do sth. one more time you = do it again, right?

The difference is - Let's meet again (some time soon).
Let's try to do this exercise one more time. (perform an action one more time.)

Tori-kun Wrote:New question:

和歌の参考書なら、佐々木先生の研究室にある。
なら: "as for" and は: "as for" - What's the difference between those two particle?
[Well, my first guess is that the former has a stronger contrast than は. It's emphasized and limited, in this case, the reference book's for waka. Only they can be asked and searched for and nothing else. Right?]

和歌の参考書なら、佐々木先生の研究室にある。
If it's the waka reference book [that you're talking about], it's in Sasagi-sensei's office.

和歌の参考書は、佐々木先生の研究室にある。
As for the reference book, it's in Sasagi-sensei's office.

てある is used to represent that an action was done by another person you're not naming (either because you don't know, or it's not important). We represent this usage by the passive in English. So someone might ask 新しい本がもう頼んである？ (Has a new book been ordered?) because in this case either we don't know who's doing the ordering or it's not important. Passives are usually not used here because outside of formal/written language, it's uncommon to use passives with inanimate objects like books.

Nagareboshi's answers have been good but I have one comment:

Quote:～てある in other words, is describing the end result of an action, that has taken place. It is a completed action. The action you have completed, for instance you have finished reading a book, can also carry the meaning of having something completed, for something else. You read the book, in preparation, before you started writing a report.

As far as I know you cannot use てある with your own actions unless you want to avoid saying that you were the one who did the action (for instance, if you're talking about things that various people in the office are doing and the fact of the action being done is more important than who did it). But if you say あの本はもう読んである it's going to sound to Japanese people like someone else read the book.

If you want to use "preparation" you tend to use ておく more than てある.

てしまう indicates that an action was completed, sometimes with a negative meaning (but not always -- it's a mistake to associate this too much with negative meanings because native speakers often use it to just mean "completely do X" with no negative connotation at all). The meaning doesn't really overlap with てある at all.

As for the ません vs. ましょう（か） with invitations, typically ましょう is used more with things that both the speaker and listener will be doing, whereas ません is more of a one-sided offer, although that's not absolute. 食べませんか? is emphasizing that you are asking the person if they want to eat, whereas 食べましょうか sounds more like both the speaker and listener will be eating. As I said though, this is not absolute.

Well, but..

"end of an action" equals to me to "an action is completed", doesn't it?

Tori-kun Wrote:"end of an action" equals to me to "an action is completed", doesn't it?

You can "stop acting" and then you can "finish acting."
Chances are you won't 読んでしまう a book in one sitting. You can 読む it just fine, but unless it's like Dr. Seuss or something, you probably won't 読んでしまう it.

Similarly, if you're at a party, you can 飲んでしまう a drink, even if you only have a little bit. This would be the "negative/accidental" usage of it, if it was your friend's drink instead of yours that you had.

Well.. I have different sources and types of grammatical explanations in German as well as in English, but it seems I am getting more and more confused (or am I just dumb?).

～ておく is clear. It described an action that a person, i.e. I, do for the future, as a preparation.

～てある is not clear to me yet. As far as I got it (please correct me if it's wrong!), it describes something, an action, is finished to some extent; one "has done something to something"
[Something stays in a state also. But what's the difference to ～ている then?]

～てしまう is not clear to me yet. As far as I got it (please correct me if it's wrong!) describes
a) an action one regrets ("I drank his drink unintentionally and I feel bad about it" - a bit exaggerated) and
b) an action that is entirely finished and cannot be undone. ("I am at school right now, but forgot my homework. Unfortunately there is no time I can run home getting it and handing it in as the rest of my class is doing." = the part "I forgot the homework" cannot be undone; it's too late)

～ている was clear. It can mean that, like in English expressed by the progressive form, that something is a continous action ("I am eating right now", "you are drawing a picture" etc.) but also an 'enduring state' (Tae Kim), like "We are married" (in that context it also could mean one is right now in the church marrying, right? See above.)

An example:
1. まどがしまっています。
2. 「あついですね。」 - 彼女は今窓をあけています。
3. まどがあけてあります。
　　「どうして？」
　　「あついから。」
　　「彼女があけたんです。」

Concerning -tearu implies also that the window stays open, right?

Sorry for asking so much. Certainly this is just a very "basic" and "noob"-like topic and, but it really troubles me. When I read these forms I would probably get the hang of what is meant, but understanding grammar means to me being also able to be able to use it on one's own. Thanks for any help as always!

てある is, as a construct, slightly tough to get your head around, but once you get it it's like 'wow...that's simple!'
ている and てある are different in form, for one thing
窓が閉まっている <-- 閉まる, intrasitive; it's simply in the state of being closed
窓が閉めてある <-- 閉める, transitive; it's in the state in which someone has closed it
It's implied that someone -shut- the window, as opposed to the window 'being shut.'
I never thought about it, but yudan said that it's close to 閉められている
(ている　form of the passive form of 閉める, except easier to understand)

In your てしまう examples, I think they'd both be the regrettable options. Drinking your friends drink on accident and forgetting your homework are both regrettable actions. Yeah, that would probably be てしまう
But the way in which it's done completely could be said in a neutral tone. Like if you read an entire book, or if you eat your meal entirely. Because there's no more pages in the book, or food left on your plate, you've completed it.
Although, in conversation you'll probably hear it in a slight 'regrettable' tone. Not deeply "omg i feel so bad!" kind of thing but maybe, "oh crap, screwed this up!" or something

Tori-kun Wrote:～てある is not clear to me yet. As far as I got it (please correct me if it's wrong!), it describes something, an action, is finished to some extent; one "has done something to something"
[Something stays in a state also. But what's the difference to ～ている then?]

I think "has done something to something" obscures an important point about てある which is that the subject of the sentence is not the person who has done the thing but the thing it was done to. This is different from ている ておく てしまう. So usually a verb that's transitive (takes an を marked object) becomes intransitive, with the object moving to be the subject, eg 墓石に名前を書く => 名前が墓石に書いてある.
The focus is on the thing and the state it's in, not the action and the person doing it. For verbs where there's a transitive-intransitive pair (like 開ける/開く) then you get a choice: you can use the simple intransitive verb with ている: 窓が開いている which just says "the window is open". Or you can use the transitive verb with てある: 窓が開いてある, which adds the implication that somebody has deliberately opened the window.

As Yudantaiteki says, English generally uses the passive for this sort of thing; although Japanese has a passive form it isn't used for exactly the same set of jobs.

Hm, at some point the different grammatical explanations from the books I currently have are irritating and misleading. If the forms occur in text, written, I would probably understand what's being talked about or what is supposed to be said. If I have to decide, like in a test, which form to chose from A) to D) in all combinations, I'm not sure and pick in 80% of all cases the wrong one (UNICOM 3kyuu Bunpou f.e.) and I can't explain myself why.

～ておく is really clear by now.
～てしまう: Simply said, an action if finished by someone; carries the nuance of regret sometimes but not always.

Still remaining troublesome:

～ている: Progessive form and describing a state ("enduring state" They are married.)
～てある: Like the one above described a result of an action but carries the nuance that someone did it (agent often omitted -> unknown, unimportant).
Is the following example correct?
窓を開けました。(I opened the window) 今もそして開けています。 (And now it's -still- open) = 窓を開けてあります。 (Result of an action = opening the window -> remains.)


I have the feeling that the textbook Genki 2 is at some grammar points "mystifying" grammar and making it more complex than comprehensive unfortunately. It seems like Tae Kim's grammar explanations are too tedious, too simple and perhaps partially wrong/incomplete - but that's only an impression of mine. Please cheer me up guys; everybody's saying Japanese grammar is "easy" compared to kanji, but obviously with me it's not the case. It's really difficult to comprehend and I really try getting my head into various grammatical sources I can exploit for my own benefits..

Tori-kun Wrote:Is the following example correct?
窓を開けました。(I opened the window)

Yes.

Quote:今もそして開けています。 (And now it's -still- open)

No. 開ける is transitive, so 開けています means "[I am/he is/etc] still in the act of opening it". (Also I think 今もそして is wrong but I'm going to ignore that for now as it's not relevant to the point.) You probably wanted 開いています (ている form of the intransitive 開く)

Quote:= 窓を開けてあります。 (Result of an action = opening the window -> remains.)

If you just want to state the situation then I'd use が rather than を: 窓が開けてあります。

窓を開けました OK
"I opened the window"

今も窓が開けています　X
If you want to say that the window still open: 今も窓が開いています
--> Comes to 開く(intransitive, happens by itself) and goes to ている
Otherwise, 今も窓を開けています -> still now I am opening the window...?

窓を開けてあります X
窓が開けてあります。
--> "The window remains opened"
The window gets the が because of the ある at the end.

Careful with your trans/intrans verbs, and make sure the を／が is matching right.
With the ている, it's normal. The て verb is the action/state that is continuing.

If you're using てある, they almost appear backwards. It is continuing to be in the state of having [trans verb] done to it. So it feels weird to use が with 開ける, when the noun before が isn't doing the action. But that's just how てある works.

*shrug* I'm realising that's I'm slowly losing track.. Hm, perhaps I should come to the chapter first where transitivity and intransitivity is covered, right?

It would interest me very much how you both guys - and others - could summarise the asked forms, I mean.. how do you remember them (ga/wo? -teiru or -tearu?)? Thanks for any further help and explanations.

First, get your transitivities covered. It's not hard, it's just a matter of "is this action happening by itself, or is something doing it to something?"
Some general rules of thumbs (but definitely not always true!)
If they end with ”える” it's probably transitive:
閉める／開ける (to close something / to open something)
And if they end with something eles like "ある” it's probably intransitive:
閉まる／開く (to close on its own/ to open on its own)
Or there's also the る／す thing:
起きる／起こす　(to wake up by yourself / to wake someone up)

In general (so, with ている） the actor gets the が, and the being acted upon get the を
私が窓を閉めました (I closed the window...let's not get into　は／が right now...)
窓が閉まった (The window closed)
So, after these actions, it would get to the state:
窓が閉まっている (the window is closed / it is in a state of having closed)

The てある is what screws things up, because the verb tying the が／を to it is the ある, not the　て form verb.
窓が閉めてある --> the same as　窓がある, except with some more information.
The 閉めてある adds the information that it is "existing" while having "been closed."
So "the window exists （窓がある） in the state of having been closed (by someone)"

So does that help the を/が confusion a little bit? I know my explanations aren't that great, but it's not so complicated when you get your head around it. Seeing a lot of examples in context would be great for this, I think.

edit: kept saying "door" instead of "window" :/

1. Concerning transitivity

I could say then f.e. for intransitives
車が止まった。　The car stopped.
ドアが閉まった。 The door closed.
right? Talking about transitivity (or as seen above intransitivity), one could also add an agent (-> passive, marked by に): The car was stopped by me. - right?

2. It's ～ある screwing things up, yeah
- can only be used with transitives (hm, usually transitives take を to mark a direct object, don't they? as seen above the trans. ones have to take が instead.)
- as -teiru it describes a result of an action (by someone intentionally.. a human. usually omitted as unknown/unimportant)
-> this action remains in the present

!~ difference to -teiru ~!
??? 結婚していた。 They married. (also a result of an action, namely marrying, which is endured till the present. ???)

Posted this in reply to you on my blog, but posting it here too, just in case. 頑張って！

It seems like you've got good explanations for everything but the difference between ている and てある。 I'll take a crack at explaining how I got my head around てある、because they are very different.

ている　is, as you said used for an action that is continuing currently, as in "We are married" or ”I'm in the process of doing my homework.”

てある means "it has been done by someone with some specific purpose."

For example, let's say I'm working at the restaurant, and someone is asking me about the prices of the different kinds of beer. If I happen to have free time, I'll answer them. If I'm busy however, I might say "すみませんけど、メニューに書いてある: I'm sorry, but they're all written in the menu." In this case, there is no continuous action. The prices were written in the menu, and now, that's where they are. Someone wrote them there for a reason. The reason was so customers didn't have to ask me the price.

Here are some other examples that might help make てある more clear.

教室に入ったら、皆の机の上に、赤いマーカーが置いてあった：When we entered the classroom, red markers had been left on everyone's desk. (Someone has left the markers there, and though we don't yet know why, they were obviously left there with some purpose.)

Now imagine you're the teacher, and you KNOW why you want the students to use red markers. "授業が始まる前に、赤いマーカーを配っておいた：Before the lesson started, I passed out red markers (in preparation for something). There's your usage of ておく。

Now let's try contrasting ている　and てある。

あのおじさんは自分の家の窓を板でふさいでいる：That man is (currently in the act of) boarding up his windows.

あの家の窓は板で塞いである: That house's windows have been boarded up (by someone for some reason).

I hope that helps.

Tori-kun Wrote:*shrug* I'm realising that's I'm slowly losing track.. Hm, perhaps I should come to the chapter first where transitivity and intransitivity is covered, right?

Or you step back a little, until you really understand, what you are learning. It seems to me, that not the books are the problem in your case, but you hurriedly working through them. For instance in Genki 1 + 2 there are enough exercises, so i guess if you do them, you should understand perfectly well how things go together. Or maybe your problem is the result of switching between different sets of learning activities, and something that should be clear drowns in all the information. Don't do too many things concurrently, KOXYZ / Genki / Grammar Book / JLPT book, if you can't follow and aren't able to remember the basics. All of the above are only wild guesses, but some of it can be the reason, why you have such a hard time. Think it over.

Tori-kun Wrote:It would interest me very much how you both guys - and others - could summarise the asked forms, I mean.. how do you remember them (ga/wo? -teiru or -tearu?)? Thanks for any further help and explanations.

You use the が/を combination with transitive verbs describing activities.
私が電気を点けました。

You use が alone for intransitive verbs to describe changes.
電気が点きました。

～ている can be used for both changes (of status from being single to getting married) and activities in progress.

You use は/を　combination together with ～ている to describe actions in progress.
私は窓を開けています。

You use は or が together with ～ている for states that hold after a change takes place.
まどが開いています。

You use noun + は or が together with ～てある where を would normally be expected.

ドアが閉めてあります。 (transitive)
ドアが閉まっています。 (intransitive)

～てある almost always goes with transitive verbs.
～ている (almost?) always goes with intransitive verbs.

The thing is that in a てある sentences describes the current state of a thing that is the result of human action. With ている, however, you have either closed a door, as in the example, or the door shut because a gush of wind closed it.

I hope my explanation is generally intelligible and correct.

Thanks for registering especially for that here! You're welcome, bobby! Your explanations were really helpful, but let me...

Quote:あのおじさんは自分の家の窓を板でふさいでいる：That man is (currently in the act of) boarding up his windows.

あの家の窓は板で塞いである: That house's windows have been boarded up (by someone for some reason).

The examples above you gave are a bit irritating. The first one is clear: it describes the english equivalent of the progressive form. The action the man performs is now, right now he is doing it. This usage is clear to me, thank you very much!

As far as I understood you, -tearu carries indeed the nuance that someone - but the actual "agent" is left out like in your 2nd sentence, right? - performed an action (having a result in the present not changing) with an intention (your example with the beer was quite good explaining it I found! Thank you so much for that one!). I'd really like to hear the explanation of the second sentence (above) compared with the same sentence just using -iru (not for "progressive form", but for the usage of something is enduring something) instead of -aru...

-teoku is the easiest one amongst them, I think.
-teshimau means an action has finished.


Could you say, f.e.

私はこの本を読んでしまった。 - I finished reading this book (completely. this action cannot be undone. You know what's written in the book and this "can't be erased from your memory making you not knowing what's written in there", right?)
私は宿題を出来てしまった。 (宿題をできる - to make one's homework, right? I assume this.) - I finished doing my homework. Can you say it like that?

@Nagareboshi: well, what else can I say besides you are right with your observations? Hm, at some point Genki does a really good and fascinating job explaining things but on the other hand some chapters are horribly incomprehensible.. (motivate me, please. feels like a burnout.)

Quote:I'd really like to hear the explanation of the second sentence (above) compared with the same sentence just using -iru (not for "progressive form", but for the usage of something is enduring something) instead of -aru...

あの家の窓は板で塞いである: That house's windows have been boarded up (by someone for some reason).

If you wanted to use ている, you would have to change 塞ぐ(transitive) to 塞がる(intransitive) and it would be OK, and pretty much mean the same thing. Minus the implication that it was done by someone for some reason.

I don't know if you need to complicate -te aru by adding in things about intentions; it just represents a completed action that's done by someone you don't state (either because it's not important or you don't know). More or less equivalent to one use of the passive in English.

So in English we say "Many stores have their windows boarded up", but it would also be possible to say "Many store owners have boarded up their windows" and it's pretty much the same thing. In the same way, you could use either てある or ている to express the condition in Japanese; it just depends on whether you want to put emphasis on the action or the person/persons who did the action.

An example I found on the internet with a google search:
Fラン大学に貼ってあるポスター
So here the emphasis is on the hanging poster, not whoever put it up. If you wanted to use 貼っている, the listener would expect a subject -- if it wasn't stated it would sound like the speaker was the person who hung the poster (since the default in Japanese is always that the speaker is the subject). You could work a subject in there with 誰か, but since the person who hung the poster isn't important, you might as well just go with 貼ってある.

書いてある is particularly common to refer to things that have been written (in a book, on a wall, etc.). Something like 説明書にはそう書いてある ("That's what it says in the instruction book"). Once again, if you use 書いた or 書いている it's going to sound like the speaker did the writing unless you shoehorn a 誰か or something in there. But 説明書には誰かそう書いた sounds really odd -- like you're referring to someone who wrote something in the instruction manual after it was printed, or something like that.

I don't know that this makes it any clearer...

Tori-kun Wrote:@Nagareboshi: well, what else can I say besides you are right with your observations? Hm, at some point Genki does a really good and fascinating job explaining things but on the other hand some chapters are horribly incomprehensible.. (motivate me, please. feels like a burnout.)

I agree that some points are explained in a rather incomprehensible way. And if that is the case, change the text in a way, you are able to understand it. This is what i did.

Motivation: Give up, yes, forget Japanese. I mean, come on, you don't understand it, do you? You are only pretending to understand some things. But you really know nothing, because you are not even touching the surface, of the language. Try something easier instead, like Farsi. The chances of you ever being able to understand Japanese, to converse on a near native level, and on top of that live a life over there are zero, zilch, non existent. And if you are still not convinced to give up, there is hope for you, that you get yourself together, get better, and overcome the problems you are facing right now.

Instead of doing everything concurrently, stick with one book and work through it, with other books as resource. Start to learn how to learn. Sounds stupid, i know, because you are learning already. And you have your successes the way you are learning right now. But if you know how you learn best, it will help you in the long run, to alter the way you are learning right now. Making everything more effective.

Recently i started reading a book. It is called The Art of Teaching Science Content. I love books like these, because they are full of suggestions, to incorporate different methods into the learning process. This is something i would suggest you start doing. Read books about English Vocabulary learning, even if this is totally unrelated to anything else, and you will find new ideas to tackle problems.

Just don't give up, or else ....! And i would be really worried about the else part here, because this else is so ugly, so abominably, abysmally evil, that you don't want to find out what it is! If this is still not enough motivation for you, just say so, i have more in petto.