A clarification: RTK2 does use words; ~2200 kanji compound words covering the common on-readings for each kanji. Not in sentences though.

@cellophone: Based on other comments, I believe Buonaparte is suggesting that audio is always necessary.

@Autumn2: I'd say get a basic foundation in the language before trying to learn vocab for 2000 kanji. You want to have enough understanding of sentence structure and vocabulary to comfortably learn new vocab in context.

OK last post for me in this thread - this discussion belongs to the RTK2 thread.

*Divide-and-conquer* (or N + 1 learning, if you want) is what made RTK1 efficient.

RTK2 uses the same divide-and-conquer principle, and is fantastically efficient at loading in your mind *one* on-yomi for a big bunch of kanji.

Once you know these on-yomi, you just pick up Halpern and add compounds like crazy to your SRS (as well as more readings). The benefits are huge, as you can guess with reasonable accuracy the readings of these compounds. I haven't finished RTK2 myself, and I haven't done any statistical analysis, but looking into Halpern, it seems that compounds with RTK2 on-on readings must count in the tens of thousands.

I'm with the RTK2 is mostly useless group. Just learn words.

Majority of people are favoring learning vocabs instead of learning on yomi and kun yomi separately. nothing wrong with learning readings separately but still vocabs are much more preferred and advised. I guess both methods has its own advantages.

If by going vocabs is the case then which decks are recommended. There are so many vocabs/sentences decks in anki. I guess core 2000 and KO 2001 are the famous one's. Any other suggestions please? First Rtk1, then grammar and then vocabs is the route i intend to go.

After which vocab/sentence decks do you guys think the japanese books will begin to be understandable.

might wanna try this out. I like it anyways.
http://www.whiterabbitpress.com/catalog/...16554.html
Has all the jouyou kanji in it.

autumn2 Wrote:Majority of people are favoring learning vocabs instead of learning on yomi and kun yomi separately. nothing wrong with learning readings separately but still vocabs are much more preferred and advised. I guess both methods has its own advantages.

If by going vocabs is the case then which decks are recommended. There are so many vocabs/sentences decks in anki. I guess core 2000 and KO 2001 are the famous one's. Any other suggestions please? First Rtk1, then grammar and then vocabs is the route i intend to go.

After which vocab/sentence decks do you guys think the japanese books will begin to be understandable.

Core 2000 is probably better for those who aren't a higher grammar level. I dunno about whether Core 6k is useful, though - from what I've heard, it's a bunch of business vocabulary. KO2001 is harder, from what I've heard. So far I'm 25 kanji in and it's not too bad, but again, I've gone through over half of Core 2k and have 500 vocab words from other places in my "memory", also.

Learning vocab in context is somewhat essential - use core's sentences, not just the vocabulary. It's overwhelming at first, but the sentences are generally pretty simple. I'd give an example but I have to leave for work in five minutes and I'm not that coherent.

I'll give you the same advice I've heard from some of the smartest people on here - there will ALWAYS be a learning curve when you jump into native materials. The more you know, the slightly easier it will be, but it's still going to be frustrating and painful. All you can do is suck it up and do it. Even glancing through and looking up some words or whatever helps you get used to it. I'd recommend starting ASAP...I'm not that good but I still play native materials (Pokemon, Gyakuten Saiban (hah), and I read manga and a few light/children's novels).

Best of luck.

other than the game above that i just started messing around with recently, I have a long term Anki project that I am working on. Basically, I use all the vocab from KO2001 and then I input each vocabulary word into the Kenkyusha New Japanese-English dictionary. (aka the Green Goddess I believe) I then just copy and paste a sentence from that entry that I like into Anki. With the furigana plug-in for Anki this works really well. Of course your grammar would have to be good enough to read the sentence in Japanese. It isn't really anything above Tae Kim level grammar though.

louischa Wrote:Once you know these on-yomi, you just pick up Halpern and add compounds like crazy to your SRS (as well as more readings).

Don't recommend something stupid that you haven't actually tried.

Thank you everyone for your guidance, suggestions and kind words. i am grateful for showing me the right path to follow.

nohika, pudding cat, chamcham, cellophane, mgbp7, kainzero, SendaiDan, Tzadeck, yudantaiteki, buonaparte, Tori-kun, louischa, mlorenz, Thora, nest0r, Hashiriya. Thank you so much guys. ^_^

Good luck with reading Japanese...

Rather than leaping unassisted into the printed page, can I suggest you look out for audio books (オーディオブック also known as 朗読CD (ろうどくCD )). That way you can listen to correct pronunciation, and also intonation, while you read. As an added bonus, a good reader will bring the material alive and make it much more vivid and interesting for you. There is also some research that suggests that material is retained better when it is listened to rather than read. (Anyone know this reference?)

One problem is that audio books have not received nearly the same level of popularity in Japan as they have in the West, so suitable titles are hard to find.This is slowly changing however. I see there are some titles on iTunes Japan (which I haven't been able to download). There are some audio book threads on this website and also some radio dramas with transcripts provided. I have also often wondered if there is a vast amount of audio books available for the blind in Japan that could be utilized but haven't pursued it. Japanese film transcripts are another possibility.

I suggest diving in and playing with a number of approaches. You'll soon discover what works for you. Maybe you could keep us posted as to how you get on. I would welcome hearing about any successes you might have, especially if you do decide to go the 朗読 route.

Febe is one of the largest audio book sellers in Japan:
http://www.febe.jp/

However, jumping straight into any kind of native material fresh out of RTK1 is likely to be overwhelming for most people.

Thanks for febe.. It looks like a great site, I had never heard of it before.

I quite agree, jumping straight into written Japanese is pretty tough going, even with audio support, and 2,000 kanji under the belt. There must, however be stuff out there that's short, interesting to listen to, and doesn't make too many overwhelming vocabulary / grammar demands. Maybe someone has some suggestions

I feel very language deprived at the moment but would like to listen to an hour or so of Japanese a day. Hopefully febe will be useful in this endeavor.

Harpagornes Wrote:There must, however be stuff out there that's short, interesting to listen to, and doesn't make too many overwhelming vocabulary / grammar demands. Maybe someone has some suggestions

Probably go for news sites/folklore/old stories aimed at Japanese children. I don't remember the links, but they should be on this site.

Do core6k. Worked here There is lots of business related stuff, but due to the audio it's quite good, I suppose. You start slowly off with core2k and work your way up..

Edit: If you are through Tae Kim's basic section you probably won't have grammatical problems understanding the sentences and you will quickly pick up some useful and commonly used vocabulary. Though, I suggest you start skipping pages in Japanese and clicking the 's' button frequently in Rikai-san^^ At least that's what I've done so far and it worked.

My main question, though, is where do you guys get these vocab words from?
Some people said, "I learn a word instead of its individual kanji". I think I'll like this method, but how would one go about finding words/sentences to learn? Is there some "reccommended vocab list" for JPLT, or do you guys consult dictionaries or use some other way that I don't know?

I haven't actually seen a book on learning the kanji readings that doesn't have vocabulary words. RTK2 does, as has been mentioned. The advantage of Core2k is that it has sentences to learn, which is useful, because you see the word in a fairly common context.