Erm, what would you suggest my grammatical level to be after completing Genki 2? Unfortunately my library cannot buy the "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese" (for preparing JLPT3 at last; after THAT Chukyuu kara manabu, as Toberoth suggested) by the JapanTimes but all books of Minna no Nihongo (also the 'chukyuu' one). Unfortunately I have made bad experiences with amazon, therefore I wanted to ask if it would be - grammatically seen - ok to 'switch' to the Minna no Nihongo series..
Thanks for any suggestions and recommendations as always! \o

We use those in class, they're easy to understand but honestly boring as *****. I looked over the JLPT practice tests on their website, and 5th and 4th were easy, 3rd one had grammar I hadn't seen yet, and I'm half way through (chapter 40 Minna no Nihongo 2) hope that gives some idea. I'd say I could prob do half of the JLPT 3 and struggle the other half judging by the example questions.

I had a quick check online and it looks to me like Genki I&II cover about the same ground as Minna no Nihongo I&II. So if you already have both volumes of Genki I don't think you need to go back over the same ground there.

My classification of the grammar level you're at when you've finished MnN I&II (and by extension Genki I&II) is that it's where I put the boundary between "beginner" and "intermediate". You've got enough structures to get your meaning across, even if it's not what a native speaker would naturally say. Other people may vary on what they call "intermediate", though.

Thanks pm215. As far as I recognised MnN2 starts introducing a bit of keigo (? dunno if that's useful. I mean knowing keigo as a beginner/low intermediate). Well, it does not matter really, does it?

What would you guys suggest me doing now? I mean, I need a "grammar book" rather than a textbook, as I'm learning my vocabs straight forward with core6k (and afterwards the rest with KO2001). What do you think about exercises? I recognised that Genki at least had a lot which were difficult/dumb to do on my own with a partner. Generally I hate doing these partner tasks with myself (schizophrenic kind of).

Would '200 Essential Japanese Expression' or the '500 Essential Japanese Expression' a good choice? And if so, which one for a "low intermediate" as pm215 said?


Edit: Gnah.. I cannot find the thread where the posts were linked in which users explained their study methods. -.-
Tobberoth (I guess) was it who said that he plainly reached N2 after 1) Minna no nihongo series 2) Chukyuu kara manabu. If that's the *case* would you recommend me after the genki series doing the same? (grammatically seen.. grammar is, besides listening, my biggest problem. I have virtually no problems remembering vocabulary and reading it aloud + understanding.)

Tori-kun Wrote:Thanks pm215. As far as I recognised MnN2 starts introducing a bit of keigo

Yes. So does Genki II, judging from its contents page.

Ops.. Didn't even recognise o0 (see the edit above) Good to know

*push*

Since I'm slowly approaching the end of the workbook of Genki 2 to comprehend grammar better (using it actually besides just skipping/reading it), I would like to know about the next step towards the intermediate level.
Since I have no possibility obtaining the next book of the JapanTimes called "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese", I would like to know your recommendations (see the list above.. I can get those books in my library/from friends in my town) on a book:

* Chuukyuu kara manabu
* Chuukyuu wo manabou
* Nihongo Chuukyuu J301
* New Approach Japanese Intermediate 1
* Chuukyuu e ikou

(@Toberoth: I read you did the grammar work with the first book listed here. Would you recommend me using it already after Genki 2? Or would there be some grammar missing?)

Would be good to have an alternative besides "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese", ensuring more or less a neatless continuation concerning grammatical aspects needed for JLPT tests (I'm orientating myself looking at the requirements of the JLPT, as it's easier). Thanks for replies!! \o

Quote:Since I have no possibility obtaining the next book of the JapanTimes called "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese"

If that's the book you want, I'll bet I could hook you up with a copy. I know a lot of people who have it and would probably be willing to give it up. PM me if your interested and I'll see if I can hook you up.

If you could post some ISBN numbers, or some links, it would make it easier for us to know which books you're talking about, or we could look at them online faster... but...

If your goal is the JLPT, then I would grab all 5 textbooks from the library/friends, and just pick the one you like best. It doesn't really matter much which one you use, because they'll all have gaps in coverage.

The best book is going to be the one you consistently use. I'm a firm believer that there is no best book or best method for learning Japanese, because we've all come here trying different stuff. Whatever keeps you working every day will get you there best.

That said, you're going to need extra books to cover all the material that will be on the JLPT, because most textbooks just aren't geared to cover it all.

If you're aiming for JLPT N4, I like the old Kanzen Master 3級 grammar book. (Old 3級 = new N4.) ISBN 978-4-88319-354-7. Use it along with whatever textbook you wind up picking. (You'll probably have to buy it used, but it's cheap.) It's a good overview of what you should know coming out of the "beginner" level. Maybe pick up an N4 book as well at some point to see if they changed anything.

If you're aiming towards N3, then the Unicom N3 grammar book is good, too. ISBN 978-4-89689-469-1. Runs about $28 at Kinokuniya New York, 1600 Yen in Japan.

Tori-kun Wrote:I can get those books in my library/from friends in my town) on a book:

* Chuukyuu kara manabu
* Chuukyuu wo manabou
* Nihongo Chuukyuu J301
* New Approach Japanese Intermediate 1
* Chuukyuu e ikou

New Approach is OK, although perhaps a little dull. I think it works best in a classroom format as it's rather short on explanations (we used it at Yamasa); if you use it for self study you'll need a second grammar reference (Do*JG or something) to look up detail and explanation. It follows on reasonably well after MnN II. NA 1 & 2 together cover the core of JLPT2, although there are some minor gaps to fill in, as rich_f says ("easy" grammar/sentence patterns, mostly. Kanzen Master or some other JLPT-oriented grammar revision book, plus a grammar reference will do for these.)

Having said that, if you can borrow all of these for free then I'd suggest you get them all at once and look through them to see which you like the look of. Then return the rest and carry on with the one you liked best. You're actually in a much better position to answer your own question than most of us, because there won't be many people reading this who've actually been able to look at all the books on your list and compare them.

@rich_f: I have printed out a copy of the old Unicom JLPT 3kyuu grammar reference and it's really good as everything is entirely explained in Japanese and it's indeed a wonderfull addition to the Genki textbook work (for looking things up without reading dozen of paragraphs for the sake of 'completeness' like in DoBJG f.e.). I do not have the "new" (N) books, but the old JLPT 2kyuu one, so that would do also the job as a preparation for N3 somewhen..

@Asriel: See Pm. Thanks in advance for the offering.
@pm: Right.. I see if I can get the one Asriel offered me somehow, assuring less loss/gaps concerning grammar and so on. (On the other hand, I would learn the grammar I miss anyway with the Unicom books.. I found them thanks to bobbyj, btw.)

Lots of good advice on this thread. Thanks!

Another thing to try (and I'm going to try soon, as the N2 is coming up an about 2 months), is to take those Kanzen Master problem sets, scan them with something like e.Typist or Yondeココ!, and turn them into Anki flashcards. (Same goes for the better problems in the textbooks.)

Both programs have 30-day "try before you buy" versions (but both are in Japanese.) Not sure if they'll run without full-on JP Windows, though. :\ (That's why I'm trying first.)

They have much more robust feature sets than ReadIris Asian, and you can get both for around 13,000 yen online if you're not too picky. (Download version of Yondeココ!, and the EN/JP only version of e.Typist.)

Yondeココ! Demo:
http://ai2you.com/ocr/product/koko13/trial02.asp

e.Typist HomePage:
http://mediadrive.jp/products/et/index.html

@rich_f Yeah, the kanzen master series seems to be quite indepth, both grammar and drill and since my actual aim was jlpt2 by this year 2011, i will go for the series, too.