ta12121 Wrote:definitely uncalled for

I don't agree. I served in the military, so my opinion is from one who has been a part of that culture. What we are doing over there is evil. Japan has a history of suicide as a way of making amends for dishonor. The monsters committing acts like this could learn something from their example.

I might read that book. It looks kind of interesting... a few members of my family have commited suicide and a few more attempted it. Hence the interst in reading the book, no personal desire to top myself, just a curious read. Though it's not the kind of book you want a friend finding in your room

Bodhisamaya's comments are spot on. Most appropriate.

Tori-kun Wrote:I mean it's incredible o0 My wife just told me even children in kindergarten/primary school committed suicide, as far as she remembered! Woah.. kids, don't. Don't do it.

i can't even imagine what would make a child that young kill themselves, bullying included. i think it's very rare, but still, it suggests that suicide is an idea that is quite deeply ingrained / widespread culturally for children that young to even be able to think of the idea.

btw, there are also suicide manuals in english. But i don't advocate sending them to troops in Afghanistan. Probably they would only choose the most painful method and use it as a torture method...

btw, what do you think about the suicide ads? the first one i saw i thought was lame, but actually i quite liked the "are you sleeping ok?" one. Although, it'd have more use in preventing further cases in the long term than saving anyone who was at that point right now, i guess.

Although, apparently going to your normal doctor wouldn't help so much anyway, i heard when i was in Japan that normal doctors can't prescribe anything for brain problems, you have to then be referred to another doctor (same for things like ADHD, etc.) is that true? If it is, maybe they want to rethink that 1st...

IceCream Wrote:i can't even imagine what would make a child that young kill themselves, bullying included. i think it's very rare, but still, it suggests that suicide is an idea that is quite deeply ingrained / widespread culturally for children that young to even be able to think of the idea.

Kids are just that, kids. They do stupid things all the time to gain experience, however in case of suicide it tends to be their last. I really don't see a difference when a 10yo decides to kill himself over some bully, a teenager because her boyfriend dumped her/he failed to get a drivers license or an adult with a family that just couldn't cope with being the head of the family. They're all stupid reasons, every reason is stupid, nothing justifies killing yourself just for the sake of being dead (I exclude suicide missions etc.).

But having said that I don't view suicide as something horrible, if a person is not fit to make rational decisions it benefits society if he/she excludes his/her genes from the gene pool. Mother nature at her finest. Its bad if its an adult running away from problems&family, thats just a coward and scum that deserves far worse than death.

thurd Wrote:But having said that I don't view suicide as something horrible, if a person is not fit to make rational decisions it benefits society if he/she excludes his/her genes from the gene pool. Mother nature at her finest. Its bad if its an adult running away from problems&family, thats just a coward and scum that deserves far worse than death.

Don't you dare call people who have attempted or committed suicide because of what you call "problems&family" as being "coward and scum that deserves far worse than death". YOU don't know what problems any particular individual is facing. They might have a psychological issue that is contributing to their feeling of being overwhelmed.

vinniram Wrote:

thurd Wrote:But having said that I don't view suicide as something horrible, if a person is not fit to make rational decisions it benefits society if he/she excludes his/her genes from the gene pool. Mother nature at her finest. Its bad if its an adult running away from problems&family, thats just a coward and scum that deserves far worse than death.

Don't you dare call people who have attempted or committed suicide because of what you call "problems&family" as being "coward and scum that deserves far worse than death". YOU don't know what problems any particular individual is facing. They might have a psychological issue that is contributing to their feeling of being overwhelmed.

That's right. Not having any empathy doesn't mean you can just dismiss human misery.

vinniram Wrote:

thurd Wrote:But having said that I don't view suicide as something horrible, if a person is not fit to make rational decisions it benefits society if he/she excludes his/her genes from the gene pool. Mother nature at her finest. Its bad if its an adult running away from problems&family, thats just a coward and scum that deserves far worse than death.

Don't you dare call people who have attempted or committed suicide because of what you call "problems&family" as being "coward and scum that deserves far worse than death". YOU don't know what problems any particular individual is facing. They might have a psychological issue that is contributing to their feeling of being overwhelmed.

yeah. what you said is just insanely ignorant. Please rethink your position. This conversation has been had before on these boards, so unless your particularly interested, i won't bother to repeat it.

The reason i said that about children specifically is that depression usually shows itself in different ways in children, i would think it's actually really rare for a child to feel suicidal the way teenagers and adults can because of depression.

Interesting coincidence. Took this picture 30 minutes ago

vinniram Wrote:Don't you dare call people who have attempted or committed suicide because of what you call "problems&family" as being "coward and scum that deserves far worse than death". YOU don't know what problems any particular individual is facing. They might have a psychological issue that is contributing to their feeling of being overwhelmed.

It so happens that I knew a few people who did successfully commit suicide precisely because of the reasons I stated (except for that 10yo). None of them were even slightly mentally unstable, it was just their decision (a selfish one that left their families shattered). Mental illness is great because you can explain almost any erratic human behavior by some kind of illness when in fact such person is perfectly fine, except for that one episode.

EratiK Wrote:That's right. Not having any empathy doesn't mean you can just dismiss human misery.

So having empathy for people they left behind with even more problems than before suicide is not having empathy and dismissing human misery? Excuse me for being worried about the living...

IceCream Wrote:yeah. what you said is just insanely ignorant. Please rethink your position. This conversation has been had before on these boards, so unless your particularly interested, i won't bother to repeat it.

The reason i said that about children specifically is that depression usually shows itself in different ways in children, i would think it's actually really rare for a child to feel suicidal the way teenagers and adults can because of depression.

Ignorant? Seriously? Just because I happen to have a different opinion on some matter doesn't mean I'm ignorant. I could very well attach such label to your way of thinking and just call it a day, how about that?

[ファブリス]

Just fyi, we already have an "army" thread somewhere...

ファブリス Wrote:Just fyi, we already have an "army" thread somewhere...

I know, I know. Thats why I consider this discussion finished. We don't always have to agree on everything.

thurd Wrote:

IceCream Wrote:yeah. what you said is just insanely ignorant. Please rethink your position. This conversation has been had before on these boards, so unless your particularly interested, i won't bother to repeat it.

The reason i said that about children specifically is that depression usually shows itself in different ways in children, i would think it's actually really rare for a child to feel suicidal the way teenagers and adults can because of depression.

Ignorant? Seriously? Just because I happen to have a different opinion on some matter doesn't mean I'm ignorant. I could very well attach such label to your way of thinking and just call it a day, how about that?

yeah, incredibly ignorant. Well, feel free to attach any label to me you feel like, but i'm pretty sure i've experienced some of this stuff much more close hand than you appear to have.

Firstly, if you know someone that committed suicide because her boyfriend didn't get his driving license, probably she had much worse mental problems than depression.

About the other examples, someone's boyfriend dumping them, someone couldn't handle being the head of a household, i don't know the exact situations, but...
These kind of "reasons" aren't really the reason they killed themselves. They're nice, clean cut explanations that actually don't really tell you anything about the way that person was feeling. And i certainly doubt that in the case of the adult, that they were "perfectly fine" apart from that decision. Did they wake up one day and just think, "man, i'm a little sick of being head of a household, maybe i'll jump off a bridge"...?!?!

Maybe they don't act erratically in normal situations, but there's clearly something underlying that makes people react in such a manner to situations that wouldn't cause the same result in another person. I doubt that difference is a lack of logical ability. Most likely it's the result of a significantly different type of feeling to one you have ever felt, and hopefully never will. But don't pour scorn on other people just because you personally haven't experienced something, and then claim it's not ignorance.

I believe that the case is that once your body chemistry is such that you feel bad enough, you can't bear it anymore, and you start thinking of a way to stop it.

I have felt utter depression just because of falling in love and waiting and I have to say that it was really unbearable. And imo it's no ones fault that your body chemistry is such that at one point you start to act differently. Many events can change your mood and sometimes it just happens so that you feel depressed. It doesn't mean that people should say really provocative things/react negatively imo.

In some cases it's no use trying to say things like "calm down" or "it's a stupid reason" because it rarely helps in situations when your chemistry is in a bad conditition.

It's interesting how suicide can really affect people. Reading through the comments here I can see that a lot of people have a lot of thoughts and strong feelings on the matter.

Personally, I feel that its sad to see so many people commit suicide these days. Life is definitely interesting enough to keep on wanting to see what happens next (or at least for me); hence, it worries me a bit to see people giving up on life and, instead of opting for change, opting out of life.

I guess you could say that life treated these people badly or they treated themselves badly or others treated them badly or they were just ill in the head. Probably all of the above is true for most of us even if we don't decide to kill ourselves at some point in our lives. I guess everyone reacts differently.

Considering the OPs orginal question, I think I have said I haven't seen any pamphlets and whatnot about. Probably a question that needs asking is would the extra awareness breed more of the same or change the path of those on their way to a nasty accident. Perhaps, yes and, perhaps, no, I think. Japanese people are quite aware of the facts surrounding suicide in my impression. Young to old, everyone knows about the deaths that stop trains or the other things people get up to. I guess you could say that people here are aware and unaware at the same time, in a way.

Anyway, no idea what I mean right now, so I'll leave it at that.

# The above is just my opinion. People disagree or agree with me if you like. Everyone feels differently and I would love to hear what you think too.