Did anyone try the Midori iPhone app? It looks like the development on the Japanese app has stopped, and there are bugs abound, so I'm thinking about spending another 10 bucks and switching over, especially for the handwriting input feature.

But I would like to get some opinions before I throw more money away

Thanks!

What bugs?

fakewookie Wrote:What bugs?

The most annoying is that the component/skip input doesn't work most of the time. There are also assorted problems with screen transitions and line break handling (these aren't show-stoppers, but display a general lack of commitment towards polishing the app).

I sent the author a couple of emails with longer bug lists, but he didn't even bother to respond.

I got it after reading your post and checking the web site. I bought it because of text translation feature, which seems really nice on the iPad version:

http://www.jitouch.com/midori/features.php
"The Translate tab lets you translate multiple words from Japanese text in just one tap. Just copy text from Japanese newspapers or your favorite websites into Midori and tap the Translate button. The vocaburary list will be generated. Tap a word in the left pane to see the definition on the right pane, which will also scroll to the line you tap."

I've used Wakaru for some texts, but this one is a lot easier because word selecting was quite difficult in Wakaru.

iPhone version of text "translation" doesn't have the vocabulary list, instead you get definition of marked words on new screen by touching the word.

Can't say anything about other features yet.

Do you mean the codefromtokyo Japanese app? I've been wanting to switch to something better as well. I don't like that it doesn't have separate entries for kanji and vocabulary words that are only made up of one kanji.

One thing I like about the Midori app is it gives a certified example sentence for each definition are listed (if the sentence exists), in order of the definitions listed.

Midori looks smooth, but Wakaru has 縦書き options for reading and Rikaichan-like functionality for web browsing. Does Midori have this? I haven't tried it. Personally I also prefer the pop-up rather than sidebar definitions.

http://www.jitouch.com/midori/features.php

haha spelling mistake spotted already in the first sentence What haragana?

Quote:Midori has a native Japanese handwriting recognition that can recognize kanji and haragana. It is the most convenient way to find kanjis that you have never seen.

I hope their dictionary definitions will be better than that!

It looks good on the iPad though.

Code from Tokyo Japanese has no iPad support and it feels much more basic now, however I use it a lot. No problems with bugs on my 2nd gen ipod touch. Works like a charm and it is very easy to look up kanji and to send myself dictionary lists per email etc. Small easy portable and good definitions.

marcmiddag Wrote:http://www.jitouch.com/midori/features.php

haha spelling mistake spotted already in the first sentence What haragana?

I have seen harigana also somewhere

nest0r Wrote:Midori looks smooth, but Wakaru has 縦書き options for reading and Rikaichan-like functionality for web browsing. Does Midori have this? I haven't tried it. Personally I also prefer the pop-up rather than sidebar definitions.

Thank you for the tip. The ebook reader looks phenomenal! I am almost sold

nest0r Wrote:Midori looks smooth, but Wakaru has 縦書き options for reading and Rikaichan-like functionality for web browsing. Does Midori have this? I haven't tried it. Personally I also prefer the pop-up rather than sidebar definitions.

As far I know, Wakaru is a web browser and e-reader with a built-in dictionary, whereas Midori is a standalone dictionary. Therefore, I doubt that Midori has the features that you asked about.

Anyway, thanks to those who pointed out both of these apps! I was disappointed when I found out that the CodeFromTokyo Japanese app doesn't have iPad support, and I've just been using jisho.org since I first started using my iPad. It's frustrating to have no dictionary access when I have no wifi, however. Fortunately, Midori seems like a good solution to my frustrations. Likewise, Wakaru seems like it'll come in handy when I start reading more. I feel lucky that I found this forum. It's a gold mine for resources.

@vileru - Yes, I was just getting ready to add an edit to my comment that it's not a reader/browser pop-up. The comparison to Wakaru in an above comment threw me off till I more closely analyzed the Midori page and then reread the comment. I see that the Translate tab is for pasting text and then parsing it. It does, however, as uutela notes, have pop-ups rather than sidebar for iPhone/iPod Touch (presumably to account for the smaller screen), so that's good.

Personally I can't get excited about new dictionaries, only improved reader functions/pop-up definition integration.

Edit: I do like that there's that text-parsing tool, though. The scratch pad stuff also seems cool. I love that it's becoming customary for Japanese apps to have this implementation.

Teresina Wrote:One thing I like about the Midori app is it gives a certified example sentence for each definition are listed (if the sentence exists), in order of the definitions listed.

What do you mean by certified?

marcmiddag Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:Midori looks smooth, but Wakaru has 縦書き options for reading and Rikaichan-like functionality for web browsing. Does Midori have this? I haven't tried it. Personally I also prefer the pop-up rather than sidebar definitions.

Thank you for the tip. The ebook reader looks phenomenal! I am almost sold

I haven't used it much, to be honest (because I underuse my iPod Touch for Japanese). I have also found, as someone mentioned, that selecting words can be difficult, with the finger. Thankfully I use a Targus/Boxwave/Griffin capacitive stylus (I mention them all because they are the same except for the branding) so precision selection of words is easier (plus Wakaru automatically selects words as you move the magnifying lens over them). The dictionary also feels limited, relatively speaking. Not sure which one it uses, though.

The developer seems on the ball, though (except recently due to the earthquake), re: features/bugs: http://wakaruapp.blogspot.com/ (They just fixed the bug mentioned in the latest entry.)

Edit: I should say that selecting words can be difficult with the finger when using the browser; ebooks are much easier, perhaps somehow related to the ‘indexing’?

I love everything about Midori. It's perfect for that quick look up on the go, or if I'm going to read a particularly challenging news article and I know there will be 2~3 words I won't get, I'll just use translate. It's especially good on the iPad, but works well on the iPhone/pod as well.

Highly recommended.

Finally I took the plunge, and so far I don't regret spending the money.

But... it's frustrating that between Kotoba, Japanese and Midori each has a couple of killer features that the other ones lack.

Off the top of my head:
Kotoba: the SKIP (but really hybrid radical-SKIP) kanji lookup is awesome, conjugations are useful. Unfortunately word lists are missing, and example sentences are very clumsy (too much romaji, no "jump" feature). Also, can't "de-conjugate" if you enter a conjugated form. (These two shortcomings were the reason I bought Japanese.) No handwriting recognition.
Japanese: Favorite lists are good, but it's very cumbersome to get to them in the menu. Conjugations are useful. Biggest missing thing (the reason I bought Midori) is handwriting recognition. The way it combines the kanji with the single kanji words can be a bit confusing.
Midori: Has handwriting recognition (but the canvas is a bit too big which makes the workflow clumsy) and pretty good favorite lists/history. De-conjugation works much better than Japanese. But: lacks conjugations, and some info (like Heisig number, stroke animations) for the Kanji. No SKIP or radical lookup that I could find. Also there is no word-compound list, only kanji compounds are shown.

I downloaded Midori, but have found the hand-writing recognition frustratingly poor. Often doesn't seem to find the character I'm tracing?

Anyone else find the same, or is it just my writing?

aphasiac Wrote:Anyone else find the same, or is it just my writing?

It is extremely sensitive to stroke order and stroke count, but other than that it seems to work OK for me. Can you give some examples of which characters don't work?

子 ()

Also I tried looking up a couple of kanjis I didn't know from Heisig (嘘 is the only one i remember) and couldn't get them.

I guess it's my writing - but I've never had an issue before, using that japanese dictionary on DS.

aphasiac Wrote:子 ()

Also I tried looking up a couple of kanjis I didn't know from Heisig (嘘 is the only one i remember) and couldn't get them.

I guess it's my writing - but I've never had an issue before, using that japanese dictionary on DS.

Yep, it's the stroke count sensitivity thing I mentioned. You must be writing ko with 2 strokes instead of 3. The stroke order for uso isn't all that trivial either, but midori recognized it for me on the first try...

The "real" handwriting recognition modules (such as those in DS software and denshi jishos) are usually trained on a dataset collected from dozens of actual people, so they are capable of recognizing all the common variations, not just the official form. Variations can range from writing 子 or 阝 with 2 strokes instead of three all the way to writing a complex kanji with a single curving stroke. I've seen some astonishingly good hwr engines that could even discern Chinese cursive writing that looks like a Rorshcach blot to anyone who wasn't born in China.

I'm assuming that Midori uses the open stroke order database, which only has the perfect characters, not the real life ones. It's a shame considering that a good, professional handwriting recognition engine could be licensed for a few cents per copy, easily covered by the App's sale price.

Finally! I've been waiting for a replacement for Code from Tokyo Japanese, which has really been really annoying me lately.

As far as I can tell the entries have no logical order. Enter とき and 時 "time, hour" is the 8th entry, after four for とく (because of the conjugation), then とき "regular (stops at every station) Jouetsu Shinkansen", トキ "Japanese crested ibis", and 斎 "purification, Buddhist food, etc". This last is so obscure that I had to enter the on-yomi (サイ) in order to type the kanji. Also, the example sentences are often bizarre, the HWR is frustrating, and the SKIP lookup is hit or miss.

Midori looks a LOT better, especially for the iPad. Check out the website (linked above) for lots more screen shots than the iTunes app store. I'm going for it. Now I need an iPad.

Oh, and thanks for the tip about stroke order and Japanese HWR.

kerecsen Wrote:Kotoba: No handwriting recognition.

Actually, I just discovered a few minutes ago that Kotoba! *does* have handwriting recognition (well, based on Chinese traditional characters, but I tried it briefly and it seemed to work well).

I have an IPod Touch; if you go into Settings > General > International > Keyboards > Add New Keyboards and select Chinese Traditional - Handwriting, you can make use of handwriting recognition. I actually saw this tip while browsing App store reviews for Kotoba! Apparently this will work as well for the Japanese app (per the App store blurb; I don't have the Japanese app myself).

From there it's just a matter of going to the Kotoba! search screen, clicking in the search area, and hitting the little "globe-like" icon at the bottom. This automatically takes you to a little tablet where you can trace kanji, which is automatically entered into the search field.

kerecsen Wrote:Kotoba: Unfortunately word lists are missing [...]

Out of curiosity, when you say "word lists are missing", do you mean pre-made word lists or lists that you can create yourself? You can add any word to the Favorites list or create your own lists and add words to them by hitting the little star in the top right-hand corner for a given word. You can then e-mail the lists to yourself. But I'm guessing this isn't what you're referring to....

I've been using Kotoba! for quite some time but hadn't really checked out the features closely. Two other things I just noticed, which I'm sure everyone already knows:

1) You can get a listing of ru/masu conjugations in kanji, kana, and romaji for a given verb by clicking on the little arrow next to the Godan/Ichidan classification under the Meaning section. Same goes for adjectives (i/na classification under the Meaning section).

2) When looking at information for a given kanji (the screen that gives you readings, stroke order, etc.,) you can get a listing of kanji compounds associated with that kanji by hitting View kanji compounds under the Miscellaneous section.

Now all I need to figure out is how to do wildcard searches (if it's possible), and the app is near perfect for my purposes. The only thing missing for me is being able to search using verbs in their conjugated forms.

Anyway, thanks for the app comparison/rundown.

Wait. Can you not login to your Reviewing the Kanji website account and sync it? This app is pretty worthless if you cant. Im not going to maintain two separate sets of flashcards.

Is this thread still relevant? Sorry, I was wondering if anyone who uses both Midori and Japanese could explain the difference between the two in terms of actually use. Being a Japanese user right now, I feel that Midori seems a bit lightweight from looking at the screen shots. Am I right? I would try Midori if it were actually better.

mgbp7 Wrote:

kerecsen Wrote:Kotoba: No handwriting recognition.

Actually, I just discovered a few minutes ago that Kotoba! *does* have handwriting recognition (well, based on Chinese traditional characters, but I tried it briefly and it seemed to work well).

That is the iOS built-in handwriting recognition, and while it is useful in a pinch, it's not reliable, as the coverage is far from complete, and sometimes the stroke orders differ from Japanese. Also, it's not particularly robust compared to a denshi jisho. And to add insult to injury, you have to switch back-and-forth between the handwriting recognition to enter kanji, and the japanese keyboard to enter the hiragana word endings.

mgbp7 Wrote:

kerecsen Wrote:Kotoba: Unfortunately word lists are missing [...]

Out of curiosity, when you say "word lists are missing", do you mean pre-made word lists or lists that you can create yourself? You can add any word to the Favorites list or create your own lists and add words to them by hitting the little star in the top right-hand corner for a given word. You can then e-mail the lists to yourself. But I'm guessing this isn't what you're referring to....

I meant both pre-made (JLPT, common words, etc.) and Favorites. I didn't remember that it had either, but if it now has Favorites, I stand corrected.