[ファブリス]

caivano Wrote:Guys were already patching it up at the shopping center there.

You gotta admit it's pretty freaky though To see the very ground we stand on move like that. I had never heard of soil liquefaction before, though that is apparently a common occurence with earthquakes.

This is the first one I saw. Freaked me out: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RB...directlink

There was this video called "stop the hysteria!" around and when I watched i turned somewhat sad. It seemed at first that everything is exaggerated etc. etc. and that especially the German media is making a huge drama and 'spectacular' event out of it.
Yesterday I saw a documentary on TV and the professor said, concerning the action of Edano eating a tomato (not being contaminated*.. as the Geiger-Mueller instrument told him, aha). The point is these instreuments only measure substsances being gamma-emitters - not the more poisenous and dangerous** alpha and beta once.

* certainly it was.. Enough alpha and beta emitters. But who the heck cares?
** they are really dangerous, because once you "eat" and "drink" them along with food and water they'll remain in the human organism forever and will constantly radiate (-> cancer rate increases)

I was sad, too, because it made me realize that it's not just internet conversations, but all attempts at sharing accurate and timely information is being drowned by sensationalism or lists of inaccurate information designed solely to bolster fearful theses rather than edify, and hence messages that should be informative, supportive, and content-rich from experts and concerned citizens end up being pleas to stop the hysteria.

I feel bad, too, because I made the mistake of thinking I could post about something related to the tsunami/earthquake that wasn't about Fukushima. Of course I should've realized that a bump of this thread into the Recent Topics section would mean a back-and-forth for two pages about whether or not Fukushima is Chernobyl (or rather, what Chernobyl was mythologised as).

At any rate, enough snarky, futile metacommentary from me, I'm heading back out into the great web yonder to discuss recent events in Japan. Some people out there actually have the audacity to discuss Fukushima and the nuclear situation without proclaiming the end is nigh or referencing Chernobyl.

Tori-kun Wrote:Yesterday I saw a documentary on TV and the professor said, concerning the action of Edano eating a tomato (not being contaminated*.. as the Geiger-Mueller instrument told him, aha). The point is these instreuments only measure substsances being gamma-emitters - not the more poisenous and dangerous** alpha and beta once.

* certainly it was.. Enough alpha and beta emitters. But who the heck cares?
** they are really dangerous, because once you "eat" and "drink" them along with food and water they'll remain in the human organism forever and will constantly radiate (-> cancer rate increases)

Wrong on so many levels
-Cesium137 and Iodine131 were the released isotopes.
-Both are beta emitters, so why would all emergency workers etc be using geiger counters that "can only detect gamma"? They would detect nothing ever, but they are indeed detecting the BETA radiation.
-Geiger counters are indeed capable of detecting alpha, beta and gamma emitters, depending on the model. Are you sure the model he was using was not so equipped?
-Gamma rays are more dangerous than alpha or beta. Alpha are the least dangerous of the three.
-Cesium137 has a biological halflife of 70 days, meaning half of it will leave your body in 70 days. Iodine131 has a radioactive halflife of 8 days, so it'll be gone even sooner. They aren't stuck in you forever.
There are other radioactive elements with long halflives and that will be integrated into body structures, but by the definition of having a long halflife they don't emit as high quantities of radiation so you'll need a large quantity of the material to get a high dose. They are also very heavy and so will not travel very far from the point of release. Also, they weren't released.

Hooray, radiation can be understood and not mindlessly feared!

I can't tell if you are backing the documentary or taunting it, so feel free to read my post as correcting whoever believes those assertions

LazyNomad Wrote:Tzadeck, the problem is the situation is far from being over. I would be more calm, if there were not signs of the possibility of another strong quake in the area in the meantime. Another quake or tsunami can be deadly for the station in its current condition.

It's certainly possible that the containment could break more in the event of a disaster, be it from an earthquake or otherwise. But what exactly are you imagining as the worst case scenario? Something tells me it's different than what I imagine.

Worst case scenario is a large meteor 3km in diameter lands on dai-ichi and causes a mass-extinction of most life on earth.

Western media fails for focusing on dramatic possibilities instead of likely outcomes.

My experience with conservatives: They rush home from a 2 hour "fire and brimstone, end of days" sermon with a "Jesus is coming soon" sticker on their bumper to catch the end of the Dallas Cowboy game praying they cover the spread. Then, on Monday invest 20% of the week's income into a retirement fund and 20 year treasury bonds.

My experiences with liberals: Chant to each sunrise and sunset that there is no such thing as death and the entire universe is made up of light and love. Then soil their pants in fear while hiding under their beds with every new catastrophe scenario that hits the rumor mill.

Let me share with you the greatest week of my life... The week before the new millenium

I was working as a massage therapist in Maui and weekly attended all of the drum circles, sufi dances, and whatnot with all my "enlightened" friends. Everyone was going nuts over the Y2K bug and the computer problems that were going to lead to nuclear meltdowns sending 100 meter tsunamis all across the globe. I had a friend who ran a Tantric Sex retreat on the island and was flooded with students who had signed up the week before wanting to meditate on kundalini energy to propel them to a higher dimension during that imminent extinction of mankind.

I took vacation for the week and served as a volunteer for the retreat, even though I was convinced the fears were nonsense. Everyone at that retreat knew the world was ending that week, and as are most vegan hippie chicks with money, the women were all hot.

As is typical at Tantric sex retreats (for some reason) the women vastly outnumbered the men. For a week, it was a nonstop orgy; as close to being a god as anytime I have ever known. When January 1st, 2000 did not usher in an Earth void of human meddlers. There was widespread disappointment and shock. I went back to my job, (as far as I know, I was the only one who had a job to go back to) giddy with this orgasmic glow making my whole body light as a feather.

bodhi is just a lobbyist for the heathen orgy unshaved armpits industry.

Like I said, check for bias.

At the time the earthquake happened, the media were wildly overhyping and exaggerating the fukushima problem. On the basis of the information they had, there's no way they were right to do that.

On the other hand, as the situation has carried on, we've started seeing a bit more the extent of the problem. NOW the media should be able to report some of the risks a bit more fairly, because they have more information. Plus, anyway, the media circus has already moved onto some newer news, so it's been a bit more reliable for a little while now.

I would also like to see more sensible conversations on the longer lasting health risks and environmental problems that are expected from this level of radiation than arguments about whether this is just like chernobyl or not. It's not chernobyl, but it is still a big deal. It's not nothing...

And yeah, it's unlikely that many people are going to die from radiation, but death is probably the least scary thing about radiation... it's the increased cancer levels and other strange illnesses, the mutated genes, the land and animal farms that has to be written off for decades, and the people displaced. Many of the effects of that other (C-word) disaster were played down or written off because they didn't cause death (the UN report i saw lists only deaths). So, it's quite hard to evaluate these things.

At the beginning, it seems like the Japanese government were telling what they knew and taking the right actions to deal with the situation based on the information they had. But, this isn't an on / off thing. It may or may not have continued. I'd like to hear some more balanced opinions on whether that's continued... i haven't had time to follow it so much recently...

Jarvik7 Wrote:bodhi is just a lobbyist for the heathen orgy unshaved armpits industry.

Like I said, check for bias.

The couple who run the retreat (still operates) did charge all the participants the normal $1,000 fee per person for the week. I assume that meant I was not the only one not paying who did not believe the world was coming to an end. What good was that money going to do floating around the Pacific Ocean?

ファブリス Wrote:

caivano Wrote:Guys were already patching it up at the shopping center there.

You gotta admit it's pretty freaky though To see the very ground we stand on move like that. I had never heard of soil liquefaction before, though that is apparently a common occurence with earthquakes.

yep for sure. that's the reclaimed land from Tokyo Bay, I used to wanna live there.... not anymore. dont know if the 'soil liquification' is so dramatic on normal land..?

[ファブリス]

I don't want to discuss the finer points because I don't known enough about the situation. But I would like to be able to share links to interesting articles without having to argue whether the article is sensationalitstic or not. It's pretty much impossible to link to an article that doesn't have an attention grabbing headline. You're all really smart people who can make your own opinion. Perhaps this is not a forum to discuss in depth such topics as nestOr points out, but I still think the Koohii Lounge can be a good place simply to share links we found interesting.

Tzadeck Wrote:It's certainly possible that the containment could break more in the event of a disaster, be it from an earthquake or otherwise. But what exactly are you imagining as the worst case scenario? Something tells me it's different than what I imagine.

Good question. I can imagine different worst case scenarios, ranging from best worst case to worst worst case.
Best worst case is that a no-go zone will eventually be expanded up to 50-70 km and the restrictions to enter the zone will become permanent. Also restrictions on farming and fishery in most of Tohoku region will be enabled.
Worst worst case scenario is what the extinction protocol site warns about. Strangely, but I started to believe it.

Tori-kun Wrote:Yesterday I saw a documentary on TV and the professor said, concerning the action of Edano eating a tomato (not being contaminated*.. as the Geiger-Mueller instrument told him, aha). The point is these instreuments only measure substsances being gamma-emitters - not the more poisenous and dangerous** alpha and beta once.

You shouldn`t worry about that particular case. Quite contrary most radiation meters measures only alpha and beta radiation. Gamma-radiation is not the point of concern, as it is contamination, not nuclear explosion. Even inside nuclear fuel fabrication facilities gamma-radiation is not usually measured, as the probability that there is one is highly unlikely.

ファブリス Wrote:

LazyNomad Wrote:bodhisamaya, I have the opposite feeling. It is really irritating how some people disregard the situation even as it gets worse

That was exactly my feeling on this thread for the past two weeks or so.

Why only for the last two weeks? What happened two weeks ago?