I'm hoping to hear a bit of input from people on this idea. Basically, I have been brainstorming ways to reduce my SRS load even further on new cards. One of the ideas that I have come up with is 3 word cards (3 new words per card I mean.) Please have a look at the example I have added to this post. Has anyone done this? It would be the same mass of words (700 or so per week), but spaced onto 233 cards instead of 700. It usually takes me about 2 hours to format a deck that size into something usable. Most of the words also have their own sentences, if its from my anime listening project, but for the ones I don't have sentences for I would have to google.



There are probably 3 main issues:
#The need for a bit of cut and paste as their are three fields per card to allow for the keywords (new words) to be placed next to the sentence. This takes a bit more time. (I usually get sentences from google as I want something I can read reasonably well and Denshi is too small for that.)
#Getting examples isn't automated so it takes time.
#There is actually a hidden field on my decks that has the English definitions (one word), which I can look at if I can't instantly read the Sanseido definition, but for this I usually have to do two look ups to set it up.

With the 3 issues above can anyone help me with some solutions. If I could reduce things down to 233 cards that would be a beautiful situation (key presses on my iPhone are actually what slow me down once my main cram deck hits 4 days.)

According to the supermemo. SRS works best when things are kept as small and as simple as possible. After some personal experience playing around with varying level of detail in cards including non language learning I tend to concur with that sentiment.

I'm not sure what the saving is here... You have 1/3 the number of cards but each card takes 3 times as long to answer. On top of that, if you fail one, do you fail the entire card? Grouping facts as you are doing makes it impossible for the SRS to schedule them separately.

Also いとま is a pretty odd reading for 暇 isn't it?

I haven't started sentences yet so feel free to ignore me but:

if you really wanted to set up card like this maybe the three sentences should build off of eachother so

i+1=j
j+1=k
k+1=l

or same Grammar different vocab word. but I'd try to make the three sentences related.

eggcluck Wrote:According to the supermemo. SRS works best when things are kept as small and as simple as possible. After some personal experience playing around with varying level of detail in cards including non language learning I tend to concur with that sentiment.

I agree, the shorter the better. Although once you get used to using the srs. You'll start to increase the amount of context you put in(sentences). But I've found that there is no need to overdue it though.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "cramming?" If you're talking about Anki's cram mode, that's designed to freshen up memories for classroom test-taking. It is at best a waste of time for long-term learning because it interrupts the spacing effect that's the whole point of using a spaced review system.

If your cards are so easy that pressing buttons is your review bottleneck, you need to let them sit longer between reviews. Review is brain calisthenics: no effort, no gain.

On the other hand, if you're 100% sure you want to review the hell out of your words, spacing effect be damned, go ahead and put as many as you want on each card. You've already defeated the SRS, so it's not like scheduling is an issue.

It's very nice to see people experimenting.
But I guess that this method will not make you gain time or more efficiency.

When I read the title I thought, that every vocab card will have a 3 word example sentence, which I think wouldn't be such a bad idea

@wild

Cram 1 week everyday 700 words or less. After that let the spacing do it's thing. I have 96-98% recall on monthly cards. Anki's cram mode is a joke. It breaks my deck, lol. I do this because anki is useless for prelearning. All my stuff comes from my media/books, so I can see the results in less dictionary lookups. For some Anki's default spacing is no problem, but for me the initial instances are too long (even adjusted). I need it firmly in my head first. Anki wasn't built for everyone, I guess I don't fit the mold.

On the above, I'm going to try one week. Test and adjust.

Lol, don't forget to stretch first (just teasing)!

Cranks Wrote:For some Anki's default spacing is no problem, but for me the initial instances are too long (even adjusted). I need it firmly in my head first. Anki wasn't built for everyone, I guess I don't fit the mold.

I had this problem when I was adding random vocab or tokiwokakeru shoujo.

But after I found core I realized that the core format is very good. It let's you slowly build your way, and thanks to this the words are easier to remember after long intervals.

Even my vocab decks of chobits manga or random articles that I have read is hard to remember. I usually failed them a lot, and now I dumped all those bad decks (basically everything except core).

Maybe it's not the fault of software, but your cards are such that they don't let you to build your knowledge up logically?

Hmmm... I am willing to consider that. The thing is when I was reading your post, my iPhone started playing one of the FNN news audio clips I ripped off the video. My comprehension was around 70% (enough to understand quite a bit.) To be honest, I encountered that vocab about 2 weeks ago and I checked some of my cards they are around 1 week and a bit. Before I started taking everything from the world around me I was on Core and friends. I agree they are logical, but, I don't know, it just didn't work for me. My technique works for me.

I can read manga without look ups (admittedly, I repeatedly listen and read things, so my understanding is not always perfect the first time, but there's a big difference between looking up 10 words a page and 1 word every 4-5 pages.) I guess what I want to say is that I feel right now that everything is really on track. Things like Yomichan, Subs2srs, and learning from what you have around you, these things are my tools. I'm honestly, finally, moving forward, and that is worth the effort of 700 x 7 any day (aside from the fact that 700 x 52 = 36,400 words, that is.)

So...

Things I learned from this:

1) It's a good idea, but it's too much like adding sentences to your deck, which takes too long if you are bringing your vocabulary in from media/books and have to search for sentences to fit the new word you are using.

2) Format is unbelievably important. Adding color and using specific fonts for different fields influences the effect the cards have on you. I'm in love with some of the fonts epson has produced right now (they are also -3.1mb, which makes uploading them to Anki doable.) I plan to edit all of my decks to use similar formats.

3) You need to be VERY STRICT on yourself with vocabulary when not taken from a word list. Basically, some of the stuff I was adding I looked at and thought, "From the Kanji alone I know what this means... why bother SRSing something I can figure out?" This is important as it cuts down your workload.

4) You can drag and drop highlighted information into Anki from your web browser to Anki and the reverse. Why didn't I realize this before? It makes adding stuff so much easier!

5) 3 words is fine for me with the way I do things, but just working over the card takes too long in terms of adding three definitions and formatting. It's not worth the effort, unless you can write a plug-in or script to do this.

Edit: 5.1) Adding Japanese definitions is a great idea, but until someone releases a plug-in that can search sanseido, I'll give it a miss. Parsing the edict Eng-J ones is pretty simple given the format they use and the wonders of Excel. Hence, for non-subs2srs/books (say diary entry corrections, etc.), I'm stuck with Edict for now. That said, the Japanese definitions are fantastic! I didn't do it before, but if you are adding at a smaller amount than me per week or doing card adding on a daily basis and can read Japanese at a kids manga level then stop using Edict, sanseido is the way forward. Japanese to Japanese is so much easier to understand.

6) Excess: Tagging is very important, it let's you figure out where things are coming from and later you can cram (using Anki's cram mode) material you need on the spot (say my Pirates of the Caribbean book stuff. Also, 1 definition per word. I think I will try to start adding from material while at the computer, so I can add to Anki. When I'm reading I often add using my Japanese dictionary. This is Edict based and throws out a lot of definitions, which I then have to check through to find the right one. It's easier just to prop the book up and add as you go.

End Note
Why bother say this here? Well, I think that by sharing this observation I can help those that follow and those that are doing similar stuff. I guess I have taken so much from you that I feel I sort of have to give back a bit. Also, I think it really helps me as I will review this thread a bit later and it will remind me of what is important (just as reminding myself that the 700 x 7 works for me did above.) I guess sharing with our peers has a place in language learning, even if it is in English, lol.

Cranks Wrote:@wild

Cram 1 week everyday 700 words or less. After that let the spacing do it's thing.

Could you explain this a bit more? If the cram mode brakes your deck and the normal mode doesn't allow short enough intervals, how do you cram?

Separate deck.

oh ok, thanks.

No, problem. I generally download the deck on a daily basis and have the time settings quite low, so I can download it again. Additionally, if I need more practice on the first day I will mark the cards and cram mode them in Anki (it's fine as long as I don't review the last 5-6 cards - if I do it breaks the decks timings.)

I think it's a good idea for me, but, then again, with SRS there is no one way really. You sort of find what works and what doesn't. I think even at an advanced stage in SRS use, you still need to make changes and do different things. It's all about small changes.

(P.s., deleted 6000 JLPT cards today - feeling free!)