Heisig's method relies on writing the Kanji as part of the method to remember them. However nowadays, typing into computers and mobile phones have taken over from writing. Has anyone any ideas of how to adapt Heisig to reflect the modern reality?

You don't sound like you have any faith for the future of pen and paper.

Well, with computers at least, you type in the sounds and get the kanji out of it, right? And during RTK1 the readings aren't addressed at all. So, why would anything need to be adapted?

I see far too much handwritten kanji to agree with you, mukade. IMEs may have made a major mark on the kanji world, but if they ever replace pen and paper completely, it will be a long time from now.

some anecdotal evidence that trying to adapt the heisig method to IME technology may not be a step in the right direction...

even before finishing RTK1, i often found that i was better able to write a surprising number of the joyo kanji more quickly, more correctly, and more confidently than most of my japanese friends (with the exception of the kanji teacher at my school). this only occurs on the joyo kanji that are not very common of course, so it doesn't totally screw up their lives. but it happens quite frequently if i ask them a question about some kanji i just reviewed. this phenomenon is directly the result of japanese dependence on IMEs on computers and phones. there are similar reasons why native english speakers can't spell for crap anymore.

anyway, writing the kanji is a very important way of focusing the study on the primitives and their positions in the kanji. it requires the brain to do the work of producing the kanji from its constituent parts and further strengthens the mental ties by combining creative mental imagery, motor-skills, and symbol imagery and recognition. that's a lot of brain activity, and different types of brain activity to boot. anything i've ever seen worth anything on the subject of learning stresses the importance of engaging as many different parts of the brain as possible.

one wouldn't get that extra mental workout by passively using an IME. and if japanese people start to forget the kanji they learned natively because they use IME a lot, then just imagine how unhelpful a tool it could be to those just now learning the kanji...

[ファブリス]

I'll continue writing so I can play cool kanji games with the Nintendo DS pen

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Heisig suggest that you DON'T have to write the kanji that much to learn them (pg. 42, RTK 1, 5th edition). Now, what I do is what's suggested by the website, which is write it down prior to flipping the card to physically see the comparison. More a minor memory aid, as you only write as much as you keep getting it wrong. With normal flashcards on the train, I just used a finger in the air :^)

Still, compare what we do to when a native Japanese tries to remember how to write a Kanji. They hold out their palm, write on it with their finger very quickly, then either shake their head and say they don't know or nod and write it out with a pen. Akin to how I may not remember a phone number I've dialed alot, but somehow my fingers know where to go.

Nukemarine:

yes, you are correct about heisg's suggestion.

what heisig brings to the table over the traditional repetitive writing methods is the power of engaging the kanji with the creative visual imagination.

i am absolutely not implying that you have to drill the kanji by writing it a thousand times like traditional methods. if you are doing the heisig method, then writing it once when you make your story, and then writing it once again each time you review it (optimally through a spaced repetition system like this site uses) should be sufficient.

by the way, writing it with your finger on your palm is actually better for building your visual memory. but it is not so good if you are working on refining your pennmanship as some advanced users are on this site.

anyway, if writing each kanji that extra time during a spaced review amplifies the memory effect of the review, why resist taking that extra moment of time and energy?

decamer0n Wrote:there are similar reasons why native english speakers can't spell for crap anymore.

Hey, the only reason my spelling is so bad is because I don't read as much as I used to. And that's a grammar error, not a spelling one.

On topic, I understand Nukemarine's question: Heisig says not to write kanji over and over again, yet we ultimately end up doing just that via spaced repetition. After all, in theory, if the story was strong enough, you wouldn't need to review, ever.

I prefer to see it as a story for learning the kanji and then using spaced repetition to make the kanji second nature. It is very much akin to rote, but the initial learning phase is much more efficient, thus allowing one to gain the benefits of rote with only the slightest of time investments.

Oh, yeah, and my handwriting sucks.

I think writing is important because your brain works on so many different levels.

I'm sure seeing a kanji vs. writing a kanji vs. reciting a story get different parts of the brain fired up. And that they all reinforce each other to help you remember the kanji.

Writing a kanji 30 times in a row as per the brute force method is inefficient. But if you end up writing a kanji 10 times over a year with spaced repetition, that is much more reasonable. And it's much better that having never written it at all.

I don't think pen and paper are likely to disappear soon and I think there is a pleasure in writing any language just for it's own sake. I like to use an old fountain pen to increase the pleasure of writing kanji.

Perhaps my question is better aimed at the next stage of Heisig, RTKII. Then there is a case for learning the Japanese readings using the Japanese phonetics system, either by using Hiragana or Romaji because however pleasing it is to use a pen, everyday demands force us to use an IME or computer.

Are you asking if it might be better to study using romaji since you use romaji in an IME? If so, that sounds like a dreadful idea to me. Kana is the phonetic system of Japanese and romaji is to be avoided at all times except when you are typing in an IME.

I don't see how RTKII really relates to writing. I thought it was mostly about using a lot of flashcards.