Country: Egypt
Sample design: Multi-stage cluster sample stratified by all four regions (excluding Frontier governorates for security reasons – less than 2% of the population) proportional to population size and urban/rural population
Mode: Face-to-face adults 18 plus
Languages: Arabic
Fieldwork dates: April 12 – May 3, 2010
Sample size: 1,000
Margin of Error: ±4.0
Representative: Adult population

Country:Iraq
Language:Arabic
Status:lots of nuclear weapons and bad terrorists there....

phantombk201 Wrote:First of all,let me explain something...over 40% of Egyptian people are in poverty,if your are poor in this country,you have about zero chance of getting good education,if any at all,that's why about the same % of people can't even read or write.Islam or not,without any form of education,this kind of stupidity will exist...now i hope that will change soon.

Exactly

phantombk201 Wrote:Second,i seriously doubt those numbers,there are extremists here but they do not have as much power as the CNN or whatever other media you watch is trying to show you...you don't live here,i do.

Of course they don't have power. They never have. There is no democracy in Egypt. The point I am trying to make is that if Egypt becomes a "democracy" than the laws of Egypt will be changed to more closely reflect the views of the Egyptian people.

These are positions the Egyptian people want to make law. Is it really "democracy" when the people running the country have to tell the 75% of Egyptians who want to put to death someone who converts to Buddhism to go ***** off with their extremism?

Womacks23 Wrote:These are positions the Egyptian people want to make law. Is it really "democracy" when the people running the country have to tell the 75% of Egyptians who want to put to death someone who converts to Buddhism to go ***** off with their extremism?

it's a bit rich coming out with statements like this based on what... one survey?? or do you actually have a good knowledge of Egypt?

Womacks23 Wrote:These are positions the Egyptian people want to make law. Is it really "democracy" when the people running the country have to tell the 75% of Egyptians who want to put to death someone who converts to Buddhism to go ***** off with their extremism?

I think if you polled people in Alabama whether they would they support such a bill for Christians who wanted to convert to Islam, the numbers might be very similar.

thecite Wrote:From what I've read, the Egyptians who started and fuelled the demonstrations, namely the younger population, are extremely open minded and support a secular democracy. Certainly not fundamentalists calling for stoning over lechery and apostasy.
But only time will tell how it plays out.

Even the older generation had their part to play, they once saw a just Egypt before the west lay its seeds of imperialist control, the moment Nasser died, the Arab world died with it too. Every country in that region fell under US planted puppets, and Palestine is still in question. Egypt was witnessing its first decades of industrialization and massive economic growth during Nasser (despite two wars that it was put through). Don't forget that Nasser was the answer to a free, secular, and thriving middle-east, but US did not want that since Nasser was much more a soviet than they had liked, this was of course due to the west (mainly US) already having dominated so much of the middle east for its oil. Israel was pretty much put there so as to assert further US dominance in the middle east.
The reign of control is beginning to see its last days, the only reason the US Administration are reacting in the manner that they are now is because of Al Jazeeras media dominance, they have no choice but to follow suit, otherwise their barbaric imperialist hypocrisy will be obvious to all. Had there not been much coverage, it is without any uncertainty that I will say that Obama and PR campaigns would have jumped on this and turned it around. This revolution is not just one of the people, it is one of free public and unbiased press, Al Jazeera + Wikileaks + many others have contributed to this.

The paradigm in this era is journalism, unbiased journalism, not backed by any political, economic fat cat.

caivano Wrote:

Womacks23 Wrote:These are positions the Egyptian people want to make law. Is it really "democracy" when the people running the country have to tell the 75% of Egyptians who want to put to death someone who converts to Buddhism to go ***** off with their extremism?

it's a bit rich coming out with statements like this based on what... one survey?? or do you actually have a good knowledge of Egypt?

Do you favor or oppose making the following the law in Egypt? d. Death penalty for people who leave the Muslim religion

Favor - 84%
Oppose - 13%
Don't Know/ Refuse to Answer - 3%

Do you really need to be a country expert to recognize the implications of that question and the results?

bodhisamaya Wrote:

Womacks23 Wrote:These are positions the Egyptian people want to make law. Is it really "democracy" when the people running the country have to tell the 75% of Egyptians who want to put to death someone who converts to Buddhism to go ***** off with their extremism?

I think if you polled people in Alabama whether they would they support such a bill for Christians who wanted to convert to Islam, the numbers might be very similar.

Yea nice joke.

I think we have a lot in common liosama

The US government has a rich history of supporting dictators right up until a popular revolution overthrows them, at which point they try and make it seem as if they supported the people all along.
Obama's clever spin, in which he's said practically nothing specific, just 'The people have spoken', 'Moral force of non-violence' yada yada yada is no exception to this rule.

The media has largely ignored Israel's response to these events:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/3...3720110131

liosama Wrote:Israel was pretty much put there so as to assert further US dominance in the middle east.

Uh

thecite Wrote:The US government has a rich history of supporting dictators right up until a popular revolution overthrows them, at which point they try and make it seem as if they supported the people all along.
Obama's clever spin, in which he's said practically nothing specific, just 'The people have spoken', 'Moral force of non-violence' yada yada yada is no exception to this rule.

The media has largely ignored Israel's response to these events:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/3...3720110131

You don't think the USA had been working to promote improved human rights in Egypt?

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I was so angry hearing Obama's talk a couple days ago. Why should the Egyptians even care what this sock puppet has to say?

I created this thread to invite others to celebrate with the Egyptians, for what it means and represents for the rest of the world.

Please keep your redneck views on Islam and Eastern countries out of this forum.

Of course not. Or whatever small efforts they may have been taking are overshadowed by the fact they were giving billions of dollars of aid to perhaps the most brutal dictator in the region.

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Womacks23 Wrote:You don't think the USA had been working to promote improved human rights in Egypt?

America has so many problems of their own, they should take care of themselves instead of telling the rest of the world how they should run their country.

Fix your economy, and be an example to the world. Then other countries will follow.

thecite Wrote:Of course not. Or whatever small efforts they may have been taking are overshadowed by the fact they were giving billions of dollars of aid to perhaps the most brutal dictator in the region.

And why was the US giving billions of aid to Egypt? Was that not a 30+ year policy to keep peace by keeping Egypt's military on a more level field compared to Israel?

Since the site administration does not like me pointing out that the vast majority of Egyptians hold questionable views about basic religious and human rights....I'm going to sign out of this thread.

I only hope that Egypt's military (made in America™) can create a strong liberal constitution that protects basic human rights and Egyptian democracy doesn't actually turn out to be a brutal Islamic theocracy.

I want Egypt to get liberalism instead of "democracy". Egypt needs checks and balances, separation of powers, equal rights for religious minorities, freedom of religion, restrictions on the power of the electoral victors, and legal guarantees that those who lose out in elections will not be persecuted.

Later

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Womacks23 Wrote:Since the site administration does not like me pointing out that the vast majority of Egyptians hold questionable views about basic religious and human rights....I'm going to sign out of this thread.

Thanks!

And I suppose the American government doesn't have questionable views on human rights either?

phantombk201 Wrote:HEY HALF BRO!
i would be glad if you give me your facebook お願い

I don't really use facebook. Social networking corrupts society. =|

I realise the irony of this statement given the current context.

Womacks23 Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:

Womacks23 Wrote:These are positions the Egyptian people want to make law. Is it really "democracy" when the people running the country have to tell the 75% of Egyptians who want to put to death someone who converts to Buddhism to go ***** off with their extremism?

I think if you polled people in Alabama whether they would they support such a bill for Christians who wanted to convert to Islam, the numbers might be very similar.

Yea nice joke.

I'm not sure how they made their mistake in data gathering, but common sense would tell you that 75% can not be accurate. I would put 40% as on the high side as well. Like another user pointed out, we were sold false data about Iraq as well. Whatever the true number, it will go down as information is shared more freely.

Womacks23 Wrote:Are you saying that they didn't actually go out and ask people around the Middle East what they thought but stayed in America and decided to just make a bunch of numbers up?

Do you have any actual evidence on that?

Do you have any evidence that they did? And do you have any reason to think their questions were phrased impartially or without any leading questions?

There's no methodology on that site, and no indication of what the actual questions were or where specifically they found people to ask, or how many people were asked.

Surveys, especially dubious ones like that, are not a credible source of information. They can be made up, distorted by selecting the respondents, influenced by asking leading questions or by have non-leading questions asked in a leading way. It's not evidence of anything, so get off your high horse about how barbaric you think Egyptians are.

Sorry wasn't supposed to come back here but the full info on the survey, including the questions, is found here

http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/Pew-G...2-2010.pdf

Womacks23 Wrote:

thecite Wrote:Of course not. Or whatever small efforts they may have been taking are overshadowed by the fact they were giving billions of dollars of aid to perhaps the most brutal dictator in the region.

And why was the US giving billions of aid to Egypt? Was that not a 30+ year policy to keep peace by keeping Egypt's military on a more level field compared to Israel?

That's been the standard line. Support a dictator to uphold US/ Israeli interests. 'We love democracy, but please not now. We need to uphold this brutal dictator to maintain the peace.' As long as the Egyptian population are silent, the US doesn't care.
Support one brutal regime (Egypt) to protect another brutal regime (Israel).
Ironically, the US has never cared about Saudi Arabia being a brutal fundamentalist monarchy.

nevermind

Womacks23 Wrote:Sorry wasn't supposed to come back here but the full info on the survey, including the questions, is found here

http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/Pew-G...2-2010.pdf

There is not a sampling methodology in there, it just gives dates and then lots of results. Consider that if the organisation conducting the survey wants to produce results of any kind, all they have to do is target areas where they know extreme attitudes are more common. It's not a reliable source of information, and you shouldn't base your judgement of a nation on it.

I'm glad to see they acknowledge the unreliability of surveys:

Quote:In addition to sampling error, one should bear in mind that question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of opinion polls.