bodhisamaya Wrote:*Edited for lack of delete option

Glad to know that you stopped by to check in

It seems a bit pointless to me to disable the delete option when as long as the edit option is still there, someone can still "do an Icecream" and replace all their posts with full stops. I think the best idea would be to enable both deleting and editing of posts but only until a week or maybe a month after they were posted.

I agree with Fishface. I think the best policy is to allow deleting and editing for some period of time, and then automatically disable it when posts reach a certain age. But I wonder if this forum software provides that feature.

A better solution is to have a delete account button. If you choose to use it your account becomes inaccessible and all your posts automatically have their user name changed to "guest". You can no longer access your account, nor can it be restored. Also, no one can contact you as your contact information is wiped clean. You basically don't have any access anymore, but the overall flow of the forum is maintained.

In addition to this, in the delete dialogue you could add a "ban my IP" option, so you can never sign up again under your current IP.

This was sent as a form letter email reply, like you might get from Smart.fm these days. So I assume it was meant for mass reading:

Ice Cream Wrote:hey everyone... sorry for making you all worry! i'm ok... just got back from a long flight back from Japan about an hour ago.

Anyway, i wasn't hacked or anything, just felt like deleting myself... the more i deleted, the more i felt kind of free, so i carried on til it was all gone. To me, deleting the past lets me move forward sometimes. anyway, i'm a bit tired now, but just wanted to let you all know i'm ok!!!

To Fabrice: i guess we disagree about the ownership of our own posts a bit, to me, i haven't deleted anyone elses posts like if you could delete a whole thread, so they are mine to delete if i choose to, i think. I also assumed my posts weren't that important in the grand scheme of things. But if there's any information people really want that i posted, i can post it again or email or something when i'm not busy.

Anyway, even if i don't post, i'd still like to read the forums sometimes, so please unban me if you can! (it won't let me read any threads now i logged in to get the contact email)

Speak soon

"Anyway, i wasn't hacked or anything, just felt like deleting myself... the more i deleted, the more i felt kind of free, so i carried on til it was all gone."

I understand her plight. She was physically trapped in this forum, and the only way she could escape from the snares was to delete each rope that held her from her freedom.

...

Cranks Wrote:A better solution is to have a delete account button. If you choose to use it your account becomes inaccessible and all your posts automatically have their user name changed to "guest". You can no longer access your account, nor can it be restored. Also, no one can contact you as your contact information is wiped clean. You basically don't have any access anymore, but the overall flow of the forum is maintained.

In addition to this, in the delete dialogue you could add a "ban my IP" option, so you can never sign up again under your current IP.

This is a good solution to the situation where someone wants to erase their presence. However, I think FishFace's solution is also a good idea alongside this, as it is useful to have the option to edit posts. I don't think anyone should be able to delete posts though, apart from mods/admin.

Fishface Wrote:It seems a bit pointless to me to disable the delete option when as long as the edit option is still there, someone can still "do an Icecream" and replace all their posts with full stops. I think the best idea would be to enable both deleting and editing of posts but only until a week or maybe a month after they were posted.

What about posts where the first post get's updated with new information? Like the Subs2srs thread or Audiobooks or NukeMarines guide etc? Just limit updates to 10 per day or something, or add a captcha to edits. If it's time consuming to make lots of edits people will just give up after the first few.

travis Wrote:What about posts where the first post get's updated with new information? Like the Subs2srs thread or Audiobooks or NukeMarines guide etc? Just limit updates to 10 per day or something, or add a captcha to edits. If it's time consuming to make lots of edits people will just give up after the first few.

That's exactly what the site wiki is for. First post should just to the wiki, then update as needed - done.

I don't mind post deletion being enabled. I doubt most people would bother doing something like this, so if there's a way to tack a time limit on it then perhaps that could suffice. As travis brings up, doing this for edits as well might not be an optimal solution. Maybe there could be an exception to this for sticky threads.

[ファブリス]

JimmySeal Wrote:I agree with Fishface. I think the best policy is to allow deleting and editing for some period of time, and then automatically disable it when posts reach a certain age. But I wonder if this forum software provides that feature.

No it doesn't.

The forum will move to PhpBB or something else more featured, eventually.

And btw, JimmySeal is banned for up to 48h because of an attack against kittycate44 in another thread, which prompted her to report it and then in IceCream copycat fashion, deleted her older posts, which annoyed the hell out of me, I'll give you that. Since kittycate44 can't take any criticism in a responsible manner, and decided to be as childish as IceCream, and specifically asked to delete her posts, I happily did so. I also banned her email and current IP.

I haven't made a decision regarding IceCream (edit: but I'll tell you, it won't be pretty). I'm busy trying to get some work done *sigh*.

This is how I'd go about this issue (once magical forum technology allows): Edit and delete should be time based. After that posts are considered to be owned by the forum and its community. You want to delete your account, fine but your name stays (reference in posts, if you change it to "guest" and its "IceCream" in the thread there's no way of telling who is who) & so do your posts.

thurd Wrote:This is how I'd go about this issue (once magical forum technology allows): Edit and delete should be time based. After that posts are considered to be owned by the forum and its community. You want to delete your account, fine but your name stays (reference in posts, if you change it to "guest" and its "IceCream" in the thread there's no way of telling who is who) & so do your posts.

Wow, to manage such a website and have to manage the users as well -- that sounds like of effort. Don't you have anybody tp help you manage people here? I think you may need some helpers.

If you're not willing to allow the information shared on a public forum to REMAIN shared, don't share it in the first place, especially on an educational forum where a lot of the information is useful for other students.

I am not opposed to completely disabling the ability to delete or edit until a timed solution arrives, you can always post again to clarify, and this stops SO MUCH effort from the entire community essentially being rendered useless because of someone on a whim deciding to "screw it"

ファブリス Wrote:

JimmySeal Wrote:I agree with Fishface. I think the best policy is to allow deleting and editing for some period of time, and then automatically disable it when posts reach a certain age. But I wonder if this forum software provides that feature.

No it doesn't.

The forum will move to PhpBB or something else more featured, eventually.

And btw, JimmySeal is banned for up to 48h because of an attack against kittycate44 in another thread, which prompted her to report it and then in IceCream copycat fashion, deleted her older posts, which annoyed the hell out of me, I'll give you that. Since kittycate44 can't take any criticism in a responsible manner, and decided to be as childish as IceCream, and specifically asked to delete her posts, I happily did so. I also banned her email and current IP.

I haven't made a decision regarding IceCream (edit: but I'll tell you, it won't be pretty). I'm busy trying to get some work done *sigh*.

You are a responsible, fair admin that created this community and has given more to it than anyone could reasonably ask. Whatever you do will you'll have support.

I wanted to see if it was possible to add something like what I suggested so I looked through the PunBB source and came up with this. Even though adding it would probably open some massive security hole or break the forum I thought I'd share it anyway.

delete.php:
Go to line 70 and replace

Quote:$cur_post['closed'] == '1') &&

with

Quote:$cur_post['closed'] == '1' ||
$cur_post['posted'] + 60*60*24*7 > time()) &&

edit.php
Go to line 68 and replace

Quote:$cur_post['closed'] == '1') &&

with

Quote:$cur_post['closed'] == '1' ||
$cur_post['posted'] + 60*60*24*7 > time()) &&

viewtopic.php
Go to line 431 and replace

Quote:if ($cur_post['poster_id'] == $forum_user['id'])

with

Quote:if ($cur_post['poster_id'] == $forum_user['id'] && $cur_post['posted'] + 60*60*24*7 < time())

I can understand her, wanting to get rid of all the ties that bind, but there are better ways. It hurts to see thousands of posts being deleted, when it is undoubtedly so that they contain useful information. It is nice of her to want to share any of the deleted information, suggesting to me that she has some backup somewhere. Who knows?

Anyway i don't like the fact of being denied to see what had been written. And it is sad that the aftermath of this is the taking away of rights granted to the individual user. Namely to be able to delete a post, when it is clear that what has been asked, or what has been posted, is not on topic. This happened to me twice and i was grateful to have that option, and not having to apologize for being off-topic, or having to tell someone: Hey, i misunderstood what you have been asking, please forget about it.

ファブリス I don't want to sweet talk you into giving us that option back. But it is less strenousness on your side when we have that option, than having to ask you constantly to remove or edit some things. And why would you change a running system? This board is fine as it is, i like it here, as it is. And it seems to have been fine for some years, nay? It has all the features one could ask for. So why would you want to add yet another generic board to the myriad of boards with UBB, VBB and what not?

The only other thing i want to say about the delete / edit post option is this. This was the most mature option to trust unto the users i have seen. And i have seen and been part of many websites and usergroups and mod groups in the past couple of years. This shows that you can trust the users here, so that they don't go rampant, to delete everything. And i don't think anyone else will ever come up with that idea again. So, trust us, please.

Nagareboshi Wrote:The only other thing i want to say about the delete / edit post option is this. This was the most mature option to trust unto the users i have seen. And i have seen and been part of many websites and usergroups and mod groups in the past couple of years. This shows that you can trust the users here, so that they don't go rampant, to delete everything. And i don't think anyone else will ever come up with that idea again. So, trust us, please.

I'm less active than most here, and from what I've seen this has been an ongoing issue, but not to this sort of magnitude. I remember when entire threads were disappearing because people were deleting "their topics" on a whim as well until that option was finally disabled.

It's not the first, won't be the last ( if the option is there ), as long as there are people and freedoms, they will be abused.

Dustin_Calgary Wrote:

Nagareboshi Wrote:...

I'm less active than most here, and from what I've seen this has been an ongoing issue, but not to this sort of magnitude. I remember when entire threads were disappearing because people were deleting "their topics" on a whim as well until that option was finally disabled.

It's not the first, won't be the last, as long as there are people and freedoms, they will be abused.

I see. Sure, there will always be the one black sheep out there, so to say. But as long as the majority is not so, let's call it undeliberate, why change? Just a rethorical question. And i do not say if this is something that has been an ongoing thing that removing an option is not the better option.

Strange that people insist deletingosts to be a right. This is not so anywhere else. You cannot go back and edit/delete matters of public record. Its a fact of life in the real world that if you participate in a public forum you give up the right to edit that correspondence.

mafried Wrote:Strange that people insist deletingosts to be a right. This is not so anywhere else. You cannot go back and edit/delete matters of public record. Its a fact of life in the real world that if you participate in a public forum you give up the right to edit that correspondence.

I know you are speaking in general but I don't insist that it is a right to delete something from way back. Or deleting something in general. But it is undeniably a privilege given to every user here. And this privilege gave us the right to delete or edit posts. If it is the right to delete something said in a heated discussion, but with an explanation and an exuse afterwards, then this should be up to the individual user.

zachandhobbes Wrote:It's different for a reason though.

If two people were in a debate discussing a topic using youtube videos to debate and exchange chats, and people were following it, then it would be pretty irresponsible for one of the guys to just randomly delete all his videos a year later.

I'm not against IceCream or anything, but it would have been nice if she had at LEAST let people know that she was going to do that so we didn't lose all her quality posts and work.

It's like if a friend consistently comes and brings you a snack, not because you asked for it but out of the goodness of their heart. But then randomly one day they just don't show up and you have no snack and you're wondering what happened as well as being snackless. Also your friend goes into your stomach and takes all the previous snacks you ate and throws them in the garbage.

It's a little rude honestly! but I guess it is all opinion.

I see where you're going with the analogy, but I don't think it really carries the full weight of the issue. In your analogy, you seem greedy relying on someone else to feed you. In reality, this was a shared endeavour, the value of which is now greatly diminished.

A better analogy: deleting all past posts of yours from this forum is akin to spending years weaving an elaborate tapestry with friends. Then, one day you decide you want out, so you pull out every single thread you wove. Not only your work is lost, but the work of others who worked on the piece too - it all gets trashed. The tapestry is reduced to a pile of meaningless and disconnected yarn and the collective effort is wasted.

I think individual rights are irrelevant in this instance - if it's possible to stop this from happening again I think we should stop it. I'm fairly good friends with IceCream and I don't really think she should be banned for this, the option was available in the settings and she used it. Let's just disable the option and then it can't happen again. Put something about it in the ToS. And can you reinstate deleted messages? Perhaps replacing IceCream's name if she so wishes? I guess that's going to be contentious.

I agree mafried - in all aspects of life one must be held accountable for one's past actions. People should not be saying things on the record that they would later like to remove from the record.

Blahah Wrote:the option was available in the settings and she used it.

Abused it you mean.

Come on, thousands of posts... This feature was never meant to be used that way. Who would think about such an absurd scenario?

iMat72 Wrote:

Blahah Wrote:the option was available in the settings and she used it.

Abused it you mean.

Come on, thousands of posts... This feature was never meant to be used that way. Who would think about such an absurd scenario?

Use and abuse, it can be a fine line, but this goes far beyond that line.

Just because you're ABLE to, doesn't make it OK :p

Perhaps I gave the false impression that I was defending IceCream's actions - I thought I made it clear that I don't think it's OK to delete all your posts. However, I also don't think we should ban IceCream. I think we should remedy the situation by preventing it happening again, not taking retribution.