I've nearly finished RTK1 (65 more to go) and I'm beginning to see that I'm coming to a problem.

I've read both the "RTK 2 methodologies" and "Help in starting RTK2" thread but didn't find a solution.

Besides RTK1 I read myself through http://guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar to get a basic grasp about the grammar and learned Hiragana/Katakana.

Now..how should I continue to learn?
I have RTK2 here, but I did see that people suggest that instead of continuing to mindlessly read from the book, I should start with literature instead, like Visual Novels.

The question I have is:
How exactly am I supposed to learn?

Here is a sample sentence:
"毎日勉強するのは大変"
So what now?
I see that 毎+日 means "every day" and is spelled "まいにち".
I see that 勉+強 means "study" and is spelled "べんきょう".
I see that 大+変 means "hard/difficult" and is spelled "たいへん".

With grammar and Hiragana I know the spelling of the sentence and that it means:
"To study every day is hard."

Now to my question:
Whats the best method to learn the different readings and kanji combinations with the help of Heisigs RTK1?

Is there any special method to "make use" of the learned keywords?

I hope I phrased the question good enough, and sorry if I missed a thread!

Thanks in advance!

It's really late, so I don't have time for a long answer, but 毎日 is まいにち not まいにじ

Can't really help you but here is my experience: I did RTK3 just after RTK1 because it became like some kind of contest (or something... momentum is the word I was looking for but couldn't put in a sentence).

I was already running to the 2042 checkpoint, but in the end, I ran "through" this checkpoint to another one, the 3007 kanjis (more, less, who cares?). I was thinking: I am running, why would I stop?

@Shmurk
But then I'm running into the same problem. :/
It just takes longer till I get there.
Learning RTK3 now would be possible, but I think I would loose much motivation because I cant see my success.

Sure I start to understand what sentences are about only by looking at the kanjis, but that doesn't help me much.

@Zorlee
True, sorry about that! (I'm still starting after all, I can use that as an excuse )

[ファブリス]

Simple approach:

* Use a textbook to have a simple path to follow, at least to cover the basics. For example tear through Genki 1 (which you will, having completed RTK1). There's quite a few good textbooks out there.

* Get iTunes for Windows or OS X, or iOS device, and subscribe to audio/video podcasts (there's a few threads here), to get your daily dose of spoken japanese. Look up a few words each day and add them to SRS or just write them in a notebook. Bypass romaji, now that you completed RTK1. Podcasts like 上田の仕事人名鑑 have a lot of kanji "subtitles", you can pause to dissect some sentences, or make sure you get the proper writing for what you hear.

* Add missing kanji from RTK3 as you come accross them.

Ok, I will take a look at Genki 1, thanks for the recommendation!

But it doesn't solve my problem :/
Is there a way to put RTK1 to a "special use"?

From the example above:
勉強, how do or shoud I learn the combination of the 2 keywords + spelling?
勉強 = exertion+strong = study = べんきょう.
So I'll continue to make stories?
What if it is pronounced differently?

Maybe it's a stupid question and I'm missing something here.

vocab deck

cyrandl Wrote:Ok, I will take a look at Genki 1, thanks for the recommendation!

But it doesn't solve my problem :/
Is there a way to put RTK1 to a "special use"?

From the example above:
勉強, how do or shoud I learn the combination of the 2 keywords + spelling?
勉強 = exertion+strong = study = べんきょう.
So I'll continue to make stories?
What if it is pronounced differently?

Maybe it's a stupid question and I'm missing something here.

Buy the whole Genki Series plus An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese (Revised Edition).

To solve your problem, you could also buy the Basic and Intermediate Kanji Book series, and learn the reading and writing of compounds with them.

While working through Genki 2, i also work with my Basic Kanji Book. I add the words to my vocab and sentence deck to review them there. Individual on / kun reading goes into my RTK 1 deck. I also started to change the English keywords into Japanese ones there.

So if you want to do something useful, learn the vocab as it is, put them in a vocab deck and review them as they are. If you happen to come upon a similar looking kanji pair that has different reading, add the new reading to the existing card. And don't try to come up with stories for the reason you want to remember stuff like べんきょう.

My question is, what do you want to achieve? Learning the reading, or being able to write 勉強 from memory by hand?

Nagareboshi Wrote:My question is, what do you want to achieve? Learning the reading, or being able to write 勉強 from memory by hand?

For now? Reading and speaking I guess.
Afterwards I want to build on that and learn to write.

Nagareboshi Wrote:To solve your problem, you could also buy the Basic and Intermediate Kanji Book series, and learn the reading and writing of compounds with them.

Maybe I'm creating myself a problem where there isn't one:
I don't know which method I should use to learn the different readings/meanings of the kanjis signs, with the help of RTK1.
Should I continue creating stories or simply try to remember the combinations and readings?

Nagareboshi Wrote:So if you want to do something useful, learn the vocab as it is, put them in a vocab deck and review them as they are. If you happen to come upon a similar looking kanji pair that has different reading, add the new reading to the existing card. And don't try to come up with stories for the reason you want to remember stuff like べんきょう.

So I'm switching from the stories to "remembering", right?
Like above: 勉強 = exertion+strong = study = べんきょう.
No stories involved.

Also what exactly am I saving in my deck, the whole sentence?
Otherwise how do I know the readings?

Sorry if these are stupid questions. :p

Well, you don't really need a "method" for learning readings per se. Brute forcing them through vocab/sentence items works fine. Assigning readings to kanji can be hard initially, but sooner or later you will start to see the patterns, and be able to infer more and more from previous knowledge and context.

What is usually recommended around here is getting a premade anki deck such as Core 2000 or KO2001 and formatting it to your liking. Personally, I prefer to find something interesting to mine quick vocab cards from and just spend most of the time reading.

Alternatively, you could look into methods such as Kanji Town or the Movie Method. You might need an extra batch of motivation though, and you won't be learning vocab with it.

astendra Wrote:Well, you don't really need a "method" for learning readings per se. Brute forcing them through vocab/sentence items works fine. Assigning readings to kanji can be hard initially, but sooner or later you will start to see the patterns, and be able to infer more and more from previous knowledge and context.

What is usually recommended around here is getting a premade anki deck such as Core 2000 or KO2001 and formatting it to your liking. Personally, I prefer to find something interesting to mine quick vocab cards from and just spend most of the time reading.

Alternatively, you could look into methods such as Kanji Town or the Movie Method. You might need an extra batch of motivation though, and you won't be learning vocab with it.

Thanks! This is what I wanted to know!
Core 2000 looks also very interesting.

Thanks for all the fast help!

cyrandl, let me give this a stab.

You're looking for a way to put RtK to use, basically, correct?

You are kind of creating a problem that doesn't exist by doing this. RtK is there to give you the leg up when actually learning reading. You did RtK so that when you are going through a textbook, reading a manga/book/newspaper/etc and you see a kanji, you can say, "Oh, look at that. I've written that one 4000 times. It's my best friend." You'll also find as you go that already being familiar with the kanji will make learning the reading expodentially easier. I never have a problem remembering kanji readings, even if it's the first time I've come across it, simply because I am familiar with the kanji and don't have to worry about that as well.

So, the short answer is: Don't worry about it. Go study grammar and read and you'll be fine.

Ryuujin27 Wrote:You're looking for a way to put RtK to use, basically, correct?

You are kind of creating a problem that doesn't exist by doing this.

<<--Yes, exactly, you've used RTK1 now, it's all done! (Although you have to continue practising with it until you are happy you know all the kanji)

Maybe you didn't notice, but when you read your sentence about studying every day, you recognised the kanji in that sentence. Well, that's why we have RTK. Remember, other people who don't use it/believe in it have to remember the readings and the meanings and the shapes of the letters all in a big mess.

Now for learning, say, 毎日, you already know it means [every][day] because of the kanji, so you only have to remember the pronunciation. You can use a mnemonic or story for that if you want, say for example "my knee is itchy every day" or whatever, or if you just remember the pronunciation anyway that's great. Any mnemonic you make will be soon forgotten anyway and replaced with purely remembering the pronunciation.

Hey It's me again!
First of all thanks again for the responses, you helped me alot!

Even though I'm not happy with the 1000yen a month, I'm currently using iKnow making my way through Core1000. (Currently at ~500).
I tried Anki as well, but somehow it just doesn't feel right.

Suprisingly it is extremly easy to learn the new words, however I have 1 problem:
If I would need to write the kanji signs I would have a bit of a problem to remember.
Not the sign itself, but the combinations.
Weirdly enough this does not happen while reading.

Should I worry about this? Otherwise I would train my reading ability first, and afterwards train to write.
But if I'm getting into problems later on because of this please let me know!

Also I bought Genki1, thanks for the recommendation!

Probably not a problem, eventually you'll remember the reading by heart and you'll say in your head, "I have to write it this way because this kanji has this reading and that one has that one", but that'll come with time(reading more, learning more words(more patterns)) and more writing practice.

blackbrich Wrote:Probably not a problem, eventually you'll remember the reading by heart and you'll say in your head, "I have to write it this way because this kanji has this reading and that one has that one", but that'll come with time(reading more, learning more words(more patterns)) and more writing practice.

reading get's easier over time. Some with writing. I believe it really comes time to time+good methods+enjoyment.

Actually, I like the way the OP phrased things.

Every single little thing you learn is an achievement. Sometimes I look back on my studying and go "man... I still suck!"

But I know 毎日 is まいにち! and I know what it means! And I could read it quickly!

It's amazing how much I've learned even though I feel like I haven't gotten far at all yet.

zachandhobbes Wrote:Actually, I like the way the OP phrased things.

Every single little thing you learn is an achievement. Sometimes I look back on my studying and go "man... I still suck!"

But I know 毎日 is まいにち! and I know what it means! And I could read it quickly!

It's amazing how much I've learned even though I feel like I haven't gotten far at all yet.

same here. I always look at what I can't do yet but I hardly look at what I can do/how far I've come. The main thing is not to put yourself down/be hard on yourself.
I guess we set our standard too high at times for ourselves.

zachandhobbes Wrote:Actually, I like the way the OP phrased things.

Every single little thing you learn is an achievement. Sometimes I look back on my studying and go "man... I still suck!"

But I know 毎日 is まいにち! and I know what it means! And I could read it quickly!

It's amazing how much I've learned even though I feel like I haven't gotten far at all yet.

I concur with this as well. Yes my Japanese may be extremely poor, but it's WAY ahead of where it was. A short time ago I was trying to catch up with a friend after I took a LOT of time off, and he had bought the textbook I had with the intention of studying together. I had to virtually start from scratch, and I've now blown right by him, and he's not sure if he;ll be able to catch up!

I think learning readings using heisig is done using the so called 'movie method'

I've not used it, just heard of it. might be worth a try if you want to keep using the keywords.

Thanks for all the kind comments and help, as always!

I looked at the movie method, but I'm not sure it is what I need.
When I look at new combinations I remember the signs and how they are pronunciated or simply remember it.
I have trouble if I would need to write a sentence per hand.
図書館 for ex.
When I see it I've no problem, but to write it I have to think hard.

I guess I'll continue and see what happens.
But it would really suck if I had to redo everything to make myself able to write! (per hand that is, windows is nice enough to make suggestions )

Fair enough. If you feel that strongly about it, I'll retract my comment.

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:Fair enough. If you feel that strongly about it, I'll retract my comment.

I'll delete my comment too then, since you seem honest enough to not deserve the bad publicity. There were just a few combined factors that made your post seem inappropriate.

cyrandl Wrote:Thanks for all the kind comments and help, as always!

I looked at the movie method, but I'm not sure it is what I need.
When I look at new combinations I remember the signs and how they are pronunciated or simply remember it.
I have trouble if I would need to write a sentence per hand.
図書館 for ex.
When I see it I've no problem, but to write it I have to think hard.

I guess I'll continue and see what happens.
But it would really suck if I had to redo everything to make myself able to write! (per hand that is, windows is nice enough to make suggestions )

You shouldn't be afraid of looking up it in a dictionary. If you don't have one you should consider getting one.

Tzadeck Wrote:

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:Fair enough. If you feel that strongly about it, I'll retract my comment.

I'll delete my comment too then, since you seem honest enough to not deserve the bad publicity. There were just a few combined factors that made your post seem inappropriate.

It would have been better if it was the comment was left so other people could decide on their own. If it was spam then the administrator should have been notified for it their discussion to be made. Anyways, I will take the time to do some independent searching.