Hi, so I was hoping others could give me some advice about my plans for studying abroad in Japan. I had my eyes on a year-long program for but I'm worried about their Japanese curriculum. You see, they actually don't have an intensive Japanese course so they go at about the same pace as my home university. Despite that, it's still my top choice right now because it's financially viable and I actually meet the minimum requirements.

So do you think their lack of an intensive Japanese program would be a good enough reason not to take part in the program? Or do you think just setting my foot in Japan would be prove a worthwhile environment for building my language skills? Not only that, but I'll probably be placed in a home-stay or a normal dorm so there's a pretty high chance that I'll be immersed in Japanese.

There is another program that I could apply for once summer break comes along. I'm retaking a class that I failed last year, and should I pass that, I could qualify for a spring semester abroad in Osaka. The program has an intensive Japanese track along with some cultural courses. But since it's in spring, I would have to try and find someone to take over my lease.

So which option do you think would be more beneficial in helping me learn Japanese?

I'm studying here in Osaka for a year and it's not exactly intensive, I have 9 hours of Japanese classes a week. The rest of my classes are filler culture classes that match up the best i can with my subjects back home. However, just being here affords a lot more opportunity to learn, and interact. learning intensively from a textbook is very different to having to actually live it. Not to mention the experience in itself is something everyone should do.
I couldn't recommend going on exchange any more highly, i think it's something everyone should do. Language student or not, being exposed to different cultures and the responsibility that comes with being out on your own, and the bonds you make with people, are very much worth it.

Could you take semester exchange with the option to add another semester if you enjoy it? That would be your best option. As I said, I'm doing a year and I don't regret it one bit. Loving the experience so far.

It depends on what you want to do. Do you want to experience Japan or learn a lot of Japanese?

The program I went to in Osaka was extremely intensive when combined with the cultural electives, to the point that I had little time to participate in field trips, tours, hanging out with other students etc, except on extended holidays. My Japanese ability improved by quite a lot very quickly, but I never got to "enjoy" myself.

I tested in to the upper level classes (lvl 4) though. I hear the lower level classes were less intensive (they use genki1/2/something else for levels 1-3).

Not really, since most people in the non-intensive courses just went drinking/travelling with other foreigners and never learned much of anything.
They probably had a lot more fun and more memories though.
I should note that my program was a university exchange one and not a language school though, since it probably makes a difference.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Not really, since most people in the non-intensive courses just went drinking/travelling with other foreigners and never learned much of anything.
They probably had a lot more fun and more memories though.
I should note that my program was a university exchange one and not a language school though, since it probably makes a difference.

十人十色

That describes like 85% of the people on the JET program. But the opportunity for the "immersion" experience is there and no one is obligated to hang out with other foreigners every night.

That's one of the harder things I'm finding, I don't do the whole travelling / Partying thing very much, but trying to balance hanging with other international students, Japanese students, studying and other stuff is a mess. Because If I do too much of one, I feel like I'm missing out on one of the others.
It is true however, a lot of the people are here treating it like an extended holiday instead of a study opportunity, but then that's university isn't it.

pixiegreen Wrote:So which option do you think would be more beneficial in helping me learn Japanese?

Study as much and as hard as you can BEFORE you go. The more you know before you go the more you'll be able to learn while you're there. It's not necessary to go to a country to get fluent and going to a country doesn't guarantee fluency (or even improvement!). It sounds like you will be in a good immersion environment though which is key Don't feel like you have to go at the classes pace if it's too slow for you. Keep in mind you can direct your own study. The more you know before you go, the more you'll be able to enjoy it.

Whatever you do study hard and study every day.

My 2cents.

I studied in Osaka as well (関西大学) in 09-10 and there program was far from intensive. I can say this though; even if the program you go on isn't intensive, you can still gain a lot of Japanese from it. Biggest thing I learned from going abroad for a year besides personal development was that I was totally in control of my own Japanese learning and fancy classes weren't really going to do much besides provide supplemental reinforcement and a certain degree of structure. Take the year long path if you can, especially if its not intensive, you'll enjoy the time a lot more. Get out and make friends with random Japanese students on campus, its so easy.

So to answer your main concern. Take the longer stay and less intensive over the shorter more intensive stay. Just get out and talk to people, buy manga at the used book stores or something and read. With a bit of luck I think you'll quickly realize you don't really an intensive course to improve your Japanese. Some friends to chat with, Anki, and some textbooks to push your language boundaries are all you need.

Take the year long stay! You won't regret it!

I also went to 関西外大 ('06-07) and it was intensive in the lvl4&5 that I took. I don't know what level you tested into and it may vary by year since the teacher turnover is pretty high (they're all guest profs afaik).

My post was not a strawman attack for one major reason. Serious students don't take non-intensive language courses if they can at all help it. Why? Because if they study at all by themselves they'll be way beyond the level of the class pretty quickly, making it pointless and a waste of time & money. That just leaves the non-serious students who will have their gaijin bubble. Non-intensive classes are meant for people who want to have fun in a foreign country for a few months/get their foreign language credits.

If you're a serious student and don't want to take an intensive course, then why take a course at all?

Jarvik7 Wrote:I also went to 関西外大 ('06-07) and it was intensive in the lvl4&5 that I took. I don't know what level you tested into and it may vary by year since the teacher turnover is pretty high (they're all guest profs afaik).

外大　is a different school from 関西大学, that confused me for a while. But it sounds like the level system might be similar as ours went 1-6 and I tested into the 4th level in my first semester and moved into the 5th in my second. The language courses were considerably more difficult than anything I had in the states and forced us to use Japanese all the time, even when introducing new grammar. However, most of the culture classes, save for a few, were done almost all in English. And a fair number of the Japanese language culture stuff had to be split up eventually because there was a strong dichotomy in skill level where some people needed English explanations now and then and others could handle Japanese only explanations.

@tokyostyle: You basically hit on what I learned in my second semester in Osaka. I quickly realized that save for maybe 5%; everything I was learning in my Japanese classes was useless for everyday conversation. Much of the stuff you pick up in JLPT 2 & 1 is strictly written use only and even then the usage can be quite discrete. Even some of the stuff I learned in class that was supposedly used in spoken language; when I asked my Japanese friends about it they were like "No one ever uses that, use X in stead."

I think I'll run into that next semester as well, looking ahead in the book it's onto keigo and stuff, which is all fine and well but nothing I immediately need to hold conversations with friends. I still speak far too polite I've been told, but I guess that'll remedy itself eventually just by mimicking the people I speak to more.
I'm not even that good but my exchange university (桃山学院大学) starts Japanese only classes from lower intermediate. Talking to the people who started as beginners this semester, is scaring them shit-less going into next semester. Took me a little while to get my head around it, but I can't imagine going back to classes where you can go back to speaking English at any time during them.

Thanks so much for all the thoughtful replies.

Okay, so some things I realized I wasn't clear on was my purpose. I do want to go to Japan because I want to improve my ability at speaking Japanese. But that's just part of it, a major reason is also to travel, explore, and gain a bunch of difference experiences. It's kind of a big deal for me since I've never actually traveled outside of my state or even lived in a city before. So I do plan to travel and go out while in Japan, though I'm mostly going to leave off those stuff until break comes along. Actually, that's what I like about the year program, there's a long break between the two semesters so it gives me the chance for just traveling to other sites in Japan and I might even try volunteering for WWOOF. As for when school's in session, I mostly plan on participating in clubs and just hanging out with friends, mostly what vix86 mentioned.

As for the level of Japanese I'll be taking while going there, I wont know where I'll be placed until I arrive there and take a test. But, I'll probably be put in their level 3 if I follow my university's coursework. Also, yeah, I am required to take a Japanese class if I study abroad. Though I'll study a lot more Japanese, especially during the summer, so I think I have a pretty good chance of getting placed in level 4.

Also, Jarvik mentioned about gaijin-bubbles. And that got me thinking, since a lot of you seem to have studied abroad, how did you avoid that from occurring? Did you just flat out ignored interacting with gaijins even if it seemed rude? At first, I didn't think I would form a bubble like that since I wouldn't even know any of the gaijins so making friends with them would probably be just as hard as Japanese ones. Then today, I realized that I'll just stick around to anybody who just shares the same class as me even if I don't even know their name.

And mezbup mentioned studying as hard and as much before I go. Not sure if this fits in with the rest of this thread, but anyways, do you guys have tips on how to get the most out of a tutoring session? I just dropped in to my school's tutoring hours the other day for conversation practice, but we kept having these silent moments. And after a couple of those awkward moments I just decided to switch to reading and pronunciation.

You don't have to completely flat out ignore people to avoid the Gaijin bubble, in fact I'd say that's the worst option. Don't spend all your time with them, but your missing out of friends who are sharing an experience not many people get, and with that comes an odd bond that will allow you to crash on the couch of many different people, depends on where you end up in the world. It'll help open your eyes to the world and it's people not just Japan. Just remember to speak to the Japanese people too

I didn't avoid the gaijin bubbles, and I wouldn't suggest it. Just don't get trapped in them. You'll probably be in the same classes with the same group of people, and (if like my program) your non-language classes will be in English. In a sense -- they are "convenient friends" because they are handed to you. They don't hand you "convenient Japanese friends," and so the trick is to find a situation where you can make some.

My main outlet came from my club, parties, and acquaintances. I would meet one person I thought was cool, develop some sort of relationship with them, and kind of become friends with their friends. I did that until I found a few different circles of friends that I liked, and it worked out great.

Of course, Japanese ability really is a deciding factor in that...If in a real-time scenario, you can't produce any workable Japanese, it's going to be a lot harder to find Japanese people to be friends with. It'll be that much harder to break out of the gaijin bubble.

And think about it -- how often will you be in a situation where you can make friends with people from all over the world like that? Completely avoiding those kinds of friendships would be a darn shame. Plus, you might look like a dick.

Never underestimate the value of being able to communicate with someone in your native language.

On the gaijin bubble thing. I'll say this much. It CAN be easy to avoid but just note that it might make you seem quite stand offish to all the other exchange students on the program. In my program we had 1-2 guys that basically avoided all the gaijin, moved into their own apartments. We basically never saw them and when we did they had this strict almost "I ***** hate speaking English, I don't want anyone speaking English to me, not even the Japanese people." This one guy even took it to the extreme of avoiding any Japanese people that would speak English to him. That said, his Japanese was some of the most _fluent_ but it lacked content. He had this tendency to use the same phrases and structures over and over, but he could spit words out at native flow.

My personal opinion is mingle with the other exchange students, especially if you have some from other countries there as well. Some of my best memories while there were the times I spent with a lot of the other exchange students just chilling out and talking English while oogling all the girls in skirts. Its a great oppurtunity to learn about some of the culture from other parts of the world while abroad as well.

Just be careful to not get too comfortable with hanging out with your fellow English speakers that you never bother to try to expand and mingle with Japanese students; join a club like you said. If you are a guy, walk up to random girls and start talking to them, you'd be surprised how well this works.

One last thing I want to comment on that I just remembered one of my friends talking about. In our second semester one of the friends who joined the 応援団 tried to do that "don't talk English at all, unless class." He told me that after about a week he just couldn't do it because he didn't have a good "network to fall back on." Best way to explain it is, if you don't have any good friends that can help you and chat with you a lot you'll find it difficult to just talk with people. I think it had to do with the fact that even though you might have people you talk to, they still sort of sit in a group where they are "acquaintances" vs "really good friends." Kind of hard to explain. As a result, he gave up on that and simply made an effort to talk English now and then. Actually now that I think about, once he joined the 応援団 he WAS speaking JP almost all the time and he had a blast, but it was a shit ton of work.

And as Tokyostyle said, if you just make the effort to use Japanese even if its horrible, most people seem pretty enthused to talk to you, or at you (espc old people); just nod and say はい・うん・ええ, you get far.

tokyostyle Wrote:Meanwhile mine were of talking in Japanese to the girls in the skirts. To each his own!

I didn't do that enough lol, which might be why I have so few.

tokyostyle Wrote:

vix86 Wrote:Some of my best memories while there were the times I spent with a lot of the other exchange students just chilling out and talking English while oogling all the girls in skirts.

Meanwhile mine were of talking in Japanese to the girls in the skirts. To each his own!

Well, should I go to this school, I'm pretty sure most of my memories would consist of talking to girls with skirts. I would probably be hard not to since the student body is 90% female. Now, if I were a guy, I'd probably be elated about this.

tokyostyle Wrote:To be honest I do regret that I wasn't really able to make any good guy friends. I have some acquaintances and guys who would invite me to parties, but it pretty much ended there.

Also, one last piece of advice: Go to as many places as you can possibly afford! It seemed much easier to meet random people and get into equally random conversations when I was traveling around.

Making friends with other girls as a girl should be easy. Getting guys to come up and talk to you might be difficult though.

As to what tokyostyle says on going places. To add to that, you might consider grabbing an International License from AAA before going to Japan and renting a car while there. Road trip around, it was something I did my last few weeks in Japan and it was a lot of fun to see some of the very very rural regions. You could just punch in the name in the GPS and go. I recommend making sure you save up a bit of money or go with friends though, because you'll want to use the toll roads if at all possible, and they are EXPENSIVE!! If you want to go even cheaper, try finding a book or two at the bookstores that list youth hostels. A few of the ones I stayed in were pretty good, one was phenomenal, down just outside of Hiroshima.

They are pretty cheap to stay in, but I seriously recommend you NOT do the road trip in the summer time. That was the worst part for me, we went in August and some of the hostels don't have AC so ya....

Get out, have fun, see Japan, meet people. Stay a year! You'll love it and probably not want to leave after its over.

pixiegreen Wrote:

tokyostyle Wrote:

vix86 Wrote:Some of my best memories while there were the times I spent with a lot of the other exchange students just chilling out and talking English while oogling all the girls in skirts.

Meanwhile mine were of talking in Japanese to the girls in the skirts. To each his own!

Well, should I go to this school, I'm pretty sure most of my memories would consist of talking to girls with skirts. I would probably be hard not to since the student body is 90% female. Now, if I were a guy, I'd probably be elated about this.

I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but it seems as if the girls are a lot more friendly and talkative anyway. Which is good don't get me wrong, but I'm a little worried that within the next 6 months I'm going to start speaking like a 19 year old Osaka Girl. Seeing as that's who most of my conversations tend to be with. Hopefully when the 3DS is out some of the guys will have it, and I'll be able to barge my way into their social circle by challenging them at SSF4.

DS is mostly for women and children. I rarely see a man playing anything other than a PSP.

So I wouldn't count on it

Jarvik7 Wrote:DS is mostly for women and children. I rarely see a man playing anything other than a PSP.

So I wouldn't count on it

Well I am still a child at heart... guess I'll just have to hang around with the girls that i do anyway instead then :p

I wouldn't doubt the DS factor.

But you're going to attract mainly otakus. lol