I've got a good thing going for my sentence+vocab deck. Manage to do them both in 15-20mins. But my production deck always takes the longest. Like 30-1hr.

ta12121 Wrote:I've got a good thing going for my sentence+vocab deck. Manage to do them both in 15-20mins. But my production deck always takes the longest. Like 30-1hr.

I'm a relative newbie so I don't know all the anki jargon. What's a production deck?

May have been said, but time-limit, time-limit, time-limit (per card I mean). This not only speeds up your reviews but requires a stronger memory. I'd say 10 seconds for normal cards, but I always require myself to get cards I failed in less that 5.

ta12121 Wrote:I've got a good thing going for my sentence+vocab deck. Manage to do them both in 15-20mins. But my production deck always takes the longest. Like 30-1hr.

Omg, how do you do it? I have around 250-350 reviews everyday plus 30 new cards and it takes me so much time. 2 to 3 hours! It's so boring because it takes so much time! I'd rather be studying from textbooks.

I want to srs as efectively as possible (retaining the vocab and reviewing faster). But I feel I can read all the words if I see them, but to recall and use them in context (like when writing an essay) is another story...

How do you do it?

How much time do you spend studying per day?

My new vocabulary deck stats. About 1 month old.

My old deck I use for items 1+ month is at 10.5 seconds per card average at 97% for mature. The above is so high because I have a separate cram deck and only do 140-200 new cards per week (251 this week as I'm finishing off the JLPT3 stuff, which I need to re-review or fill holes on - I have done a lot of all of the levels, but haven't focused specifically like I am now.)

P.s., I study using Anki for maybe 40 minutes tops per day. I do a production approach, so 75% of my time is writing/speaking and 22% is reading and i+1 listening. I study about 5+ hours actively and, maybe, 18 hours a day passively (counting sleep listening). About 8 months ago I would have been 60% Anki, 35% input, 5% output - it wasn't working, so I changed to a production focus.

Seamoby Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:I've got a good thing going for my sentence+vocab deck. Manage to do them both in 15-20mins. But my production deck always takes the longest. Like 30-1hr.

I'm a relative newbie so I don't know all the anki jargon. What's a production deck?

Production deck is just something I use to write down kanji from kana (question) to kanji (question) and have a small translation under it. That deck contains kana,RTK kanji and kanji via vocabulary. I will include small sentences in it soon. Just to maintain my writing ability

CarolinaCG Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:I've got a good thing going for my sentence+vocab deck. Manage to do them both in 15-20mins. But my production deck always takes the longest. Like 30-1hr.

Omg, how do you do it? I have around 250-350 reviews everyday plus 30 new cards and it takes me so much time. 2 to 3 hours! It's so boring because it takes so much time! I'd rather be studying from textbooks.

I want to srs as efectively as possible (retaining the vocab and reviewing faster). But I feel I can read all the words if I see them, but to recall and use them in context (like when writing an essay) is another story...

How do you do it?

How much time do you spend studying per day?

Well first off. For now I'm not adding any new cards to my srs deck (expect production). My vocab+sentence deck, I'm only reviewing past information I put int there. But in terms of adding new cards. I look up vocab from context(news,sites,etc). Then I save that on my desktop. Then I open it up on word pad and save it as a text file. Then I can easily convert it into my vocab deck.
I have 3 fields that I use
Expression
Reading
Meaning

I'd like to argue for the kind of time limits mentioned by a poster above, only much shorter. If you're doing vocab, try to trim your answer time down to something like 3 seconds per card. If you go above this magic number, just fail. And you will fail alot of cards in trying to adapt, but there's no reason to worry - when you hit the sweet spot you'll catch it up in no time.

I actually find it's easier to learn this way as well, since you never lose momentum. When your mind doesn't have the time to wander... well, it stays focused. Plus, you probably want to learn to read at this speed anyway.

jettyke Wrote:* It could be good for concentration if there was this kind of a plugin, as one could at least close the browser window and concentrate on studying. Also, It could speed up the anki loading times... unfortunately my computer has been slowing down anki reviews' loading time partly because of the browser window being open.

I went ahead and wrote a simple anki plugin for an audible timer called, creatively enough, 'Audible Timer'.

You can specify the intervals (in tenths of seconds) and sound file to play at those intervals in jmrTimer.py (up near the top of a function is a python dictionary, called `d`, mapping seconds to sound files to play).

The default is a warning at 6.0 sec and a final bell at 10.0 sec, but you'll probably want to customize this to whatever works best for you. I also included a handful of sound effects from games/gameshows but you can obvious add any sound file supported by mplayer. If you find a good combination of sounds, you should share them with this thread

EDIT: If anyone knows how to detect the start/end of a session I can fix the two issues where it doesn't start until after your first answer and all the timers fire off once more after you end a session.

overture2112 Wrote:

jettyke Wrote:* It could be good for concentration if there was this kind of a plugin, as one could at least close the browser window and concentrate on studying. Also, It could speed up the anki loading times... unfortunately my computer has been slowing down anki reviews' loading time partly because of the browser window being open.

I went ahead and wrote a simple anki plugin for an audible timer called, creatively enough, 'Audible Timer'.

You can specify the intervals (in tenths of seconds) and sound file to play at those intervals in jmrTimer.py (up near the top of a function is a python dictionary, called `d`, mapping seconds to sound files to play).

The default is a warning at 6.0 sec and a final bell at 10.0 sec, but you'll probably want to customize this to whatever works best for you. I also included a handful of sound effects from games/gameshows but you can obvious add any sound file supported by mplayer. If you find a good combination of sounds, you should share them with this thread

EDIT: If anyone knows how to detect the start/end of a session I can fix the two issues where it doesn't start until after your first answer and all the timers fire off once more after you end a session.

Nice!

The best combination I found on that site I gave was End sound: buzzer x3, warn sound: gong, but I don't know if it's possible to get them into the plugin.

What is sure though, is that warn sound should be lower than the end sound.

astendra Wrote:I'd like to argue for the kind of time limits mentioned by a poster above, only much shorter. If you're doing vocab, try to trim your answer time down to something like 3 seconds per card. If you go above this magic number, just fail. And you will fail alot of cards in trying to adapt, but there's no reason to worry - when you hit the sweet spot you'll catch it up in no time.

I actually find it's easier to learn this way as well, since you never lose momentum. When your mind doesn't have the time to wander... well, it stays focused. Plus, you probably want to learn to read at this speed anyway.

How long have you been doing this 3 second interval method?

And what kind of a leech threshold do you recommend to set the deck to?

CarolinaCG Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:I've got a good thing going for my sentence+vocab deck. Manage to do them both in 15-20mins. But my production deck always takes the longest. Like 30-1hr.

Omg, how do you do it? I have around 250-350 reviews everyday plus 30 new cards and it takes me so much time. 2 to 3 hours! It's so boring because it takes so much time! I'd rather be studying from textbooks.

I want to srs as efectively as possible (retaining the vocab and reviewing faster). But I feel I can read all the words if I see them, but to recall and use them in context (like when writing an essay) is another story...

How do you do it?

How much time do you spend studying per day?

What kind of cards are these? Different cards will vary a lot in the time they take...

I only use SRS to get the vocab to recognising the word, then by reading and watching stuff, after I've seen heard the word in context a few times it slowly crosses over into being able to use the word myself.


Re: the timers - it's pretty easy to do this in your head. If someone could make a plugin that gave points for quick answers, bonuses combinations of correct answers like an arcade game that'd be sweet

caivano Wrote:Re: the timers - it's pretty easy to do this in your head. If someone could make a plugin that gave points for quick answers, bonuses combinations of correct answers like an arcade game that'd be sweet

I thought i was doing a decent job of this in my head, but the numbers make it clear that I wasn't doing a good of a job as I thought. The warning before the final buzzer is actually the big thing for me, as it helps me try to further reduce my avg rep time.

Adding a score for quick answers with multipliers for successive correct answers etc does sound pretty good. My code is open for all to see and everyone is welcome to hack on it.

caivano Wrote:What kind of cards are these? Different cards will vary a lot in the time they take...

I only use SRS to get the vocab to recognising the word, then by reading and watching stuff, after I've seen heard the word in context a few times it slowly crosses over into being able to use the word myself.


Re: the timers - it's pretty easy to do this in your head. If someone could make a plugin that gave points for quick answers, bonuses combinations of correct answers like an arcade game that'd be sweet

Depends. If the cards have already known vocab/grammar I do them faster. But as I want to be able to write every word I learn it takes me some time, but even when there's no need to write I somehow or either get distracted or just read the sentence more than one time.

Yeah, I was actually thinking of that. So the key to knowing when and how to use the vocab is reading. It all comes down to reading. I'll finish what I'm studying now and will start (actually already did, but not seriously) reading more stuff. I just get frustrated because I want to read things in the moment and still can't because I still don't know the vocab.

I would give it a go but I enjoy listening to music while doing anki so will have to make do with my head timer :$

I have no coding or hacking skills unfortunately..

caivano Wrote:I would give it a go but I enjoy listening to music while doing anki so will have to make do with my head timer

Understandable, I was doing so as well. Lately I've been distracted by music unless it's completely instrumental though, so I'll have to see if this added speed is more fun than listening to the Orcanina of Time soundtrack.

CarolinaCG Wrote:Depends. If the cards have already known vocab/grammar I do them faster. But as I want to be able to write every word I learn it takes me some time, but even when there's no need to write I somehow or either get distracted or just read the sentence more than one time.

Yeah, I was actually thinking of that. So the key to knowing when and how to use the vocab is reading. It all comes down to reading. I'll finish what I'm studying now and will start (actually already did, but not seriously) reading more stuff. I just get frustrated because I want to read things in the moment and still can't because I still don't know the vocab.

It really depends what you want to be able to do. When I started I wanted to be able to communicate in Japan so I was learning vocab J->E and E->J and using textbooks to practice producing grammar structures. Now I can pretty much say most of what I want to say (in some cobbled together way) so I am just concentrating on recognition (kanji -> reading and J vocab / sentence -> meaning) to improve my understanding.

I think most people here are doing kanji -> reading or J vocab / sentence -> meaning. If you are doing E -> J, or writing it'll def take longer.

overture2112 Wrote:Understandable, I was doing so as well. Lately I've been distracted by music unless it's completely instrumental though, so I'll have to see if this added speed is more fun than listening to the Orcanina of Time soundtrack.

Me too but I like instrumental electronic / house music so it's a good fit If you wanted to do both, maybe the screen changing colour or a progress bar or something could work.. I have no idea how easy or difficult making these things would be..!

caivano Wrote:

overture2112 Wrote:Understandable, I was doing so as well. Lately I've been distracted by music unless it's completely instrumental though, so I'll have to see if this added speed is more fun than listening to the Orcanina of Time soundtrack.

Me too but I like instrumental electronic / house music so it's a good fit If you wanted to do both, maybe the screen changing colour or a progress bar or something could work.. I have no idea how easy or difficult making these things would be..!

The problem is that I don't want my eyes to be distracted if I can avoid it, otherwise I'd just make the lower right hand corner timer larger or something. Perhaps there's some third option I'm failing to consider.

true. i think changing the background colour might work, but it might be annoying too. I have different colour backgrounds for different kinds of cards, which isn't annoying but if it was cycling through colours constantly maybe it would be.

for a basic time up timer just the word going red would be okay, but you would lose the warning.

caivano Wrote:It really depends what you want to be able to do. When I started I wanted to be able to communicate in Japan so I was learning vocab J->E and E->J and using textbooks to practice producing grammar structures. Now I can pretty much say most of what I want to say (in some cobbled together way) so I am just concentrating on recognition (kanji -> reading and J vocab / sentence -> meaning) to improve my understanding.

I think most people here are doing kanji -> reading or J vocab / sentence -> meaning. If you are doing E -> J, or writing it'll def take longer.

Wait, what?
Most people here do what? Most people here just learn how to read the kanji/word and not how to write it? I actually though everyone here focused on writing the words as well.

My sentences have new word(s) and the reading in hiragana and english meaning in the answer. Like this:

(前)
彼らは交通渋滞で何時間も立ち往生した。

(後ろ)　
じゅうたい　congestion, stagnation
たちおうじょう　standstill

I actually only write due to having classes and because I feel frustrated when I know I can read that word but when I want to write it I can't. Don't you?
All textbooks I've come across want students to focus on kanji too, they select x number of kanji for us to know and due to anki and rtk I can study every word in kanji. I can honestly say that I can write every word from jlpt 5-3 (jlpt 3 list is still now finished, but almost). It's not that much I know, but I actually feel glad when on a test I can write hard kanji and words that my class has never seen on tests.

Can you say almost everything you want to by means of speaking? If I see the grammar point I can use it and recognize it, but to produce sentences with it is harder (for some grammar points still not consolidated on my head). I will focus on consolidating the grammar after studying all 2kyuu grammar. After this is speaking skills... tough I don't read much my reading skills are getting better and will get better soon I'm sure.

I'd like to know something from everyone who studying grammar with anki only. Can you produce sentences with grammar learned this way? I feel that If I studied grammar using anki only I would be able to produce close to nothing. Other than learning vocab I use anki to review grammar only and keep those patterns on my head due to not coming back to previous studied textbooks (ie genki).

CarolinaCG Wrote:Wait, what?
Most people here do what? Most people here just learn how to read the kanji/word and not how to write it? I actually though everyone here focused on writing the words as well.

I can't speak for most people really, it's just the impression I get :$

For me, when doing rtk I write the kanji, when doing everything else I don't.

CarolinaCG Wrote:My sentences have new word(s) and the reading in hiragana and english meaning in the answer. Like this:

(前)
彼らは交通渋滞で何時間も立ち往生した。

(後ろ)　
じゅうたい　congestion, stagnation
たちおうじょう　standstill

My cards look like this except without the English. I can see the English by clicking on the edit button.

CarolinaCG Wrote:I actually only write due to having classes and because I feel frustrated when I know I can read that word but when I want to write it I can't. Don't you?

No because pretty much the only time I need to write kanji is on envelopes and my gas bill. When I write Japanese it's usually on my cell phone or my computer so I just need to know the reading and recognise the kanji as being correct.

CarolinaCG Wrote:Can you say almost everything you want to by means of speaking? If I see the grammar point I can use it and recognize it, but to produce sentences with it is harder (for some grammar points still not consolidated on my head).

By this I mean I'm not using the best / correct way to say something but people can usually understand what I'm *trying* to say :$ Obviously I'm not satisfied with just doing this, but for practical purposes it's ok for the meantime.

CarolinaCG Wrote:I'd like to know something from everyone who studying grammar with anki only. Can you produce sentences with grammar learned this way? I feel that If I studied grammar using anki only I would be able to produce close to nothing. Other than learning vocab I use anki to review grammar only and keep those patterns on my head due to not coming back to previous studied textbooks (ie genki).

I learned grammar from Minna no Nihongo 1 and 2 and agree I wouldn't be able to produce much without doing that.

CarolinaCG Wrote:Most people here do what? Most people here just learn how to read the kanji/word and not how to write it? I actually though everyone here focused on writing the words as well.

Can't speak for everyone, but I don't bother writing when doing reviews. When doing Recognition I see the kanji word/sentence then think of the meaning and speak it to verify I know the reading and meaning, when going the other way around I merely visualize the kanji. Since I can visualize every kanji I know I can always write it if I need to, although not as fast or cleanly (in terms of size ratio of the various components) as a native- but that's probably not an issue for the vast majority of us.

CarolinaCG Wrote:My sentences have new word(s) and the reading in hiragana and english meaning in the answer. Like this:

(前)
彼らは交通渋滞で何時間も立ち往生した。

(後ろ)　
じゅうたい　congestion, stagnation
たちおうじょう　standstill

I'm personally a fan of having the backside with the full sentence's reading (usually kanji + furigana markup via the xxfurigana plugin). I also recently wrote a plugin for automatically glossing sentences which you may be interested in (if you were adding all those vocab definitions manually).

CarolinaCG Wrote:I actually only write due to having classes and because I feel frustrated when I know I can read that word but when I want to write it I can't. Don't you?

As noted above, learn kanji->kana and kana->kanji but are merely visualizing, you can always write out the kanji if you needed to- you'll just lack the better penmanship due to lack of practice. That said, most people have terrible penmanship for their native tongue and it almost never matters in modern society. The few times it does (forms at the doctor's offfice maybe?) you can just take your time.

CarolinaCG Wrote:Can you say almost everything you want to by means of speaking? If I see the grammar point I can use it and recognize it, but to produce sentences with it is harder (for some grammar points still not consolidated on my head).

I'm still focusing on learning to recognize everything before I earnestly tackle producing Japanese, but I have almost no need for output (maybe I could use it at restaraunts?) whereas I a massive amount of potential input (books, shows, articles, games, etc). I assume most other people have a similar ratio of input to output, thus the general consensus towards prioritization of recognition over production.

CarolinaCG Wrote:I'd like to know something from everyone who studying grammar with anki only. Can you produce sentences with grammar learned this way? I feel that If I studied grammar using anki only I would be able to produce close to nothing.

Define 'anki only'. For example, thus far I read through a grammar book and then practice examples in anki. I don't see value in trying to discover grammar on my own (thus the use of a textbook) but I also don't see the value in repeatedly doing exercizes from the book when one could instead SRS the exerciszes in the book in a far more efficient manner.

astendra Wrote:I'd like to argue for the kind of time limits mentioned by a poster above, only much shorter. If you're doing vocab, try to trim your answer time down to something like 3 seconds per card. If you go above this magic number, just fail. And you will fail alot of cards in trying to adapt, but there's no reason to worry - when you hit the sweet spot you'll catch it up in no time.

I actually find it's easier to learn this way as well, since you never lose momentum. When your mind doesn't have the time to wander... well, it stays focused. Plus, you probably want to learn to read at this speed anyway.

This is pretty much exactly what I do, effectively. I usually remember near instantly or not at all, but I like to give myself the leeway for cards that have more English meanings (maybe I'm crazy but I require myself to get every English meaning on the card in the right order, mostly so I can avoid getting an impression that any Japanese words have exact correlation to any English words).

I learn this way also. I have no learning deck, I just introduce new cards everyday and fail them until I remember. I builds unbelievably strong memories, and is so low-maintenance it is incredible. The only thing is you end up failing the cards a few times before remember so your percentage for young cards ends up pretty low.

blazerqb11 Wrote:I learn this way also. I have no learning deck, I just introduce new cards everyday and fail them until I remember. I builds unbelievably strong memories, and is so low-maintenance it is incredible. The only thing is you end up failing the cards a few times before remember so your percentage for young cards ends up pretty low.

I've considered doing this but I don't seem to know enough readings, so learning new words can be a strugle the first few times I see a new reading (which is often). Mind if I ask how many words you know (very roughly) and how many tries it takes before something sticks (again, just a rough average)?