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Grammar: Tips for faster learning?

#1
So I'm hitting the grammar hard as it's the biggest area for me to learn and vocabulary and other areas are rocking along nicely.

Here's how I do it:
I have several grammar books (All About Particles; TDOJG series; A Dictionary of Japanese Particles). Basically, I am going through the Dictionary of Japanese Particles point by point adding items to my SRS and posting up 10-15 examples to Lang-8. A normal card (today's card) will look like this:

--start--
文法:「でも」[助詞」「particle」
1. Meaning 1: "Even" (Presents an extreme example of something)
1. Meaning 2: "No matter how/what..." or "regardless of that fact that" (
1. Meaning 3: After an Wh-word to indicate inclusiveness (whatever, whenever, etc.)
1. Meaning 4: "Something like..." (Making a casual suggestion.)
1. Meaning 5: "If only there were [something" or "even a little of [something]" (to say that you wish you had something; wishful thinking)
1. Meaning 6: "Not unthinkable that [something] can be done" or "[something/someone] isn't all bad" (Trying to say there is more here than meets the eye; more than can be seen in a situation).
2. Structure 1: [noun]+でも
2. Structure 2: どんな~でも
2. Structure 3: [wh-word]+でも
2. Structure 4: [noun, etc.]+でも
2. Structure 5: せめて~でも~
2. Structure 6: まんざら~でも~ or double negative situation.
3. Usage:...
4. Notes:...
--end--

This card is unfinished, but sometimes I will add examples.

What I want to know is:
1) What IS/WAS your process?
2) What suggestions do you have to improve this?
3) It takes about an hour, but, seeing this card later, I can remember the usage fairly easily and generally need to review the meaning side of things. Is a 1 hour investment to much? Obviously, if I study grammar, I lose time on other things.
4) Is there a better way you could recommend?

I know that most of the people who can/could answer this question are on the high side of Japanese and, hence, don't spend heaps of time here, but if you have time I would really like the help.

On another point, if you've never studied grammar, but are upper-intermediate/advanced in your Japanese, how did you do it? What do you think made it possible?

Background:
I pretty much follow a more "do it as it comes along" version of:
[Image: grammar_flowchart.png]
Link: http://www.streetsmartlanguagelearning.c...ammar.html
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#2
[Image: 92f0b949ce7e5ceff805b624dc1fd19e.jpg]
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#3
Any ideas on how to figure out what is useful and not useful grammar? Should I drop stuff that is not my level/or that I'm ready for?

Example:
2. Structure 5: せめて~でも~
2. Structure 6: まんざら~でも~ or double negative situation.

Is out of my league right now.
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JapanesePod101
#4
You're going about this a bit complicated i think. I tend to think simple sentence->meaning sentences are more productive and more interesting. If you want to practice production, that is fine too, but cards that test your absolute knowledge of every possible pattern all at once are a bit too abstract i think.
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#5
Your order of learning the grammar points is not gonna be very sensible, like you said you don't need to know points 5 & 6. imo the best order you'd find would be from a textbook. failing that, by JPLT level is okay.

also i really don't know how having all that info on 1 card in an SRS works... what is on the front and back of the card??

for grammar i add one card for the grammar point
front: どんな~でも
back: regardless of

then 1-3 example sentences on individual cards from a textbook / dojg / kanzen masters
front: japanese
back: english

so one grammar point has 2-4 cards. for your one card I would have 12-24 cards :$

Note this is for the simple grammar points, for conjugations textbook exercises really helped.
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#6
I just learn the grammar point, make a few exercises, repeat them in both written and oral form. Put the example sentences of the textbook into anki, during the next few days I read the sentences and say them out loud and that's it.

I'm now going through a 2kyuu grammar book and that's what i've been doing. Learning grammar became easier and faster in the past 1.5 months.

I've become addicted to japanese, I can't spend one day without listening to japanese or without learning some new grammar (and I don't mention vocab because I learn new vocab with anki every day)

That grammar card seems a liitle big to me, I personally would never do such a thing.

Take one of the uses of the grammar, type a few example sentences using it and that's it.
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#7
Consider the minimum information principle

More or less related threads:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=6773
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=5063
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=5029
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=3966

Sentence cards on specific patterns (with or without cloze deletion) seems to be a widespread method. Doesn't sound too bad to me, and it definitely seems more manageable.
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#8
I think your right. It is just too much information and I think I posted here out of internal frustration (perhaps, unnoticed). I'll have a rethink.

Reading through what people said on other posts it may be most efficient just to get the books in digital format (or scan off the pages quickly) and use a snapshot tool cut the image directly from the book (one point at a time) then add it to Anki - examples and all. I could then spend the saved excess time doing some writing on Lang-8 using the points or something similar.

@caivano: Good idea. Mind if I steal it? "wink".

@astendra: I use cloze delete for conjugations at the moment. I really feel it is a powerful technique - I'm beginning to see active learning is much more effective for me.
Edited: 2010-12-28, 9:37 am
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