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Light Therapy: anybody uses these blue lights?

#1
Could this be the holy grail I have been looking for all my life? O_O

Anybody uses these?

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-goLITE-BLU...774&sr=8-1

Do you have other recommendations (makes/models)?

PS: Fittingly, this is posted at 1:57 AM. *sigh*
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#2
I think buying $160 worth of porn would help far more than that thing.
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#3
It probably works pretty well as a placebo. If you want some sugar pills I got em.

Feeling blue? Sleep regular hours, eat good healthy food, and exercise periodically.
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#4
Seems to me if you have an extra monitor laying around, you could do the same thing yourself and save $150.

Alternatively, do it with the monitor you're already staring at:

http://www.stereopsis.com/flux/
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#5
Tzadeck Wrote:It probably works pretty well as a placebo. If you want some sugar pills I got em.

Feeling blue? Sleep regular hours, eat good healthy food, and exercise periodically.
BTW, recent studies have shown that placebos have beneficial effects for the patient, even if the patient knows they're getting a placebo! That's the power of the mind for ya.
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#6
There is something to the way the color blue makes you feel. Sitting on the beach staring at the ocean brings about a sense of calmness that few other things can match. After a heavy rain when the runoff turn the ocean brown, there isn't the same effect.
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#7
bodhisamaya Wrote:There is something to the way the color blue makes you feel. Sitting on the beach staring at the ocean brings about a sense of calmness that few other things can match. After a heavy rain when the runoff turn the ocean brown, there isn't the same effect.
I'll get a second monitor, with a blue background ^_^


Most reports have shown little to no benefit from the light generated from these, other than a placebo effect for winter depression. Anything will work for that as long as you believe it, I recommend investing in something that can multitask better ^_^
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#8
IceCream Wrote:i haven't tried it yet, but i don't think blue light therapy is a placebo at all.

There is a part of the brain called the suprachiasmatic nuclei http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suprachiasmatic_nucleus which entrains the body to the 24 hour circadian rhythm. It has been shown that changing or witholding light sources changes the circadian rhythm in other mammals so that it no longer runs in a 24 hour cycle. Many of the neurons in the SCN are sensitive to light. It is highly likely that the cycle of light and darkness entrains our sleep and wake cycles to the 24 hour day.

Different genes determine how sensitive to light the SCN is in different people (um, sort of). If your SCN isn't particularly sensitive to light, you may have some problems sleeping if you don't go out in the early morning enough, or when light is weaker, such as in winter. Using a blue light can help with this. However, the opposite is also true, if you're using a lot of bright lights at night, such as on your computer, it can delay your sleep.

Cutting out caffeine after the afternoon sleepiness also helps!!!
It's true that your circadian rhythm is affected by light--I wouldn't doubt that at all. The thing is that just because light affects circadian rhythm it does not mean that this device actually does anything.

If you follow medical studies at all, you'll see this kind of pattern: Drug companies know from studies about certain physical properties. Then they try to make a drug using the understanding of those physical properties. When they actually do a placebo controlled study testing these drugs, they find that the drugs don't work at all the vast majority of the time!

An example being the whole antioxidant thing. Free radicals seem to be bad, because they damage your cells and cell damage causes cancer. So there were studies done to establish the physical properties of free radicals. Studies also showed that antioxidants remove free radicals. This should result in less cell damage, right? So if we just give people more antioxidants cancer rates should go down.

So, then they did long term double blind studies in which the patients got antioxidant suppliments, and the control group got sugar pills. The result? People who were taking the antioxidant suppliments had a higher mortality rate--more of them died and faster. One of the major studies was even stopped early because it was considered unethical.

So it may SEEM like it will work based on what we understand about human physiology, but then it turns out otherwise.

What you would need to prove that this blue light thing works is a study that actually compares it to a placebo (maybe just a cheap 10 dollar dim blue screen), and you would need the study to explain how the people in the study were chosen, how many people there were, how the placebo was set up, how the results were blinded or double-blinded, etc. And you would need that to be published publically to be sure that the company isn't doing something funky. It says there were 'clinical trials', but I guarantee you that they weren't published publically--I smell bullshit.

So, in short, the fact that light is related to circadian rhythm doesn't mean that any given product improves sleep cycles.

Edit: Posted before I noticed the Wikipedia light therapy post from Ice Cream, which is a little harder to respond to.
Edited: 2011-01-03, 11:32 pm
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#9
I have to admit I was looking at the wrong topic.

I was looking at "Full spectrum" light therapy versus regular light therapy.

There are many proper uses for light therapy that work, some of which I have seen firsthand in the NICU

The only other thing I will mention is that on the wikipedia page it did note that the USDA has failed to recommend light therapy for seasonal depression based on unclear data from reports. This was really the only point I considered debateable, not Light therapy as a whole. Big Grin
Edited: 2011-01-04, 12:21 am
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#10
Dustin_Calgary Wrote:I have to admit I was looking at the wrong topic.

I was looking at "Full spectrum" light therapy versus regular light therapy.

There are many proper uses for light therapy that work, some of which I have seen firsthand in the NICU

The only other thing I will mention is that on the wikipedia page it did note that the USDA has failed to recommend light therapy for seasonal depression based on unclear data from reports. This was really the only point I considered debateable, not Light therapy as a whole. Big Grin
Are you talking about Bili lights? We just had a kiddo go under those tonight. Poor baby.
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#11
nohika Wrote:Are you talking about Bili lights? We just had a kiddo go under those tonight. Poor baby.
Yeah, those are them, used to treat Jaundice.

I felt bad seeing the kids with the eyecovers on, but at least they make them look like sunglasses ^_^
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#12
Dustin_Calgary Wrote:
nohika Wrote:Are you talking about Bili lights? We just had a kiddo go under those tonight. Poor baby.
Yeah, those are them, used to treat Jaundice.

I felt bad seeing the kids with the eyecovers on, but at least they make them look like sunglasses ^_^
Until they kick them off and the parents freak out... (Disclaimer: I volunteer in a postpartum unit and deal with this parents often.) (Also, bili = bilirubin, it's a enzyme-type-chemical thing that can build up. Generally not bad if mild, but if there's a flowchart to follow and if it's over = bad news).

One baby had jaundice so bad it almost went to NICU. Ouch.

Anyways. Light therapy is useful - in babies, it treats jaundice, which turns their skin yellow-ish (for anyone that doesn't know). It can (I think) lead to sepsis in some cases? That's what the nurses have said, anyways, but maybe I heard wrong.

Anyways...light therapy for restoring circadian rhythm (or changing it). I've heard of one of the nurses on my ward doing that before - she had a really tough time adjusting to nights, and it helped her body.

Edit: @Dustin - Do you work in the NICU, out of curiosity? Most people don't know a bili light from a lamp.
Edited: 2011-01-04, 1:10 pm
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#13
nohika Wrote:Edit: @Dustin - Do you work in the NICU, out of curiosity? Most people don't know a bili light from a lamp.
Actually I knew about this since I spent 5 weeks at the hospital when my girls were born. Twin girls that were 2 months early, they needed some time to finish developing and get their weights up, and I usually try to pay attention to what's going on around me, out of curiosity.

Luckily for us they pulled through VERY well and got to come home earlier than expected Big Grin
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#14
nohika Wrote:
Dustin_Calgary Wrote:
nohika Wrote:Are you talking about Bili lights? We just had a kiddo go under those tonight. Poor baby.
Yeah, those are them, used to treat Jaundice.

I felt bad seeing the kids with the eyecovers on, but at least they make them look like sunglasses ^_^
Until they kick them off and the parents freak out... (Disclaimer: I volunteer in a postpartum unit and deal with this parents often.) (Also, bili = bilirubin, it's a enzyme-type-chemical thing that can build up. Generally not bad if mild, but if there's a flowchart to follow and if it's over = bad news).

One baby had jaundice so bad it almost went to NICU. Ouch.

Anyways. Light therapy is useful - in babies, it treats jaundice, which turns their skin yellow-ish (for anyone that doesn't know). It can (I think) lead to sepsis in some cases? That's what the nurses have said, anyways, but maybe I heard wrong.

Anyways...light therapy for restoring circadian rhythm (or changing it). I've heard of one of the nurses on my ward doing that before - she had a really tough time adjusting to nights, and it helped her body.

Edit: @Dustin - Do you work in the NICU, out of curiosity? Most people don't know a bili light from a lamp.
Jaundice can eventually lead to sepsis and a few other nasty problems (Kidney/Liver failure) depending on how the jaundice came about as it's usually a result of an underlying condition.
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#15
IceCream Wrote:yes, but this is light, not a drug. Unless you have some skin condition where you can't go in the light, it's unlikely to have a bad effect.

here are some studies of which wavelengths regulate melatonin suppression:
http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/21/16/6405
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11703565

and this: http://jp.physoc.org/content/549/3/945.full

You can also check the references, and if you search google scholar, you can find a ton more. I'm not approving any particular product, but the entrainment of the circadian rhythm to light and the effects of certain types of light on the circadian ryhthm are pretty far from never having been studied properly, it seems.

As for the company "research", well yeah, definately don't trust those...!!!

EDIT: written before seeing your edit, hahah Smile
Well there's also this one which didn't find the effect to be that big when compared to placebo http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content.../55/10/883 and looking at this meta-review of past studies http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/cont...f9d320c628 says it's likely there are real benefits but one should remember that it's for a quite specific population. All of the test subjects have been chosen because their diagnose (SAD, etc.) suggests they are likely to benefit from the treatment. I'm still not quite sure the make-shift definition of what a placebo should constitute that's in the meta-review paper is good enough, either.

Re: "yes, but this is light, not a drug. Unless you have some skin condition where you can't go in the light, it's unlikely to have a bad effect." Actually, there's another issue mentioned briefly in the meta-review; potential hazards from long-term heightened exposure to different wave-lengths, and this site has a lot of info why blue (or, well, full-spectrum seems to be even worse) light is probably not the safest choice for your eyes http://www.mdsupport.org/library/hazard.html . However, while googling on this stuff I've found that pretty much no information source should be taken at face value as there are so many conflicting results coming from the research being done - especially since there's not a very high quantity of properly controlled studies. This means that whatever agenda you want to push for you can gather up some "evidence" in support of it, spice it up with some company mumbo-jumbo and make a dash for the money. Still, it seems likely that it would have some effect on your eyes in the long run and that with time there will be more and more cases of negative symptoms popping up - maybe there will be some people for which eyesight deterioration is lessened too, who knows.

In either case, I would not bet my money on this kind of thing without being able to even test to see if it has any benefit first, like if you could borrow/rent this lamp or something similar to it somewhere. Honestly, I've lost a lot of respect for you Fabrice after first the post in one of nestor's threads which said pretty much "science is dumb because they're never SURE about anything!" and now this "ohhhh holy grail" because some company is telling you that it's Guaranteed Dude and there are all these rave reviews from people who just bought a 1500$ gizmo and are bound to have placebo effects all up ins - besides, they're interspersed by one-star reviews from unsatisfied customers. If you just tug at the loose ends you find that all these guarantees are really just rewordings of the maybes in the research papers.
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#16
I have a device like this. Bought it years ago. Never use it; the light just makes me feel nauseous. I really did give it a try, but I just couldn't stand it, not even at lower intensities. Some people seem to swear by it, though.

For correcting my sleep patterns, I've found turning down the lights in the evening and getting away from the computer/tv to be much more effective, along with proper sleep hygiene. Regular indoor incandescent lighting in the evening seems to be plenty enough to delay the melatonin cycle and cause problems falling asleep.
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#17
I have a baby cousin who was born about 3 and 1/2 weeks ago, and she has had problems with her bilirubin level so she's been using a blue LED light blanket called "biliblanket" which somehow increases bilirubin elimination (I'm not sure how). Don't know if there's any relation to this but thought I'd mention it.
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