LazyNomad Wrote:

solwyvern Wrote:I went for N4 yesterday. It went quite well in my opinion.
Would it be possible to make N2 in another year?

Depends on you and your study methods. If you study next year in Japan in a language school, you will most probably pass N2 next year.

I went from approximately N4 level to approximately N2 level in 12 months, in australia while holding down a full time job (admittedly at a japanese company). I'm by no means the only one to do this (well, i haven't passed yet... but i said approximately N2 level lol). There are quite a few on this forum that went from zero to N2 in 2 years.

You will have to study hard all year though, there is a huge vocab gap between N4 and N2. You want to have around 5-7k words learned *plus* the ability to guess words based on kanji and context, because there *will* be words you still don't know in the reading section (and the vocab section... and the kanji section... :O). You also want to get to the point where you can understand spoken japanese at native speed, although generally the language used will be far simpler than what is used in the reading.

Imho, it is the reading and listening sections that require effort. If you can do well on those sections, you must have known enough to do well on the language knowledge section too (sort of). Cramming a large vocab list and a bunch of grammar points takes time, but at least that is crammable knowledge. Reading and listening require skill development, which takes a lot longer.

JLPT N1 next December for me.

I didn't take the JLPT at all this year.

I remember someone said they did Kanzen Master 2kyu and KO2001 and passed JLPT2 easily... I'm hoping to get those done by March of next year, then focus entirely for JLPT1. Doable? I'm at 700-something for KO2001.

I know N2 is a more realistic goal but I feel like taking N1 (and hopefully passing N1) is more beneficial.

deebo Wrote:although the questions in the listening drill book were much harder than the real test itself, I felt. Which is probably a good thing.

Gonna second this. Used it to prepare for the N3 yesterday, and it almost made me give up hope, but unless I fell into unexpected traps, I actually did ok.

Hopefully will be taking N2 next December. I was wanting to take either N3 or N2 this year but having a baby kind of messed that up for me, so still haven't taken any JLPT level yet. Right now I only really feel comfortable enough for N3 but hoping by this time next year I'll advance enough to take N2.

emreth Wrote:...but having a baby kind of messed that up for me...

I'm guessing that's where the 母 kanji avatar comes from?

Anyway, congratulations.

Yeah, there's always one way another that life finds a way to screw up your study schedules, eh?

kainzero Wrote:I remember someone said they did Kanzen Master 2kyu and KO2001 and passed JLPT2 easily... I'm hoping to get those done by March of next year, then focus entirely for JLPT1. Doable? I'm at 700-something for KO2001.

I finished these a loooooong time ago. I was already halfway into N1 studies and did N2 2 days ago here in Japan. My first JLPT experience and I know I failed.
So, I wouldn't say it's enough to just do Kanzen Master 2kyuu and KO2001.
But then again you also need a lot of luck.
What killed me was only the reading. Everything else was really easy for me.

After that really horrible experience that cost me around 20.000yen and 10+h of train/bus rides - I'm not sure if I wanna go through this again next year.
But if I do then July is too early for N1. Possibly N1 in December. However, I really hope they'll set up a test location closer to where I live. I really can't afford to take the test otherwise

chochajin Wrote:So, I wouldn't say it's enough to just do Kanzen Master 2kyuu and KO2001.
But then again you also need a lot of luck.
What killed me was only the reading. Everything else was really easy for me.

Not directed at you, just my general thoughts.

One problem with sentences in anki is that you get good at reading *those* sentences (not that you've memorized them, just that you've gotten used to them). Being able to recognise the meaning of that word in the context of that sentence doesn't mean you understand it in the context of a different sentence (even if the same meaning is being used). On top of that, being able to read past words you don't know, fast, while inferring enough meaning to at least know if the sentence is important or not is a totally unrelated skill.

Vocab and grammar are pieces of the puzzle. If i give you all the parts needed to make something, but you've never made one of them before, will you be able to? Will you be able to do it quickly, under pressure? What if i don't give you all the parts, will you still be able to mostly assemble something useful with it?

I had similar problems with the listening. I had all the tools to be able to do well on that section, but for some reason it just didn't come together. Too many passages i thought i understood, then struggled to select an answer.

zigmonty Wrote:One problem with sentences in anki is that you get good at reading *those* sentences (not that you've memorized them, just that you've gotten used to them). Being able to recognise the meaning of that word in the context of that sentence doesn't mean you understand it in the context of a different sentence (even if the same meaning is being used). On top of that, being able to read past words you don't know, fast, while inferring enough meaning to at least know if the sentence is important or not is a totally unrelated skill.

Vocab and grammar are pieces of the puzzle. If i give you all the parts needed to make something, but you've never made one of them before, will you be able to? Will you be able to do it quickly, under pressure? What if i don't give you all the parts, will you still be able to mostly assemble something useful with it?

I had similar problems with the listening. I had all the tools to be able to do well on that section, but for some reason it just didn't come together. Too many passages i thought i understood, then struggled to select an answer.

For sure, I agree with all of the above.
I know I said "KO2001 + Kanzen Master 2kyu = EASY TEST" but I'm aware of all the other stuff necessary to get it done.

I like Anki, I really do. But I also recognize that it's not the answer to everything. I can have a mature card in Anki for a certain word, but when I see it in reading I totally blank out and forget what it means. Same thing with grammar, and using grammar is totally different from understanding it.

I'm hoping to have all my tools in place by July or August using Anki, but I also know that speed and a variety of material is key to complete understanding.

Asriel Wrote:

emreth Wrote:...but having a baby kind of messed that up for me...

I'm guessing that's where the 母 kanji avatar comes from?

Anyway, congratulations.

Yeah, there's always one way another that life finds a way to screw up your study schedules, eh?

Yep, and thank you!

Yeah, through having a crappy pregnancy and then having a baby who loves to fight sleep, it's been hard to study Japanese much for the past year. Mostly just enough to keep my level steady. Thankfully this coming year should be a bit easier since I won't be a full time student at the same time.

I'm just going to go in test succession. My goal is to actually retain what I'm studying and to not cram to simply try and past higher levels. So, I'm aiming for the N4 next year. The JLPT is too much of an investment financially for me to simply take risks since the nearest testing center is 12 hours away by car.

zigmonty Wrote:I went from approximately N4 level to approximately N2 level in 12 months, in australia while holding down a full time job (admittedly at a japanese company). I'm by no means the only one to do this (well, i haven't passed yet... but i said approximately N2 level lol). There are quite a few on this forum that went from zero to N2 in 2 years.

You will have to study hard all year though, there is a huge vocab gap between N4 and N2. You want to have around 5-7k words learned *plus* the ability to guess words based on kanji and context, because there *will* be words you still don't know in the reading section (and the vocab section... and the kanji section... :O). You also want to get to the point where you can understand spoken japanese at native speed, although generally the language used will be far simpler than what is used in the reading.

Imho, it is the reading and listening sections that require effort. If you can do well on those sections, you must have known enough to do well on the language knowledge section too (sort of). Cramming a large vocab list and a bunch of grammar points takes time, but at least that is crammable knowledge. Reading and listening require skill development, which takes a lot longer.

That's my goal for to 2011. Do you mind if I ask you what materials did you use?
I'm a full time college student, and there are times when I can barely study japanese in order to study for oher subjects (like history of japan -_- ).

I already started adding jlpt 3 words into anki and after those I'll go naturally after the n2 ones.

I'm now studying with an integrated approach to intermediate japanese (lesson 6, lesson 8 by the end of the week) and hopefully a bunch of new lessons next week (have to make use of the time while I don't have to study for other tests : p)

I'm going for N1 in July. I gotta get off my ass and start studying.

As usual, I have no real plan of attack. I can't even bring myself to do anki reviews. But hey, no plan of attack and slacking on my reviews worked for N2.

I question whether I'll actually take the test, but I really need a new goal to get my pace up, so I've been thinking about aiming for N1 level by Dec. My only problem with this is where to acquire some good grammar knowledge. My reading is fairly good by now; I just lack a more 'formal' knowledge of any grammar beyond Tae Kim, even if I can understand it; which sort of bugs me. I guess I'll just have to get off my ass and finally order Kanzen Master...

N4 for me next year, too.

As I was hoping, the N5 helped me decide how I'm going to organize my post-RTK study for the next year. My emphasis is going to be on reading and listening, to improve those skills, and to learn new (and solidify old) grammar, vocabulary, and kanji in RL context. I really liked what Zigmonty had to say along these lines.

My problem is going to be (and has been) finding material that's interesting to me.

Merkypie Wrote:I'm just going to go in test succession. My goal is to actually retain what I'm studying and to not cram to simply try and past higher levels. So, I'm aiming for the N4 next year. The JLPT is too much of an investment financially for me to simply take risks since the nearest testing center is 12 hours away by car.

I don't think it's possible to cram for the tests anyway, at least not N1...if it's that much of an investment, maybe you shouldn't worry about JLPT3 and 4?

Ok everyone let's get some book recommendations going and more specifically what should we be studying.

PEOPLE THAT HAVE TAKEN N1 or N2 (or any for that matter)

What should we be doing to study? What skills should we be working on? Grammar? Reading? Listening? Vocab? (yes, we need all of them, but which sections are there more of?)

Based on what you just answered: What are you going to do/did you do to study? What do you recommend us to do? Let's get some detailed attack plans so that we can all bounce ideas off of each other.

My current attack plan (will most likely be modified when I see other peoples')

1. Sign up for July Test.
2. Learn about 8000 words from the old JLPT anki shared deck at 25 new cards a day (excepting weekends). I've made it to JLPT2 but I have no idea where that relates to the N2. I don't really care because all the words I'm learning are new and therefore will help me no matter what.
3. Currently reading magazines and other "light" reading materials. I'm hoping to move to fiction or something a bit later (maybe in Feb, or March once I get some more vocabulary built).
4. Starting around January or February I'm planning on purchasing a book or two directly related to the Test (RECOMMENDATIONS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!)
5. I'm using Subs2SRS to work on listening. This has the added benefit of improving my speaking because I pass the card only when I can repeat it back at (nearly) the same speed and with the same fluency.
6. Slooooowwwwwlllyy working through a college textbook which has some of the best grammar and keigo explanations I have ever encountered.

bizarrojosh Wrote:Ok everyone let's get some book recommendations going and more specifically what should we be studying.

PEOPLE THAT HAVE TAKEN N1 or N2 (or any for that matter)

What should we be doing to study? What skills should we be working on? Grammar? Reading? Listening? Vocab? (yes, we need all of them, but which sections are there more of?)

Based on what you just answered: What are you going to do/did you do to study? What do you recommend us to do? Let's get some detailed attack plans so that we can all bounce ideas off of each other.

Read native books and articles until you can read quickly (picking up as much vocabulary as this requires on the way) and watch native media until you can follow what's being said easily. Maybe go through a grammar book to be safe, but I don't remember much uncommon grammar coming up in the test, may as well just learn from native material.

Admittedly the listening part isn't too hard though, I find it's much easier than following fast, real life conversations full of slang such as on variety shows.

So, in case I don't pass N2, I want to retake it this summer, and since it looks like they'll never offer a summer JLPT in North America, I was looking at the possibility of taking it in Japan. (Why not.)

After looking at the application procedure for taking the summer JLPT in Japan, I realized that it's designed so that people like me who live outside of Japan can't take the blasted thing... well, not necessarily, but it's very difficult to do.

So here's the question: has anyone here actually done it? That is, taken the JLPT in Japan while actually living outside of Japan?

It's not impossible to do, but I would need the help of someone living there to get me an application form. I can use one of those forwarding services to provide an address, at least, to mail entry tickets and results and such back to me in the US.

This is all at the level of speculation for now, because if I pass N2, it's all moot. But if I don't pass, I want to know that I have a backup plan in place. (And for those wondering, no, I don't feel like waiting a whole year to take it again. I'm already studying.)

I did it this September. I live in America but work in Japan a few times a year, so I just used my work address (I'm good friends with the secretaries so they helped me a bit) for the paper work and that was that. You need an address and that's it, as far as I can tell. Since you book it quite a bit in advance you'll need to have a semi-long term address (order of months) for the test voucher to come to and subsequently your results. If you have _any_ friend in Japan willing to let you use their address for paperwork I'd say you're good to go. Maybe I'm forgetting a catch, but I don't think so...

K.

Thanks for the info.

All of my Japanese friends are in America at the moment, unfortunately. I'll have to talk to them to see if they can get a relative or friend of a friend to send me an application when they become available.

The address won't be an issue. The forwarding service provides you with a "real" address you can use.

One other question: How do you work out payment?

If all else fails, there's a school in Warsaw that offers the Summer/Winter JLPT as well. They don't have a whole lot of info on their site, tho.

http://jlpt.pjwstk.edu.pl/index.php

It's close enough to Germany, so I can fly over there and take care of some family business at the same time if the Japan thing doesn't come together.

JEES has posted 2011 JLPT info for those interested in taking the test in Japan. Info is here:

http://www.jees.or.jp/jlpt/jlpt_guide_2011_1st.html

TL;DR: Exam is on July 3, 2011; get the applications in bookstores in the middle of March for 500 yen, applications will be accepted from March 24-April 28 (must be postmarked by April 28), exam tickets will be sent out around June 10.

Also, the new passing standards for N4 and N5 will be decided in the first 10 days or so of February.

Going for N2 level by the end of this year or start of next. I'll take the test nearest that. Currently about N4, but progressing a lot.

Do you take those tests to motivate yourself learning Japanese or/and do you need them for applications or the like?

The new style test for N1 seemed to contain a lot more long reading passages and very few short one sentence questions where you just had to fill in the blank or just get correct kanji readings.
This means you can't really just cram kanji and vocab hoping that a really high mark in that will see you through. The best advice I could give is to try to get used to reading essay style Japanese for an hour or two without a break.

why take the test? Study motivation, to help with job applications, self satisfaction (if I pass), that's probably about it.