kainzero Wrote:

jishera Wrote:That post about JLPT and Indigo was hilarious. I'm the complete opposite of this guy right now. I've gone through 800 kanji in RTK, super basic grammar, and hardly any vocab :-). won't be taking the JLPT for a while! But if I ever do, I think kanji will be my strongest area after using RTK.

just note that...

-that entry was old. the test has changed, so it's no longer a grammar/listening/kanji test but it has grammar/listening/reading.
-knowing RTK won't particularly help, since they won't test you on a kanji and its definition straight up; but a multiple choice question where you have to choose the right word and they put 4 words with changes to only one radical. 働く vs 動く so you need to know the right word (not keyword) in order to pick out which one to use.

It always had a reading component... was he just lumping that in with grammar? And the kanji section was never *that* big. You'd have to be pretty borderline for the kanji section to cause you to fail.

Anyway, still hilarious.

PASSED N2! Woot!

No idea what my scores were, because they wouldn't tell me by email, but because of my circumstances, they did tell me that I passed.

On to N1!

drdunlap Wrote:Drawing inspiration from AJATT and, upon beginning to use RTK, the posts and users on this forum, I dove into native material beginning my second year of Japanese study and never looked back. (I'm not usually one to post on forums, however. :])
With a few months to go in my third year of study I was feeling good about my progress and took the JLPT for the first time.

N1
Vocabulary: 57/60
Reading: 52/60
Listening: 60/60
Overall: 169/180

Now I can begin learning Japanese.

Thanks for the inspiration. 8)
(and the handy website!)

@Drdunlap Just came across this post and was impressed that you made it to this point after 2 years of study. Wondering if you could elaborate (in another thread) how you went about achieving it i.e. study materials, method etc.

Thanks

rich_f Wrote:PASSED N2! Woot!

No idea what my scores were, because they wouldn't tell me by email, but because of my circumstances, they did tell me that I passed.

On to N1!

CONGRATZ!!!!~

rich_f Wrote:PASSED N2! Woot!

No idea what my scores were, because they wouldn't tell me by email, but because of my circumstances, they did tell me that I passed.

On to N1!

I didn't see your post. Gratz man
I'm still waiting for my score report/certificate <.<

Thanks.

They said they mailed them out on the 16th... I never got mine. I had to get the results by email (they would only tell me pass/fail), so I would know which exam to sign up for in December. I probably have -0- chance of passing N1, but I want to see what it's like, and since I'm in Japan anyway, might as well give it a shot.

I saw all of the new KM N2 books out at Kinokuniya in Shinjuku today (the one near Takashimaya Times Square). 5 different books for N2. They also have a whole new set of books for N1 as well. It's amazing how many different JLPT prep books you can get when you actually go to a bookstore vs. buying online. There were a bunch of other books I had never even heard of before.

dusmar84 Wrote:

drdunlap Wrote:Drawing inspiration from AJATT and, upon beginning to use RTK, the posts and users on this forum, I dove into native material beginning my second year of Japanese study and never looked back. (I'm not usually one to post on forums, however. :])
With a few months to go in my third year of study I was feeling good about my progress and took the JLPT for the first time.

N1
Vocabulary: 57/60
Reading: 52/60
Listening: 60/60
Overall: 169/180

Now I can begin learning Japanese.

Thanks for the inspiration. 8)
(and the handy website!)

@Drdunlap Just came across this post and was impressed that you made it to this point after 2 years of study. Wondering if you could elaborate (in another thread) how you went about achieving it i.e. study materials, method etc.

Thanks

Well 2.something years. 8)
I could tell you my study methods, but there are enough of those on this website already. I'll consider writing exactly what I did in the "Users study methods" thread sometime if I get time.
I just said it in a post elsewhere on the site but I'll say it again here. It's my secret(..?) to language study.

drdunlap Wrote:"There's (at least) one universal truth in language learning- keep in touch with the language as it is used by natives of that language as much as is possible and you, too, should one day come to understand the language as they do. -- The actual steps of the process must, to some degree, fit the individual."

So my secret (if we can call it that) was to make Japanese a part of me. To understand it on its own grounds instead of attempting to study it and ask it why it works like it does. Having done that for 2 years, the JLPT N1 was just what I saw everyday. I can no longer think as a "learner of a second language" but only as a "user of a second language" and thus the idea of studying for the JLPT, the idea of having an incredible amount of knowledge only to fail the JLPT- things like this make no sense to me.

I used to hate it but am now very happy with the N1 as it only asks "Don't explain it to me, but have you seen this pattern several hundred times? A native of Japanese has."

Oh, I also went to Japan, which means I soaked up all the power from particles in the air.
/sarcasm and derail off.
ごめんなさい
:|

drdunlap Wrote:I used to hate it but am now very happy with the N1 as it only asks "Don't explain it to me, but have you seen this pattern several hundred times? A native of Japanese has."

my japanese friend keeps telling me

"if you pass N1, you'll know more japanese than me."

i highly doubt that!

it reminds me of when i took a TOEIC just to see what it was like, and there was one of those multiple adjectives to a noun and you had to know the right order.

and when i saw it, all i could think was...
who uses 7 adjectives on one noun?!

kainzero Wrote:

drdunlap Wrote:I used to hate it but am now very happy with the N1 as it only asks "Don't explain it to me, but have you seen this pattern several hundred times? A native of Japanese has."

my japanese friend keeps telling me

"if you pass N1, you'll know more japanese than me."

i highly doubt that!

Right? Unless that friend has not yet graduated from middle school. Then it might mean you know more than he does.
I had a Japanese friend telling me just yesterday "I looked at some study material for that N1 you took and it looks soo haard. I mean, I'm Japanese so it was really easy for me, but I mean for foreigners right? That's just native Japanese. Isn't that hard?"

kainzero Wrote:who uses 7 adjectives on one noun?!

a big, old, green, intellectual, narcissistic, half-baked, raging dinosaur. That's who.

So I'm studying for N2 now I got the application and will send it off tomorrow. I really don't think I'll pass it this time around but should be good practice for next july. The test is basically only 2 months away and I'm just now starting 新完全マスターN2 everything except vocab. Anyone have some tips on how to use these books effectively? Suggestions for a 45 day finish plan (hella work but worth it?)

Hmm... if you're not planning to use an SRS program like Anki or Mnemosyne already, why not?!

Otherwise I say give yourself time to experiment with how you enter facts from the JLPT books into your flashcard software. It will pay off well to use a different approach to grammar than what you use for vocabulary, for example.

What I found works best for me with grammar is to enter example sentences from the grammar book on the question side of the card, and on the answer side of the card I put furigana and dictionary translations for words I don't know. Then reviewing the cards consists of marking my understanding of the example sentence, and how easy it was to remember the meaning.

For vocabulary and kanji I have the vocabulary/kanji item on the question side of the card, the translation and furigana on the other side of the card, and I must write out the word on paper each time I see it. I mark it based on how easily I was able to recall its meaning and its reading.

These are just my SRS techniques and I am not saying these are the best, merely suggesting ideas for how you could use your new N2 books :-) Like I said earlier, experiment until you find what works for you.

I have just started on the Kanzen 3kyu grammar book, and I'm wondering if it's meant to have a companion book or something. It seems like it might be geared more towards applying what you know to the JLPT test format than learning the actual grammar.

The book I have has a page for each grammar point that contains just a one or two word definition, the form of the the verb you attatch it to (I've not got past the verb section), 2 example sentences in Japanese with no translation or explanation as to what they might mean, and then some practice questions which just consist of putting the right form of a verb next the grammar point. If that's all you have to do for the exam then I guess it makes sense, but there doesn't seem to be any way to check you're understanding it properly.

There's also been one question that really threw me. In the てから section the first three sections are normal, like:

毎日食事を．．．．．．から、二時間べんきょうしています。

You just have to put the て form of 食べる in place of the dots. But the last question is different:

レポートはこの本を．．．．．．、書いてください。

１．読むと　２．読んだから　３．読んでから　４．読んであと

It turns out that the correct answer is 4, which was a surprise in the てから section of the book, but what really bothers me is that there is no explanation as to the differences between から and あと, or why あと　is right in this situation. This is what really makes me feel something is missing because even if the book was only meant to be test preperation, this would still leave me failing.

I'm actually planning on taking an A level, so I'm more interested in learning the grammar than how to apply it to the JLPT test format. I only chose the kanzen master series because I think I'll probably want to take N1 one day, but now I'm wondering if this was a mistake. Is the Kanzen bunpou series really just for test preperation?

Thanks for any help and sorry for the semi off-topic post; I figured since it was about JLPT study material this would be a good place to post it.

And of course Congrats to all the people who passed their tests. I hope to follow in your footsteps one day. =D

Splatted Wrote:Is the Kanzen bunpou series really just for test preperation?

No, not really, I'd say. I had Tae Kim previously and Genki 1 and 2 and then just continued mining Kanzen bunpou JLPT3 like that in order to accomplish the whole grammar needed for the 3rd level. I had not intended taking the exam at some point at all but now I'm glad I did it after all. I can recommend the book; it is pretty straight-forwarded and systematical.

Splatted Wrote:レポートはこの本を．．．．．．、書いてください。

１．読むと　２．読んだから　３．読んでから　４．読んであと

As it's written now 3 has to be the correct answer. Is 4 just a typo? (読んだあと？）

NoSleepTilFluent Wrote:So I'm studying for N2 now I got the application and will send it off tomorrow.

Be careful. Assuming you're in America, the deadline is based on -receiving- the application, not on postmarks. You may need to overnight it. The rules may vary in other countries.

drdunlap Wrote:

Splatted Wrote:レポートはこの本を．．．．．．、書いてください。

１．読むと　２．読んだから　３．読んでから　４．読んであと

As it's written now 3 has to be the correct answer. Is 4 just a typo? (読んだあと？）

Nope, The book says 読んであと. If the correct answer is 3 then I guess that's okay but it could be 読んだあと. Either way it's a typo, but but seems more likely since it fits the pattern of the other questions. Thanks for the help.

Tori-kun Wrote:No, not really, I'd say. I had Tae Kim previously and Genki 1 and 2 and then just continued mining Kanzen bunpou JLPT3 like that in order to accomplish the whole grammar needed for the 3rd level. I had not intended taking the exam at some point at all but now I'm glad I did it after all. I can recommend the book; it is pretty straight-forwarded and systematical.

So you didn't feel like you needed any more explanation? That's reassuring. So far the only one I didn't already know was the てから, which left me really confused, but if that was just a typo I guess it's fine

The problem is that the brief explanation doesn't seem enough to highlight any misunderstandings and the questions don't seem to test understanding at all. The ones at the back of the book seem a bit better though...

hmmm... I think I'll probably continue with it, but I'd still like to hear what other people think, whether they're reassurances or suggestions of better books.

Thanks for the replies.

Registered for JLPT N2 in December!
I'm in the same boat with a lot of you now

So happy 2 months studying!
About 65 days from now!

I used the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar series in conjunction with Kanzen 2kyuu Grammar.

I would definitely pick it up alongside any JLPT grammar book. I feel like the progression from N5 to N1 is good because it goes from common to uncommon to rare, and sometimes all you need is a brief description, but at other times a quick read through the details in DJG helps you distinguish certain differences, like さえ and でも。

The best way to really get an understanding is to see it being used in real life and you will eventually internalize it. But as it is, most grammar/vocab focused review is like planting seeds; you only really get a good understanding after you see it multiple times in different situations, which refines the current understanding you had in your head.

Splatted Wrote:I have just started on the Kanzen 3kyu grammar book, and I'm wondering if it's meant to have a companion book or something. It seems like it might be geared more towards applying what you know to the JLPT test format than learning the actual grammar.

The format of the Kanzen books is more of a "review and drill" book than an initial reference. The assumption I think is that for at least the more complicated points you have learnt most of the grammar from a textbook or some other reference (although for the simpler things that are just obvious from the examples KM alone can be sufficient). So if you feel like the explanations are a bit minimal then yes, I'd recommend finding another reference/textbook/whatever to use alongside it.

@SomeCallMeChris It's by postmark in Japan at least sent it off today can't wait to get my testing site assignment. And some call me chris as well but my name is Anthony. Funny story...

@jettyke Idk why i thought you were like fluent already and just helpful to everyone on the forum. But awesome are you in Japan as well?

So far I've been using my Japanese friends in my dorm as a reference to help explain the points to me. Act them out if necessary. I've been just throwing the Kanji words into my kanji deck with blanked out english words. I really feel like Kanji book might not be worth the time to do it because i onyl have 45 days for main study and like 15 for review. I'm comfortable writing kanji i just need to be able to read it so maybe i should just concentrate on the reading grammar and listening books. Only because I'm time limited and starting so late. If i fail this december I'll finish everything proper. Also maybe I'll pay some kid in my dorm 1000 yen an hour to input the words into my deck for me. Unless there is a list of the kanji words floating around for the N2 Book. in this format

か内　　かない　　testing the か　of 家内

I know theres the tanuki deck but i dont know where the source for their words come from and don't trust there are no mistakes.

I gotta get back to studying only have 1hr 15 min until tennis practice.

NoSleepTilFluent Wrote:@jettyke Idk why i thought you were like fluent already and just helpful to everyone on the forum. But awesome are you in Japan as well?

Hey!

I'm enrolled in APU ( Ritsumeikan Asia Pacfic Univesrity) so I live in 大分県 now. I really like this university, very unusual and multicultural. The view of the mountains from my dorm window also looks as if I live on a cloud Especially when it's misty and clouds go by and sometimes intrude into my room.

Finally sent off my application form yesterday. That thing had been sitting in my room for weeks. Why can't they just make an online system?

From 2012 they will have an online system for applicants in Japan. You will be able to register and pay online. It saves your information so the next time you take the test it will go by "smoothly" and

You can check your results online.

Detailed information on Internet application will be notified on the JEES website in the middle of January 2012.

--taken from last page of my Application guide 2011 (December)

You should quit it jettyke. You are a genius, but if you go to Univesrity, they tricked you. Better go to a University instead and ask your money back from this dubious institution that lured you into their net. Hey ...don't beat me ... no beating allowed ... I am pacifist! *whine* Seriously, I love your description of the place, its almost poetic how you describe the mist from the mountains ... *sigh, one day ...*

I don't think it would make much sense for me to take JLPT this year. But I decided to take it next summer. There is no testing site in my country, so I could connect this with a trip, to maybe London or Hungary. Haven't been in both countries for a very long time now. Italy would be equally as nice taking the test, though my Italian became quite rusty over the years ... I digress, sorry for that ...

What I want to ask is - which books should I get to prepare myself. 完全マスター books, yes. But which? If I am going to take the ２級 which books should I get? The 文法 is clear, but there are others as well, should I get them too? Can someone make a list of books recommended to get? Woud be awfully nice! How long would it take to work through the books?

And one last question, even though a stupid one, but ... Is it possible to work with any of those books, and KO2001, side by side? I don't want to waste any time, you know, and it solely depends on myself being capable to pull it off or not. Maybe what I am asking here is: Have you guys done anything on the side while learning with the Kanzen Master books, or any other books you were using to prepare yourself for N2 (recommendations are welcome), or is it so time consuming that once you started, you decided work only on those books?

Thanks to anyone willing to answer my questions!

@nagareboshi:

The ones I see the most at the bookstore are Unicom/Nihongo So-Matome/Kanzen Master. I also see the Target 2000 vocab book and kanji as well.

If you're eventually going to go take N1, you really should stick to the same series for a specific discipline （文法、語彙など）otherwise you run the risk of repeating or missing grammar.

When I was about a little over halfway done with KO2001 I started KM 2級文法。 I'm not sure about the extra time or discipline that you have but it took me about a year to finish. My goal was just to add 2 grammar points from KM 2 and 5 kanji from KO2001 every day, but there were times when I was just too tired. (I work full time.) I think that once I hit 3/4ths of the way with KO2001, KM2 really started to pick up and make sense.

I also worked through the So-Matome Vocab book. There were a lot of words in there that weren't covered in KO2001 so I think it was a worthwhile purchase.

IMO it's a waste of time to pick up a Kanji book because it's really just vocabulary; just make sure when you're learning your vocabulary you learn the Kanji forms if they're common.

I have the Unicom N1 reading and KM N1 listening. The N1 reading book is pretty nice because you actually have to reflect on the reading and test your comprehension. Yes, you can just go and read articles on the internet, but sometimes there are points you don't understand even if you understand the majority of the article. The listening book, I'm still working through and I haven't formed a opinion on it yet.