Hi,

I decided to pick up the Heisig book again starting from today im going to do 20 a day! Wish me luck guys! Im on frame 20 as we speak wohoo!

I was wondering though, i glance at the AJATT website and was wondering what is a MCD? He talks about it but i didnt understand, anyone know?

someone on twitter (per Google) Wrote:Massive-Context Cloze Deletion Cards. They've replaced all my Japanese sentence cards. 10000 sentences…is dead

Apparently you can find the secret recipe on the paid version of the site.

Good luck with RTK. :-)

Thanks my goal is within 6 months to be able to write the kanji.

Cheers!

would someone care to explain ?
I get the close deletion part
but massive context could have at least 2 meanings

thora Wrote:someone on twitter (per Google) wrote:
Massive-Context Cloze Deletion Cards. They've replaced all my Japanese sentence cards. 10000 sentences…is dead

Apparently you can find the secret recipe on the paid version of the site.

Does that mean even Khatz has finally realised the Japanese>English sentence translation method is a huge waste of time?...

Cloze Deletion cards are fill in the blank exercises right?

nadiatims Wrote:Does that mean even Khatz has finally realised the Japanese>English sentence translation method is a huge waste of time?...

no:

mikitoneko blog Wrote:he’s not changing the base method. Its more like additional steps once you’ve reached a certain level. Kinda advanced level I think from the looks of the posts about the MCDs replacing the 10k sentences. But mostly you’re seeing his experiments with things, that sort.

nadiatims Wrote:Cloze Deletion cards are fill in the blank exercises right?

yes

[edit: I guess I should have provided a link to the mikitoneko blog.]

nadiatims Wrote:

thora Wrote:someone on twitter (per Google) wrote:
Massive-Context Cloze Deletion Cards. They've replaced all my Japanese sentence cards. 10000 sentences…is dead

Apparently you can find the secret recipe on the paid version of the site.

Does that mean even Khatz has finally realised the Japanese>English sentence translation method is a huge waste of time?...

I sure hope not: If he were capable of spouting that kind of nonsense in such a blanket way, then you'd have to discount anything else he writes as rubbish.

I know I've done that before, made a mental note to disregard forum commenters with dismissive and ignorant views on self-study based purely in one-sided opinion, persistently ignoring evidence and rejecting testimonials to the contrary while using words like "crap" and "dumb" to showcase how superior their views are. ;p

Thora Wrote:

someone on twitter (per Google) Wrote:Massive-Context Cloze Deletion Cards. They've replaced all my Japanese sentence cards. 10000 sentences…is dead

Apparently you can find the secret recipe on the paid version of the site.

Good luck with RTK. :-)

The secret ingredient is people. ^_^

Could someone either explain the massive context part or show what a MCD card looks like? just to get an idea of it ?

MCD = Massive Clozed Deletion. (This is what I understand from reading the regular AJATT site and other websites.)

Having multiple sentence cards with a single or multiple grammar parts taken out. different sentence multiple parts removed for each card. Must input correct grammar point to pass card.

Simple example:
Card 1:
私＿Cranksです。
Card 2:
私はCranks__。

It's supposed to train you to think about the grammar you need. I guess it's more production based/active learning.

Note: You probably still need to translate the sentence to some extent in the beginner stages.

Note: Active Immersion would probably benefit from this.
See: http://mikotoneko.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/ajatt/ + comments.

Umm, haven't a number of us been doing that with Grammar cards for quite a while now? Pretty others and I have clozed deleted grammar and verb decks out there on Anki.

Not necessary for noun cards, as Kanji, English, or even photos are good for that with sentences in context.

How do these MCD sentences take into account the fact that some grammatical aspects cannot be decided based on a single sentence? (i.e. Cranks' simple example -- I know it wasn't meant to be a "real" example but in that case, Card 1 could be が as well, and Card 2 could be other things as well depending on how many things you're allowed to fill in.

(I'm still not entirely sure what is "massive" about this)

Yeah Nukemarine's been a longtime proponent of cloze deleting grammar, but perhaps MCD is something similar to what I mentioned here? http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...5#pid89995

yudantaiteki Wrote:(I'm still not entirely sure what is "massive" about this)

Haha, you said "massive". Ha ha ha.

It sounds like the "massive context" means you read a lot and generate the close delete sentences from your readings. At least that's how a blogger at 'kanji warrior' describes it in his article after sentences have done their job:

Quote:It's basically as if Just read a new article every day, but with SRS and cloze deletion thrown in for the words I don't know. [...]It's kind of like sentences 2.0, or the next step up from sentences. No English, all Japanese, monolingual if you will.

By tweeting "Why 10,000 Sentences Died And Gave Way To MCDs" and only describing MCD on the paid site, it would appear that Mr AJATT is trying to drum up buzz (with a misleading statement apparently) and business. The first strategy seems to be working. lol I'd like to believe the OP wasn't hoping to promote AJATT, s/he just hadn't thought of Google.

Quote:Umm, haven't a number of us been doing that with Grammar cards for quite a while now?

Yeah, folks have recommended reading and gap-filling sentences for decades, but no one was clever enough to give it a fancy new acronym and charge for it. So in that sense, it's new. :p
(But now that you mention it, N, somebook recommendations, ideas, cartoons, methods, controversies have found their way to AJATT after they've appeared here. Maybe Fabrice should get an originator's fee.)

edit: Fabrice and Nest0r :-)

Yeah I'm keeping a list. Like Brain Rules. ;p

I will expose Khatzumoto on Wikileaks. My 'generating cloze delete cards based on readings' idea has a minimal royalty fee of 1 chocolate chip cookie.

get a cookie for everyone!

I don't have a lot of cloze cards in my deck, but I have found that they are extremely useful for keeping up with verb conjugations, giving and receiving, stuff like that. Just something as simple as:

私はとなりの人にたばこを[...]ました。 （吸う）（受身）

Yes, it's not particularly creative, in that it gives me the verb and the tense, but I still have to do *some* work... namely conjugate it. And of course, I have a sentence with some context to parse as well.

I just go through exercise books like the old Kanzen master 3級, or old textbooks for random things I want to make sure I don't forget, then I'll add 20 or so exercises to my deck whenever I get the chance. (Which has been pretty rare lately, because I've been obsessing over vocab.)

The idea of leaving the blank *too* blank is problematic, but I don't see a problem with using Anki as a random quiz generator.

If you want more of a blanker fill in the blank process, then do the diary thing. That's what I'm going to do when I get home. I need to work on my writing, anyway, even if it is horrible and inane and only about the weather and the food I eat at first.

MCCD =
Same as normal clozed delete card (see post 10).
However, add at least one full sentence before and after. Done.

I'm keeping the secret ingredient to myself. More Japanese for me!

jcdietz03 Wrote:MCCD =
Same as normal clozed delete card (see post 10).
However, add at least one full sentence before and after. Done.

As I said earlier massive context could have at least 2 meaning

1: massive context for your card
you put a large quote of the text the card comes from in one of the field of your card ( expand a lot its longevity in two ways : 1 you always know what's going on 2 it's more fun because you can break the routine by reading the whole text when you feel like it . It's like you're flicking through drama, books , anime . I call it my text-based youtube )

2: massive context for your deck
you get as much input as possible and make cards only on what you have read/watched yourself .

I do both and I pretty sure that a lot of people here do both. If there is nothing else behind MCD I' afraid it's once again nothing more than marketing fluff and fancy name ...
Katz has the same problem every management/sales/communication expert has . You can't reinvent the wheel every month . But you can come up with a new name .

Katz now is only a household name . there's no doubt he's good at what he's doing and has built a brand . Most of what he "teaches" could be get for free but he's giving guidance and support . Like all brands he sells a feeling of security rather than the product itself . I m not sure if he's still very relevant to the community .

As I'm not getting a subscription to find out first hand, would "MCD" be something akin to:

1. Use subs2srs
2. Set the context option so you get 1 or 2 leading and following sentences (likely without extra audio or video info)
3. Close delete something in the primary sentence, likely a vocabulary word or phrase
4. Set up a card that shows the clozed primary sentence along with leading and lagging context sentences.
5. When reviewing, fill in the blank.

Now, what I have been doing is reviewing a new drama like the old ones: See photo, hear audio and see the sentence with a correct answer being "understand the sentence" in full.

Recently, on drama cards for dramas that I finished at least thirty days prior, I'm now taking those sentences which still have new vocabulary word or phrase (ie not in my Vocab deck) and putting the word or phrase in it's own slot. I then alter that card to become a "Vocabulary or Phrase" card that shows only that word. This helped remove all the hints that the context was giving.

After reflecting on MCD (or at least my understanding of it), I think it'll be cool to try it: If context is enough to give away a word you wouldn't know fully without it, why not let the context be the question for that word? Of course, that likely means adding in context sentences which is easy to do with subs2srs. For my existing cards, I think I'll still be ok given the small nature of the deck.

Now, I'm assuming this is not about memorizing an entire sentence. It's the idea that nugget within the context you must pry loose so that you then can apply it in any other situation similar to the context question. Plus, I don't have to do it with every sentence.

Hey peeps,

Ive got some dialogue here from a JPOD101 lesson I mustve heard at least 5 times. What would be a good way to cloze delete this bad boy?


かおる　　久しぶり！元気？
としお　　ぼちぼち。かおるは？
かおる　　ばっちり。新しい彼氏ができた。もーラブラブだよ。優しくて。
としお　　よかったね。前の彼氏はいつもイライラしてたからね。
かおる　　でもね、彼氏はイケメンだからモテモテで、ちょっと心配。
としお　　大丈夫よ！

Thanks in advance.

yudantaiteki Wrote:How do these MCD sentences take into account the fact that some grammatical aspects cannot be decided based on a single sentence? (i.e. Cranks' simple example -- I know it wasn't meant to be a "real" example but in that case, Card 1 could be が as well, and Card 2 could be other things as well depending on how many things you're allowed to fill in.

(I'm still not entirely sure what is "massive" about this)

I'm curious about this too, unless you do stuff like this?

A: 誰が田中さんですか？
B: 私[ ]田中です。

Answer: が

Something like that? I mean, there's always going to be other stuff you could put in the blank but if you know you're supposed to be putting in a particle then it's fairly unambiguous. But if you already know you need to create a card like that, then you probably already know the grammar point.

dusmar84 Wrote:Hey peeps,

Ive got some dialogue here from a JPOD101 lesson I mustve heard at least 5 times. What would be a good way to cloze delete this bad boy?


かおる　　久しぶり！元気？
としお　　ぼちぼち。かおるは？
かおる　　ばっちり。新しい彼氏ができた。もーラブラブだよ。優しくて。
としお　　よかったね。前の彼氏はいつもイライラしてたからね。
かおる　　でもね、彼氏はイケメンだからモテモテで、ちょっと心配。
としお　　大丈夫よ！

Thanks in advance.

Depends on what you want to learn. Pick one word that you can remember to insert based on the context. The idea is stuff you close delete is a new word, or a way of using a word based on the context. Q4 and Q5 are just different words in the same sentence, so create a card for each one. Q1 and Q2 tests a word while Q6 tests a way a word is used when it comes to getting a new boyfriend. The answer is not just about filling in the blank, which assumes you know why it's used to fill in the blank.

By the way, this is all assumption on my part. It makes sense to me now, but may not hold up with actual reviewing.

Q1
かおる　　久しぶり！元気？
としお　　[...]。かおるは？
かおる　　ばっちり。新しい彼氏ができた。もーラブラブだよ。優しくて。

Q2
としお　　ぼちぼち。かおるは？
かおる　　ばっちり。新しい彼氏ができた。もー[....]だよ。優しくて。
としお　　よかったね。前の彼氏はいつもイライラしてたからね。

Q3
かおる　　ばっちり。新しい彼氏ができた。もーラブラブだよ。優しくて。
としお　　よかったね。前の彼氏はいつも[...]してたからね。
かおる　　でもね、彼氏はイケメンだからモテモテで、ちょっと心配。

Q4
としお　　よかったね。前の彼氏はいつもイライラしてたからね。
かおる　　でもね、彼氏は[...]だからモテモテで、ちょっと心配。
としお　　大丈夫よ！

Q5
としお　　よかったね。前の彼氏はいつもイライラしてたからね。
かおる　　でもね、彼氏はイケメンだから[...]で、ちょっと心配。
としお　　大丈夫よ！

Q6
としお　　ぼちぼち。かおるは？
かおる　　ばっちり。新しい彼氏が[...]。もーラブラブだよ。優しくて。
としお　　よかったね。前の彼氏はいつもイライラしてたからね。