Tsundere would also imply that we are alternating between showering praise and criticizing. Tsudere does not mean "secretly love", though many characters who are secretly in love are also tsundere.

I guess that misunderstanding demonstrates a problem with a study method that omits them thar book lernin' for anime

bodhisamaya Wrote:Since the two recent threads that have been critical of AJATT have been closed, the 1~3 threads started on average every month praising it should be also. This should go for all future ones as well. Otherwise, some troll might want to give equal time to alternate views.

Why? AJATT is by far the best documented method for self learning Japanese.

Come up with a better idea and document it and then maybe we can stop talking about it. Otherwise a discussion on learning Japanese is always going to include talk about the AJATT methodology.

AJATT is not a method invented by Khatz. "All____ All The Time" is one of the most commonly used marketing phrases in history. Complete immersion into a language is hardly a groundbreaking idea. I can't imagine him recommending a more well-known strategy. His site is inspirational speeches and a list of suggested learning materials. As a personal hobby, and for what income he gets from his nonstop donation requests and advertising links to learning materials he recommends, it is harmless.

tokyostyle Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:Since the two recent threads that have been critical of AJATT have been closed, the 1~3 threads started on average every month praising it should be also. This should go for all future ones as well. Otherwise, some troll might want to give equal time to alternate views.

Why? AJATT is by far the best documented method for self learning Japanese.

Come up with a better idea and document it and then maybe we can stop talking about it. Otherwise a discussion on learning Japanese is always going to include talk about the AJATT methodology.

Hahahahahahahaha

This post made me spit out my coke all over my keys,well done. You people don't know when to let things die do you? Want this old thread to get closed too? If people are that stupid to get robbed of their money they deserve it. They're probably the same kind of people who think they having a winning ticket for cash from a honda giveaway newsletter they got in the mail.

[ファブリス]

please shut up about ajatt and help me find a way to fight the company making flea treatment products that killed my cat, and many others:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid148355

For goodness sake. No one is interested in the same few people (Bodhisamiya, Jarvik, Nestor et al) moaning over and over about AJATT. We get it, you hate it and want to tell people you hate it, you've made that perfectly clear - move on. If you all want to circlejerk then do it via PM, or better yet create your own internet forum/blog and do it there.

tokyostyle Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:Since the two recent threads that have been critical of AJATT have been closed, the 1~3 threads started on average every month praising it should be also. This should go for all future ones as well. Otherwise, some troll might want to give equal time to alternate views.

Why? AJATT is by far the best documented method for self learning Japanese.

Come up with a better idea and document it and then maybe we can stop talking about it. Otherwise a discussion on learning Japanese is always going to include talk about the AJATT methodology.

AJATT really isn't a method, it's just the name of a blog. Sometimes people use it loosely as a label to refer to self-studying Japanese, but the strategies and resources used vary in quality and type. The core stuff unique to AJATT seems to mostly just be a neurotic avoidance of English and an obsession with incomprehensible input, both of which go against documentation of effective language learning.

I don't think Tefhel's comment was really an insult. The conversation is a circlejerk at this point:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph...circlejerk Wrote:7. Circlejerk
A group discussion or activity between like-minded individuals that validates mutual biases or goals in a non-confrontational environment.

Give it a rest dudes. The old thread was closed several pages after everyone ran out of anything new to say. You're just Jared at this point.

[ファブリス]

Tefhel Wrote:For goodness sake. No one is interested in the same few people (Bodhisamiya, Jarvik, Nestor et al) moaning over and over about AJATT. We get it, you hate it and want to tell people you hate it, you've made that perfectly clear - move on. If you all want to circlejerk then do it via PM, or better yet create your own internet forum/blog and do it there.

My exact feeling right there.

The AJATT bashing thread was all about nestOr, bodhisamaya and a few others.

More than the pointless arguing what I dislike is that a few voices literally take ownership of this place, and bully anyone else into agreeing or shying away from participating in the forum!

ファブリス Wrote:

Tefhel Wrote:For goodness sake. No one is interested in the same few people (Bodhisamiya, Jarvik, Nestor et al) moaning over and over about AJATT. We get it, you hate it and want to tell people you hate it, you've made that perfectly clear - move on. If you all want to circlejerk then do it via PM, or better yet create your own internet forum/blog and do it there.

My exact feeling right there.

To me, you seem to be very one sided about this, and you also seem to be encouraging disrespectful behaviour to other forum members. I don't really understand why you'd do that.

[ファブリス]

Ok you guys need a ban to take a little breather? Sounds like you don't have the discipline to do it yourself. I sure wouldn't mind.

Any thread that goes on for 20+ pages of circular arguing deserves to be closed. I don't think there is a conspiracy on the part of ファブリス here. I think i'm happy just saying "a fool and his money are soon parted". Either these guys get the results they're paying for or they won't. I stopped caring dozens of pages ago.

ファブリス Wrote:Ok you guys need a ban to take a little breather? Sounds like you don't have the discipline to do it yourself. I sure wouldn't mind.

I have the discipline not to rave and childishly insult a particular group of users. I don't have the discipline to stay quiet if I think someone, even you, is being personally disrespectful. If you are asking me if I need a ban, so to speak, well, since I seem to be at the end of a very long fuse, feel free to just delete nest0r and ruiner instead, like you mentioned here: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid142570

Edit: Don't forget the wiki.

zigmonty Wrote:Any thread that goes on for 20+ pages of circular arguing deserves to be closed. I don't think there is a conspiracy on the part of ファブリス here. I think i'm happy just saying "a fool and his money are soon parted". Either these guys get the results they're paying for or they won't. I stopped caring dozens of pages ago.

I think this sums it up pretty much. I don't see how it can go further than this.

Unless I am missing it, why can't we delete our own profiles?

It seems to me that this has been a back and forth argument between people defending AJATT and people attacking it, as well as both sides arguing about whether the other side was acting inappropriately. I don't understand how one party is more at fault.

One side can be right and the other wrong about the merits of AJATT, but surely both sides are responsible for the sheer length of the argument and the fairly hostile attitude.

If one side shut up so would the other, regardless of which side shut up first.

I think banning anyone would be inappropriate. I also think that deleting your profile would be acting harsh. Really, are threats the civilized way to solve this? Surely THESE things are what destroy the morale of a forum, not whether or not one of the six recent topics happens to be an argument about AJATT (which can easily not be read by people who are annoyed by it).

I didn't think that the other thread needed to be closed when it was, but Mr. Fabrice gave plenty good reasons for closing it, and when the Admin says the discussion is over, it's over. It's his call to make, and common sense forum etiquette that you don't just continue the argument in another thread.

I think it's clear where I stand in my opinion of AJATT, but the AJATT-bashers who are still hanging on are just being juvenile at this point. I know how much it tears you up to think of how wrong AJATT's supporters are, and how being the ones in the right, you're the only ones who have the prerogative to say anything antagonistic. But let it go. It's over.

I agree that it was a faux pas to continue the argument in a different thread, and that there were good reasons to close the thread (although, I would have liked the closing post to be phrased a little differently).

But, my stance on threats about banning and deleting accounts is that they will only make things worse. Those are the things that make me want to quit a forum.

ファブリス Wrote:More than the pointless arguing what I dislike is that a few voices literally take ownership of this place, and bully anyone else into agreeing or shying away from participating in the forum!

I agree with that - since I began lurking here I've certainly noticed there are a number of users with high post counts whose opinions/'methods' are *always* right, and they often state them in a rude manner (and god forbid should anyone disagree). It certainly makes me not want to participate, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

This is a forum about Japanese language learning - so personally I think the environment should be supportive with constructive discussion (constructive being "Oh, personally I think X because Y" or "Well, I do XYZ, and that works best for me" - not "That's completely wrong and absolutely ridiculous to think X, because of these OBVIOUS reasons ABCDEFG..."). And for the most part it is a supportive & helpful forum, but there are a few 'bad apples' who occasionally ruin things.

Tzadeck Wrote:But, my stance on threats about banning and deleting accounts is that they will only make things worse. Those are the things that make me want to quit a forum.

I think Mr. Fabrice was only talking about a temporary ban. Sometimes forum members need a timeout when they get rowdy. I've been banned from this forum myself on one occasion.

[ファブリス]

nest0r Wrote:(...) well, since I seem to be at the end of a very long fuse, feel free to just delete nest0r and ruiner instead

No, I think you need to take a breather, quite clearly. You're getting way too invested in this. The emotions are not to be trusted, and the mind has its limits nestOr... however smart it may be. For starters, it will happily convince "you" that there is such a thing as a nestOr when all there is is a forum profile, a bunch of posts, and a human being consisting mostly of a biological body and brain, typing on a keyboard, following all sorts of trains of thoughts that started in the early years of life.

Anyway... if you want your entire forum profile deleted please send a PM here or through main site feedback form.

bodhisamaya Wrote:Unless I am missing it, why can't we delete our own profiles?

Users can't self delete an account because... because it's not already implemented in PunBB that's why. Also, it may be abused. And as can be seen here, and with IceCream before, sometimes you just get a little emotionally invested in this. I can get pretty cranky myself if I play MMO's for too long without spending time outside

nestOr, I will also NOT delete your profile this week, but only if you send me a reminder in a week from now. As you evidently need to take a break from the forum right now. Your account WILL be deleted if that's what you want.

[ファブリス]

JimmySeal Wrote:I think Mr. Fabrice was only talking about a temporary ban. Sometimes forum members need a timeout when they get rowdy. I've been banned from this forum myself on one occasion.

My real name is just Fabrice, and that is correct. Of course I didn't mean to delete or perma-ban, just a temporarty ban. That is a standard "practice" to help people take a little break

The link nestOr provided above, which may cause doubt, is a topic about a spammer. Of course a spammer account gets deleted. I've never deleted any legit member's account unless specifically requested to by said user.

[ファブリス]

Tzadeck Wrote:But, my stance on threats about banning and deleting accounts is that they will only make things worse. Those are the things that make me want to quit a forum.

A temporary ban is standard practice AFAIK. It's not so much a threat as helping the forum member in question to take a breather. Closing a topic is supposed to achieve the same thing, but if the participants can't take a hint, a temporary ban is necessary.

As for whom gets the (temporary) ban stick, I'm sorry but I'm not perfect. The discussion takes many participants, so the ban helps everyone, it's not to be taken too personally.

ファブリス Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:But, my stance on threats about banning and deleting accounts is that they will only make things worse. Those are the things that make me want to quit a forum.

A temporary ban is standard practice AFAIK. It's not so much a threat as helping the forum member in question to take a breather. Closing a topic is supposed to achieve the same thing, but if the participants can't take a hint, a temporary ban is necessary.

As for whom gets the (temporary) ban stick, I'm sorry but I'm not perfect. The discussion takes many participants, so the ban helps everyone, it's not to be taken too personally.

You need the Cave your trolls plugin for PunBB