Hi everybody, I have a question: does anyone write out only the "+1" part of the sentence when doing production? Am I the only one who doesn't? Doing so would drastically cut my review time and let me add many more sentences per day but I'm scared that then I wouldn't really be assimilating the grammar, the placing of particles, the flow of a sentence etc.

Any opinions? One thing to keep in mind is that I haven't developed much of a feel for Japanese yet, having only 1019 facts in my Anki deck right now.

I generally only write out the vocabulary that I remember the card having been made to test.

I generally write out the sentences when I start reviewing and I am still fresh. It is actually great practice to do this. I will also write out the sentence if the grammar is peculiar.

I think it is ok to just write out the word/s you are learning most of the time, but when you read/listen to the sentence, make sure you are absorbing the meaning. It is easy to get into the habit of ignoring the meaning of the sentence and just looking/listening for the words that are new. The important thing is that you understand every sentence.

Why don't you just try to write out the first ten reviews or something a day. No need to write out hundreds of sentences to keep up your kanji skills.

In my case it isn't so much for kanji skills. When I go from audio to kanji, writing out the sentence imprints the sentence and grammar in my memory much more strongly.

Out of curiosity, how many new sentences do people add a day?

I was adding 10 a day, but I found it quite a struggle to complete each day's drill within a reasonable time plus to get them generally correct, so now I've cut back. I was even thinking of limiting myself to say 50 questions a day, and only add new ones when the number I get asked drops below that.

What are others experiences?

Raichu Wrote:Out of curiosity, how many new sentences do people add a day?

I was adding 10 a day, but I found it quite a struggle to complete each day's drill within a reasonable time plus to get them generally correct, so now I've cut back. I was even thinking of limiting myself to say 50 questions a day, and only add new ones when the number I get asked drops below that.

What are others experiences?

I add as many sentences as I feel like which can be any range from 0 to 50. However, I'm still doing RtK, so I'm not entering any difficult sentences, just the first ones from KO to see how AJATT feels and how KO feels. When I'm done with RtK, I'm going to start mining my own sentences and I will probably have to cut back a lot.

I've been doing 65 new cards per day, so 32.5 facts, since I've been practicing both Kana-->Kanji and Kanji-->Reading. As one might expect, I am now completely swamped in reviews, so this certainly isn't something I'd recommend. I plan to lower it to around 20 cards a day, and stop reviewing Kana-->Kanji until I can think of a better way of doing so.

Edit: Perhaps I'll re-add the Kana-->Kanji cards for some facts, where it feels necessary, or simply switch them all to that model and drop Kanji-->Kana. Having two cards for each sentence is really exhausting. Any thoughts on this?

hknamida Wrote:I've been doing 65 new cards per day, so 32.5 facts, since I've been practicing both Kana-->Kanji and Kanji-->Reading. As one might expect, I am now completely swamped in reviews, so this certainly isn't something I'd recommend. I plan to lower it to around 20 cards a day, and stop reviewing Kana-->Kanji until I can think of a better way of doing so.

Edit: Perhaps I'll re-add the Kana-->Kanji cards for some facts, where it feels necessary, or simply switch them all to that model and drop Kanji-->Kana. Having two cards for each sentence is really exhausting. Any thoughts on this?

Yeah, I just do kana-kanji when I study jukugo I think I will have trouble remembering the combination of kanji for. In all probability, kana->kanji isn't really needed at all, long before I started doing RevTK I could always remember what kanji were needed for a compound, the problem was actually writing the kanji. But still, in the start it can be a good idea to do it with hard words.

I still go both ways, kana<->kanji, because I notice that sometimes I can write the kanji from the kana, but I'll still have problems recognizing the kanji and saying the right kana aloud, but yeah, it does slow down reviewing that way. I'm staring at 275 cards for review right now. Whee.

One thing I'm trying to do more of is keep the sentence size/length down to something manageable, so I don't spend more than 20-30 seconds on a sentence at the most.

Raichu Wrote:Out of curiosity, how many new sentences do people add a day?

I was adding 10 a day, but I found it quite a struggle to complete each day's drill within a reasonable time plus to get them generally correct, so now I've cut back. I was even thinking of limiting myself to say 50 questions a day, and only add new ones when the number I get asked drops below that.

What are others experiences?

I've been adding around 100 a day so far. If you think your reviews are tough, try doing 300+ cards a day. But today I'm going monolingual, so that's going to drop a lot.

I honestly think that if you are doing 100+ reviews your cards are too easy, OR by some chance you are doing separate decks(ie one for sentences, one for quick vocab, etc). Over a hundred of straight GOOD sentences that actually challenge you even a bit is extreme. So I'm not picking you out exclusively but I believe that if you are able to do that much you are probably doing them wrong, or just using cards that are just easy as hell, might as well just read something.

It's definitely easy to get through 100+ reviews if you "timebox" them. I use RLC Blitzer, and even reviewing 400 kanji a day isn't much of a problem (I even hit 500 one day!).

Well you're talking about just Kanji reviews right? That's different.

Erubey Wrote:I honestly think that if you are doing 100+ reviews your cards are too easy, OR by some chance you are doing separate decks(ie one for sentences, one for quick vocab, etc). Over a hundred of straight GOOD sentences that actually challenge you even a bit is extreme. So I'm not picking you out exclusively but I believe that if you are able to do that much you are probably doing them wrong, or just using cards that are just easy as hell, might as well just read something.

Four reasons:

A) I know all the onyomi readings
B) I was going through UBJG (finished now)
C) I wasn't monolingual yet
D) I used RLC to mix them in with new ones (this is surprisingly effective)

Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean I'm doing it wrong. I'm quite sure I was doing it correctly.

I add 30 a day, and have like 100-200 to review a day. The recognition cards are a breeze, the production cards are a bit of a pain though. For the production cards I remember the word and then the kanji that make up the word. So I guess production cards cover the kana=kanji cards every one else does.

If my reviews back up, I suspend recent sentences, get the older reviews out of the way, then slowly unsuspend sentences and do those reviews.

cracky Wrote:I add 30 a day, and have like 100-200 to review a day. The recognition cards are a breeze, the production cards are a bit of a pain though. For the production cards I remember the word and then the kanji that make up the word. So I guess production cards cover the kana=kanji cards every one else does.

Man I HATE production cards with a passion. I had about forty, then eventually deleted them all. I really can't be bothered to do them. I really think the cons outweigh the pros, in terms of time.

Nukemarine, why not just let them sit there? If you use Anki, the priorities are already sorted and taken care of. It's probably better to have a big queue of items to review, because Anki already shows high priority cards when they need review. I also think that newer cards are more subject to forgetting, and that forgetting an old card is better (if you learned something before and forgot, it'll be easier to re-remember than remembering brand new material. This is backed by research the German guy did here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Ebbinghaus
It's called "savings")

It encourages me to get them done, that in itself is reason enough. Another is perhaps I added too much, too soon. By suspending them, I catch up and create a pace I can now handle. It's akin to not clearing out the failed pile in RTK. YMMV.

Truth be told, I'm probably starting a new list using the iKnow sentences, with occasional grammar point sentences from UBJG.

alyks Wrote:

cracky Wrote:I add 30 a day, and have like 100-200 to review a day. The recognition cards are a breeze, the production cards are a bit of a pain though. For the production cards I remember the word and then the kanji that make up the word. So I guess production cards cover the kana=kanji cards every one else does.

Man I HATE production cards with a passion. I had about forty, then eventually deleted them all. I really can't be bothered to do them. I really think the cons outweigh the pros, in terms of time.

Maybe. I have it set so production cards don't show up for after the recognition cards. So I get to review the recognition cards a few times first before ever seeing it, then I also have the sentence diagramed out. They're still tough but after I can recall words from a production card I have no problems using the word in conversation.

I have only finished 400 kanji in RTK 1 but from previous experience I know the meanings of other kanji.

I just started using the SRS for Japanese sentences and went straight into J-J explanations.

Using Sanseido is a great idea. Here's an example of what I did for a card :

Q: かれ の ひ・てい・てき な い・けん に しつ・ぼう した。

A: 彼の否定的な意見に失望した。

For this particular card I didn't understand 「否定的」, so I looked up the word in Sanseido.

ひてい ［否定］

〈スル〉 打ち消すこと

What's this? Well, look it up.

うちけ・す ［打ち消す］

〈五〉 （１） 消すの強調． （２） 否定する

Look! There's the same word I'm looking up(#2)! So look up「強調」(I already know 「消すの」.

きょうちょう ［強調］

〈スル〉 （１） 強く主張すること． (類)力説 （２） 調子を強めること．

Hey! I know 「調子」! So look up 「強める」.

つよ・める 3 ［強める］

〈下〉 強くする． (対)弱める

Finally, I understand 「強くする」and can put it all together.

I'm sure after I finish RTK 1, it'll be much easier to "get a feel" for the meaning of the sentences I choose.

Hey,

I'm not actually yet done with RTK1 (a little over halfway) but am looking forward to where to take my studying afterwards. I'm very intrigued by this AJATT method yet I have a few very stupid questions in regards to the actual cards you would make and put into Anki.

Am I right in thinking that I would have something like this as a card:

Q: 日本に行きたいんですけどお金がありません。

A: にほん に いきたい んです けど おかね が ありません。

行 - い
金 - かね
[Any grammar explanations/vocab I might have been unsure of.]

Have I got the basic idea? If so, how would I go about learning the material? Say I had chosen a sentence with a few unknown kanji readings/compounds in. Once I had looked them up and put in the full readings etc in my answer, how would I then "learn" the sentence?

Finally, is it a good idea to ensure you find various different readings of the same kanji when you add one into a sentence so that you always have the two (or more) readings covered?

Thanks

Pete171 Wrote:Hey,

I'm not actually yet done with RTK1 (a little over halfway) but am looking forward to where to take my studying afterwards. I'm very intrigued by this AJATT method yet I have a few very stupid questions in regards to the actual cards you would make and put into Anki.

Am I right in thinking that I would have something like this as a card:

Q: 日本に行きたいんですけどお金がありません。

A: にほん に いきたい んです けど おかね が ありません。

行 - い
金 - かね
[Any grammar explanations/vocab I might have been unsure of.]

Have I got the basic idea? If so, how would I go about learning the material? Say I had chosen a sentence with a few unknown kanji readings/compounds in. Once I had looked them up and put in the full readings etc in my answer, how would I then "learn" the sentence?

Finally, is it a good idea to ensure you find various different readings of the same kanji when you add one into a sentence so that you always have the two (or more) readings covered?

Thanks

More or less that's how you could do it, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with your template. However:

1) at the beginning you may find it less taxing using English definitions of the words you don't know, taken possibly from an online dic. If you feel comfortable without the English, however, all the better!
2) giving only the readings like that is not worth it imho: they are already given with the reading of the whole sentence
3=1+2) It's better to put definitions (in English or Japanese), but only of the things you really think you will need to re-read in the future. If you know the word or think you could easily remember it, don't bother. And if you don't feel like putting definitions for a sentence, then don't put anything. Just the (anki-auto-generated) reading for the sentence. That's how I do it at least.

I've basically just started the sentences, less than a fortnight ago. At the moment I'm struggling quite a lot - my vocabulary needs a lot of work, so I'm failing a lot of cards.
With audio, sometimes I hear the start, and just remember the rest from when I've inputted it, so it kind of feels like I'm cheating - I haven't actually heard the sentence and understood it.

I think I'm going to set up a seperate Anki deck, just for vocab. That way I can make really quick cards, for really quick review, to really drill those words (verbs especially) into my mind.

Perseverance!