Hello, first off, let me introduce myself. I am your humble Sexcellence. Secondly, I'd like to input the way I've studied Japanese over the years and see what others think of my progress. I've always been curious during my time learning Japanese as to how well or poorly I've been doing it (I think it's the latter, by comparing my progress with those of others on this board that I've seen). I'd really just like to see if the progress I'm making is in the norm? Conventional? Time consuming? Good? Bad? I haven't a clue! That's why I've decided to post here. :D

So Let's see, I've been studying Japanese for 4 years. That's from starting out as a pure amateur, not even sure if I'd just keep it up or just lose interest in it, writing down hiragana 100s of times to remember them. Eventually, I remembered them all (within months, maybe 6-9? Honestly, I don't remember much from this stage). I was also going over grammar in this stage as well, albeit, with a poor understanding, which ultimately pushed me into a confused state. After learning hiragana, I was convinced that I had "learned" the writing system of Japanese (boy, was I wrong). I was all confused, thinking "Why can't I still make some of these symbols out?" Then it dawned on me about kanji. I was pleasantly surprised. Anyway, after learning hira, I started kata, which I considered sooooooo much harder to learn than hira. Without any luck on it, I had only remembered the first sets or so and kind've quit for a while.

I tried picking it back up, trying to learn grammar, kata, and kanji to no avail. Then I started again between the second and third years of my endeavor with this language. Around this time, I was reading different text books and started the Basic Kanji Book. I figured that if I was going to be able to read Japanese sentences and understand the underlying grammar and ideas behind them, I'd first need to know a good amount of kanji. The way I saw it: it'd be better to learn an alphabet before trying to read a language without knowing some of the characters (for example, trying to read English while only knowing 21 letters). With this principle in mind, I tried the Basic Kanji Book and even though I only got through 120 kanji in this round, It DID help me with Kata. My knowledge with Kata characters was small before using it and the way the book used Kata for the On-readings REALLY helped me grasp kata on the same level as hira (nowadays I try to imagine words written in both hira and kata when I think of them).

Around this time, during the beginning of the third year, I had stopped again (My progress has always been full of hodgepodgery when it came to stopping, starting, etc). The third year was just a lax year for me, occasionally studying tidbits of information here and there. So a few months ago, I decided to get serious. This constant trial and error process I've taken over the past years has REALLY helped me (at least, in my opinion) when it has come to "unlearning" and understanding concepts with grammar and overall, languages themselves.

Around June, I decided to go to the kanji land site and write down the first 60 or so (I wasn't really serious, I was just bored), but then this resparked my interest and attention on the subject. I decided to try something I had never tried before, THE CUSTOM FLASHCARD APPROACH! I had made flashcards for the entire first grade kanji with the flash cards folded in half hamburger style; the kanji on one side, always in a different color for that extra memory aid, and the on and kun readings written on the flap behind the one with the kanji written on it (kun-reading in hira, on reading in kata). Behind the card, I have the english meanings written down as well. I have also been using the kotoba tool from the iphone app store as an aid in constructing these cards and also memorizing them (along with Kanjiland). To my surprise, this method worked better than any method I have ever used in the past when it came to memorizing them. In the past, I would have just written the kanji down a hundred times to try and remember it, but this is both time AND ink consuming (yay gelpens).

After being comfortable with my knowledge in the first grade, I'd decided to move onto the second grade cards. This was around the time I found this site and actually tried the Heisig method, as recommended by a friend. I read the first bits of the book and decided that this method was not for me. I don't know, the idea of learning kanji in English first was repulsive to me, seeing how I could remember the kun and on readings of the first grade in such a small amount of time and with such progress. I feel this method is better for me.

(sidestory) I've also recently picked up Anki and found it pretty useful with the core2000 deck.

It is the end of November now, and I've completed 3rd grade, pretty much (440 kanji). I will be constructing my 4th grade as soon as I feel that I can promptly write 3rd grade to a great level.

What I plan on doing from here on out is remembering the first 1000 or so kanji (VERY FEW COMPOUNDS AT FIRST), then focusing on radicals and compounds. I hope to master the first 1000 kanji by May next year. I'm also going to keep up with the anki flash cards and see where they take me. I also started a class this year with a chemistry teacher that also knows Japanese and lived there for 3 years. I guess he's become somewhat of a mentor to me now, since he has helped me with kanji that I didn't know how to grasp/use (like 申) and other concepts that I wasn't too sure of.

I feel that right now, dedication is my best friend. The first few years of struggling have helped, definitely. I'm studying French right now and brushing past it very easily, and I'm sure that the struggle with Japanese grammar and different grammar concepts in general have made me better at absorbing other languages, somewhat.

Well, that's that, I guess. I'd like to hear some of your opinions and thoughts on the matter. How would you rate me, what would you suggest? Any input is welcome. :3

As you might expect there are many people here who have used RTK and think it's worth doing (myself included). I don't think RTK is essential though, but it does make things easier.

It's hard to evaluate how well things are going for you without knowing how much time/day you put in. If you put in 1~2 hours a day for a year and went through RTK, did some immersion and Core 6000 you could have progressed faster IMO. How much time do you put in?

About an hour to two a day, as much as I can. Some days, I skip it all together since I'm swamped with work from classes in school some of the time (I'm in my last year of highschool and am taking harder classes this year). If I can't do flash cards or any other resource, I try to at least remember something in japanese mentally to myself during the day.

Also, another thing I'd like to point out, my grammar is still not entirely "there", as you would put it. I found the Tae Kim guide to be VERY helpful for grammar, but I never really completed it. :P

Edit: As in I'm not familiar with the causitive and those other forms. Other than that, I can read the sentences in the core 2000 and understand them pretty well (it seems a bit easy).

Why are you studying Japanese? What are you going to do with it? Basic motivations are important, and are what keep me putting in the hours in spite of the aggravation.

The most important thing you need is something to make you stick to whatever method you choose. No matter how brilliant you think your method is, if you don't stick to it, it won't do you any good.

Even a mediocre method will yield stellar results if you stick to it religiously. (Conversely, the most brilliant method will yield poor results if you don't put in the hours routinely.) Find a way to create a routine.

Create Japanese environments where you can. It means choosing Japanese media over English-language media when you can, and forcing yourself to use them, even if you have trouble making heads or tails of them. You can find a lot of free stuff on the internet, both podcasts and publications. (Legal.) If you're willing to spend money, there are books and videogames as well.

It all adds up over time.

There's a cheater's way to get the benefit of RTK without all of the work-- learn the labels of all 250 or so radicals, and don't bother to learn the kanji keywords. Even labeling radicals is a huge aid for plowing through unknown kanji.

I originally started studying it so I could read Japanese roms. As of now, I just want to learn it to have it under my belt, plus, I'd like to simply be able to read it with its increasing use over the internet, not to mention for manga, and to communicate with some friends who've majored in it. I also think that my interest in the language is also keeping me motivated. To me, it's kind've fun. Remembering kanji is like building your own personal dictionary.

I feel that I HAVE been sticking to my custom flashcard method and it has done wonders for me. I never before thought flashcards would have worked for me, but they've helped me more than any resource I can name right now. For every grade I've gone through, it has become increasingly easier. In fact, I'd expect myself to be done with grade 4 by the end of December if I devote all of my time to it. I've only just recently picked up Anki as a supplement to my learning and for retention. I'm only testing out this new medium and so far, I really like it.

As for radicals, I'm afraid to touch them right now.... D:

The thing is, knowing the radicals will allow you to tear down kanji and put them back together again on the fly, and there's only 250 of them. It's not nearly as bad as you think it is. You could probably do it in a month if you made some time for it.

I never bothered to do all of the radicals, but I did most of them by doing RTK1 a few years back, and it just makes picking up kanji *much* easier than it was than before I did it. I don't remember a lot of the English keywords for individual kanji (I replaced most of them with Japanese), but I do remember the ones for the radicals, and that helps me remember the odd ones or the ones I encounter in the wild.

Take the kanji for your avatar, "あじ." You've got what's essentially "口" (which we'll just call mouth) on the right, and "未" (which we can call "not yet") on the left. Not so scary now, is it? Make up your own perverted story to get "taste/flavor" for あじ.

Once you can recognize primitives, you can also see patterns in 音読み and 訓読み for characters. Some primitives will *sometimes* carry sounds along with them (mainly in 音読み). It's not always reliable, but sometimes it can help you. (And sometimes it can trick you.) But it will help you learn words faster.

Here's a good example: 中 is ちゅう (middle) for our purposes. 中国 ちゅうごく is China. 忠告 is ちゅうこく　(advice). It has the same 中 radical hidden above 心 こころ (heart), and is also pronounced ちゅう.

Anyway, this sort of thing is like oiling a sticky door hinge, or waxing your skis (or surfboard). It just pre-wires some neural pathways to make things easier.

I see. I have noticed the radicals and I have remembered some (not the names of radicals). Like I can tell that a tree is a tree and that a fish is a fish. It's pretty easy to see for some already and I feel I have that concept of putting them together down; but, I guess it couldn't hurt to try radicals next, or at least half of them. There are still kanji that get me, like 軽. I ALWAYS forget the radicals on the right side. I guess I'll go look into them now! : D

I'd like to note that RTK isn't learning kanji in English.

When you need to drill yourself on something, you need a memory hook. Something to tell you to recall the fact your trying to remember, RTK is all about using English hooks to remember how to construct, break apart, and write Kanji. You also construct visual stories made up of other memory hooks based on other primitives to help remember a new kanji your learning. It's genus and beautiful at what it does. However, the visual stories aren't necessarily needed, just learning the kanji in the order RTK presents itself in is a great boon to learning. As it builds upon itself in a well made order. Of course it isn't designed to teach you Japanese. But you don't even need to do all 2k kanji to get benefit from it.

There are options like RTK Lite (which focuses on half of the most common kanji with the same order and benefit) and Japanese Keywords that you might want to take a look at.

Anyway, I suggest you consider trying some form of it before tossing the idea in the circle file and deciding it's not for you.