This is my 5th day studying Japanese.
I've learned Hiragana and Katakana, gone through the iStart Japanese app, finished the "Absolute Beginner" series on JapanesePod101. I've compiled notes/grammar/vocab from all of this and am currently putting it all into Anki decks.
I have Remebering The Kanji in the mail.

I study about 10 hours a day. No, I don't get burned out on things very easily - my previous obsessions were guitar and Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and I dedicated 6+ hours a day to those for years. I'm addicted to improvement, 10 hours a day might fall to 4 hours a day if I hit a plateau and get a little discouraged.
I'm starting a Japanese 1 class in August. It's 5 units, for free basically. I expect it to be mostly review as I should be way ahead of the class. They use the Genki 1 textbook, which I've heard is pretty good. I'm also going to be working with a tutor 4 hours a week; I also have a (native) Japanese girlfriend, if it makes any difference.

I'm not sure what to work on with my tutor. I'll likely want to spend some time on pronunciation. But what then? I initially thought I'd go through word lists with her, but decided that I should save word lists for after I finish RTK. I've been listening to a lot of J-rock/pop/electronica and as of right now I'm planning to have her help me translate and understand my some of my favorite songs. This way I can sing a long to them while I'm in my car, have fun with it, know what they're saying and help my listening comprehension/pronunciation. Thoughts?

I've heard of getting through 1,000 J-E sentences. Is this a book with a deck that coincides with it? I've got NukeMarine's guide bookmarked and have watched a lot of his videos.
I just want to make sure that I'm using my time as efficiently as possible.

Thanks!

[s0apgun]

invidious Wrote:I'm starting a Japanese 1 class in August. It's 5 units, for free basically. I expect it to be mostly review as I should be way ahead of the class.

This will mostly be a waste of time, go to it though and take from it that self-study is the best way to learn a language.

invidious Wrote:I also have a (native) Japanese girlfriend, if it makes any difference.

This is a huge advantage. Appreciate it to the fullest because having a native person to practice speaking with will advance you quickly.

invidious Wrote:I study about 10 hours a day. No, I don't get burned out on things very easily

Despite your supernatural ability to not get burned out. I would split your time in half to study and the other half for media/enjoyment. Both are equally important IMO especially when moving from intermediate to advanced. For your study time spending extended time on one thing can suck. I'd say split your anki time into 3 parts. RTK, CORE/KO2001, Tae Kim/Grammar. That way you can have a good complete understanding as you progress. I did RTK for hours a day and when I look back at it I wish I had done it along side CORE.

Anki will be your best friend if you're trying to use your time wisely. Pick up some simple manga books and the book Japanese the Manga Way. Listen to a lot of Japanese podcasts rather than music. Music doesn't usually include normal pronunciation, plus one can only handle so much J-Pop. Most of all have fun with it and good luck!

Do rtk... No more than 50/day via anki

Spend the rest of the time watching anime/doing other things in Japanese until you finish rtk.

Ask your gf to speak to you in Japanese as much as possible. She is the key that will (if she's patient) help you get to a functional level faster than any of this lifehacking business.

Are you this guy??? ;-)

There are a lot of good suggestions in that thread as well.

s0apgun Wrote:This will mostly be a waste of time, go to it though and take from it that self-study is the best way to learn a language.

I still need units for my Bachelor's degree, there are 3 japanese classes, 5 units each. That's 15 units for doing something I'm already going to be doing - and it can't hurt, right? If not Japanese classes, I'd be taking electives that will take time away from my Japanese studies. I need 60 units to transfer to UCSD as a junior, I have about 36 right now. So 3x Japanese, plus a few electives and I'm at a university.

s0apgun Wrote:Despite your supernatural ability to not get burned out. I would split your time in half to study and the other half for media/enjoyment. Both are equally important IMO especially when moving from intermediate to advanced. For your study time spending extended time on one thing can suck. I'd say split your anki time into 3 parts. RTK, CORE/KO2001, Tae Kim/Grammar. That way you can have a good complete understanding as you progress. I did RTK for hours a day and when I look back at it I wish I had done it along side CORE.

Study (equal parts):
RTKanji / deck
Tae Kim/Genki grammar
iknow.jp core 6k vocab (deck?)

Pleasure:
manga/"Japanese the Manga Way"
J-music (learning [to sing and play on guitar] songs, writing my own eventually)
dramas/anime

What do you think?
I'd really like to watch anime similar to "Death Note". It's less "over the top", probably similar to a live-action drama. Do you know of any more? Should I watch with English or Japanese subtitles? Is it hard to find them with Japanese subtitles? I heard you can "copy/paste" from the subtitles, how is this possible?
Which manga should I start with? I'm guessing kid stuff, but is there anything with a combination of gruesome/funny/horror (a la Shaun of the Dead, Zombieland - not necessarily zombies though)?
Does iknow.jp have its own Anki decks, or are they user created? Where can I find them for download?

s0apgun Wrote:Listen to a lot of Japanese podcasts rather than music. Music doesn't usually include normal pronunciation, plus one can only handle so much J-Pop. Most of all have fun with it and good luck!

Buuut, I'm a musician! If I know the word, I usually notice that they pronounced it funky. I was listening to Akikaze Sentimental for an hour or so yesterday, and noticed that he elongates the "uuu" sound in "desu" rather than having it be virtually silent. I want to find hiragana lyrics so that I can follow along with songs.

partner55083777 Wrote:Are you this guy??? ;-)

There are a lot of good suggestions in that thread as well.

Wow, I wish he lived in San Diego instead of Miami! We could be a dynamic duo. Haha.
Thanks for the link, really helpful
I plan to visit Tokyo approximately 1 year from now (or sooner, depending on how serious GF and I get). I plan to move to Japan about 2 years from now. I would like to be conversationally "fluent" in 1 year (JLPT N2?).

What is the best way to use iknow.jp?
More specifically, how should I pace myself?
When I see an example sentence and there are words I don't know, should I also look these up? If there is a grammatical component I don't understand, should I look that up as well? Possibly make note of it and research it on Tae Kim's later on?
What about copying down each sentence with pencil and paper?

EDIT: just read that I can download the "kore 2k/6k" deck for Anki which has all of the iknow.jp material loaded up. "File > Download > Shared Deck" doesn't work for me here at work (where I get 60% of my studying done - lucky me!), so I'll have to try it when I get home.

I'm trying to go down the fast track as you are starting to now. I joined this site on Jan. 29 and went through RTK1 in about 2.5 months. I used this site to learn and study the kanji without writing them at first. This took about 1.5 months. I then used Skritter for about 30-40 days to facilitate learning the stroke order. Almost everyone does the writing at the same time so I would probably recommend doing that and just taking maybe a little longer to finish it in one shot. At the same time that I was studying RTK1, I went through Genki I and II while taking notes and studying its vocabulary. I have by no means memorized all the Genki grammar rules. I have to get back to it. At that time, I also did the memorizing of the words in hiragana from Genki, ignoring the kanji I didn't know yet.
I just looked at my history on iknow.jp and I started on March 24 . I'm now at Core 3000, step 5 (so at 2500 words). Genki I & 2 pretty much covers the grammar for iKnow! and you don't need to be too nervous about words you dont know yet as they usually come down the line (look them up up, but you don't have to memorize them yet). I'm putting in a ton of time, maybe 4-5 hours a day on average these days. I'm finding it extremely challenging. It could be that I am a bit slow at it. I consider myself good at studying as I excelled at an ivy league university but I am more mathematically inclined. I'm trying to keep going at it. If things go well, it will take me 9 months total (back-dated to March 24) to finish Core 6000. Hopefully by then I will completely soak in Genki (do all the exercises and memorize)i and also study Tae Kim's guide. I was just at Kinokuniya bookstore the other day and picked up the Kanken Master N2 grammar book that Nukemarine recommends. I won't even attempt to look at that until I finish all my other tasks. To me, learning the 6000 words is the hardest. And I have to use sub2srs and the other things that Nukemarine recommends.
I don't think I can make it in a year total for everything for N2. But it may just be I am not that good at learning languages as others. I'm enjoying my time spent. It may be taking me longer as when I review on iKnow!, I write the each word down, reinforcing my memory and kanji usage. If you have any questions about the iKnow! site, let me know.

This despise of music/lyrics as a learning tool is just stupid. Sorry, couldn't help it.

PotbellyPig Wrote:I'm trying to go down the fast track as you are starting to now. I joined this site on Jan. 29 and went through RTK1 in about 2.5 months. I used this site to learn and study the kanji without writing them at first. This took about 1.5 months. I then used Skritter for about 30-40 days to facilitate learning the stroke order. Almost everyone does the writing at the same time so I would probably recommend doing that and just taking maybe a little longer to finish it in one shot. At the same time that I was studying RTK1, I went through Genki I and II while taking notes and studying its vocabulary. I have by no means memorized all the Genki grammar rules. I have to get back to it. At that time, I also did the memorizing of the words in hiragana from Genki, ignoring the kanji I didn't know yet.
I just looked at my history on iknow.jp and I started on March 24 . I'm now at Core 3000, step 5 (so at 2500 words). Genki I & 2 pretty much covers the grammar for iKnow! and you don't need to be too nervous about words you dont know yet as they usually come down the line (look them up up, but you don't have to memorize them yet). I'm putting in a ton of time, maybe 4-5 hours a day on average these days. I'm finding it extremely challenging. It could be that I am a bit slow at it. I consider myself good at studying as I excelled at an ivy league university but I am more mathematically inclined. I'm trying to keep going at it. If things go well, it will take me 9 months total (back-dated to March 24) to finish Core 6000. Hopefully by then I will completely soak in Genki (do all the exercises and memorize)i and also study Tae Kim's guide. I was just at Kinokuniya bookstore the other day and picked up the Kanken Master N2 grammar book that Nukemarine recommends. I won't even attempt to look at that until I finish all my other tasks. To me, learning the 6000 words is the hardest. And I have to use sub2srs and the other things that Nukemarine recommends.
I don't think I can make it in a year total for everything for N2. But it may just be I am not that good at learning languages as others. I'm enjoying my time spent. It may be taking me longer as when I review on iKnow!, I write the each word down, reinforcing my memory and kanji usage. If you have any questions about the iKnow! site, let me know.

My main question is: do I actually need to purchase the membership and use the site? Or will I get the same benefits from using the Core2k/6k Anki deck? I have Hiragana 90% memorized but get mixed up with some of the voicings now and then. Loosely memorized katakana, but need to go back and review it. Do you think I should still pick up Remembering the Kana to stamp it more firmly in my brain?

I finished JapanesePod101's Absolute Beginner 1 series in 2.5 days. I wrote every word they taught down in an excel spreadsheet. There are 140-170 words, and it also taught grammar. I'm unsure if I'll continue with it, but I do like that it has native speakers, teaches words in context, and also teaches some grammar. Although, I learned a lot more grammar from the "iStart Japanese" application - which I'd highly recommend as an introduction for anyone beginning to learn Japanese. I have the entire series of JP101 downloaded, so it won't cost me anything but time. I like that I'm starting to feel overwhelmed with learning sources.
core 2k/6k (iKnow), "japanese the manga way"/manga, skritter, podcasts, music, RTK1-3, RTKana, JP101, Genki1-2/actual class, iStart app, WordUP app, Anki + app

Inny Jan Wrote:This despise of music/lyrics as a learning tool is just stupid. Sorry, couldn't help it.

not sure what you mean by this. expand?

invidious Wrote:My main question is: do I actually need to purchase the membership and use the site? Or will I get the same benefits from using the Core2k/6k Anki deck? I have Hiragana 90% memorized but get mixed up with some of the voicings now and then. Loosely memorized katakana, but need to go back and review it. Do you think I should still pick up Remembering the Kana to stamp it more firmly in my brain?

Most people here use the Anki deck. I'm not the biggest Anki fan but will use it for words outside the Core 6000 from iKnow!. I guess I like the presentation from iKnow! better. Don't overwhelm yourself with a ton a books. I would stick to RTK studying and grammar studying from either Genki or Tae Kim to start off with.

To me it looks like you are on the right track I would just increase the amount of listening that you are doing. Try and want stuff in Japanese without subtitles. Anime,Drama, Variety Shows. One of my variety shows is 世界の果てまでイッテQ.

s0apgun Wrote:

invidious Wrote:I'm starting a Japanese 1 class in August. It's 5 units, for free basically. I expect it to be mostly review as I should be way ahead of the class.

This will mostly be a waste of time,

Nice to know that koohii.com never changes.

I got the RTK, Tae Kim and Core 2k/6k deck working now and I have the RTK book in my hand.
Does 30 words per day from Core2k/6k per day, 1 lesson from RTK, ~2 hours of grammar study on Tae Kim/with Genki and drama/anime/podcasts/music/manga the rest of the time sound too ambitious? Let's say, for a good 8 hours a day.

8 hours a day sounds like a lot and you may burn out. But it is all up to each individual. I would get a headstart on RTK and learn some kanji before you start the Core deck. The idea of RTK is to make the kanji familiar to you so its easier to study the vocabulary. I did Genki and RTK together first before I started Core 2k/6k.

[s0apgun]

Inny Jan Wrote:This despise of music/lyrics as a learning tool is just stupid. Sorry, couldn't help it.

What despise? Podcasts are a better resource for learning real spoken/conversational Japanese. Either way, music is just one part of many things learners should be using in an immersion environment.

yudantaiteki Wrote:

s0apgun Wrote:

invidious Wrote:I'm starting a Japanese 1 class in August. It's 5 units, for free basically. I expect it to be mostly review as I should be way ahead of the class.

This will mostly be a waste of time,

Nice to know that koohii.com never changes.

I took 6 years of Japanese classes. I learned more in 6 months of self-study through methods taught on here than during those 6 years. Not to say it was completely pointless, I learned a good amount but for someone on a rat race they will exceed classroom Japanese very quickly.

invidious Wrote:

Inny Jan Wrote:This despise of music/lyrics as a learning tool is just stupid. Sorry, couldn't help it.

not sure what you mean by this. expand?

1.

s0apgun Wrote:Listen to a lot of Japanese podcasts rather than music. Music doesn't usually include normal pronunciation

2.
Count number of responses in this thread:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=7499

3.
And a couple of responses from:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=8710

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid154204
"so that's an example of a song with useless vocab? that's what you're trying to say?"

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid154309
"I will mention though - songs don't really help with ordinary listening comprehension or the ability to speak."

No, I didn't find those opinions useful - in fact, I think they are harmful to your learning process because of their lack of understanding that music/lyrics, if done in an organised fashion, can be one of the easiest way to acquire new language skills.

Just know that once you commit to iKnow and get far into it. You'll be stuck with it. There isn't a way to port over to Anki later on.

Inny Jan Wrote:No, I didn't find those opinions useful - in fact, I think they are harmful to your learning process because of their lack of understanding that music/lyrics,

You make it sound like there's something "magical" about lyrics that no one has discovered or fails to admit. But I think the caution about relying heavily on music, is to be well mentioned. Its great for raising your comprehension, but as many people have pointed out, it doesn't necessarily reflect how you would speak to people. It really comes down to the artist, some write very stylistically and sing just as stylistically, making them really bad examples to try and mimic.

[s0apgun]

I'm still going to with the fact that 99% of the time you will be speaking Japanese and not singing it. I never said to listen to podcasts and try to transcribe them. The activity of listening to normal conversational Japanese is purely to allow you to parse what is common or sounds correct when speaking from a subconscious level.

No hate on the learning the language from music method because of the fun factor. I have a large plethora of Japanese music in my playlist. However for the OP's sake, I think he would benefit faster from podcasts considering he is going down the road of traditional vocabulary consumption.

That's also the reason why I recommended he pick up some easy manga. Manga is written in a way that mimics everyday speech and conversation, which allows you to take that in and process it at your own pace. This helps overcome understanding commonly spoken Japanese, that in the beginning can be hard to grasp even with quite a bit of vocabulary under your belt.

yudantaiteki Wrote:

s0apgun Wrote:

invidious Wrote:I'm starting a Japanese 1 class in August. It's 5 units, for free basically. I expect it to be mostly review as I should be way ahead of the class.

This will mostly be a waste of time,

Nice to know that koohii.com never changes.

It's just that those of us who don't think classes are a total waste of time usually can't be bothered to refute throwaway comments like this.

This is soooo simple. Let me summarize...

1. Yes Japanese music is better for japanese listening comprehension than English music.
2. No it's not better than Japanese conversation.
3. Don't do anything in the extreme.

I would personally apply the third point to OP with his study. I'm too lazy to dig them up but this place is full of threads following overachievers who wanted to do n2 in a year and eventually quit altogether because they had 3,000 anki reps/day. chill out and go talk with your gf in Japanese.

more important that any of this 'how to' discussion, is just that one is making some kind of steady progress on a daily basis. You then get into a rhythm and simply let time pass...when you do get to the point that you are doing it you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

dtcamero Wrote:1. Yes Japanese music is better for japanese listening comprehension than English music.
2. No it's not better than Japanese conversation.
3. Don't do anything in the extreme.

Thanks dtcamero, you saved me from writing long response on the music subject.