Greetings my fellow japanese learning colleagues.

I am looking for a comprehensive list of all characters that the japanese simplified in '47. A quick search resulted in only converters, but i want a complete list, if possible. Does anybody know of such a list, or own one?

Thanks for your time!

Jorre

Section D of Michael Pye's _The Study of Kanji_ (ISBN 0893462322, out of print I think but available secondhand) has a big list sorted into different kinds of simplification, but you probably wanted an electronic list.

Well, a printed list would be fine too, but it would be a lot easier to just get a hold of a digital file. But thanks anyway, i'll see if I can find that book somewhere.
Any body else any suggestions?

-Jorre

I hope this covers them.
It's got a lot, but I'm not sure how comprehensive it is:
http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/new-old-kanji.html

That seems about right, perfect! just what I was looking for.
Thanks a lot!

-Jorre

Asriel Wrote:I hope this covers them.
It's got a lot, but I'm not sure how comprehensive it is:
http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/new-old-kanji.html

cool

That webpage has 266 characters listed. Pye's chapter has 650... (and even that isn't comprehensive, I've just noticed that some of his classifications include phrases like "more than 50 examples, eg". Otherwise your list would have to include every kanji with the road radical because it lost one of its dots, every kanji with the cloak radical because the top stroke went from a horizontal to a vertical line, and so on...)

I always thought that the japanese did a non-comprehensive simplification? ie, a fixed set of characters, unlike the chinese who simplified a theoretically infinite set of characters?
anyway, i also got the idea of just inputting all heisig kanji in a shinjitai to kyuujitai converter, and checking for sameness in OOo calc, and i got 266 characters that were different, and about twenty or so in RTK 3, IIRC.
I only needed a list of all *official* shinjitai, as i would think that there is indeed an unbounded set of *unofficial* simplified characters.

As for that road radical, i've seen chinese fonts where there is one dot too, as well as japanese fonts where there are two dots on certain kanji. Odd.

Asriel Wrote:I hope this covers them.
It's got a lot, but I'm not sure how comprehensive it is:
http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/new-old-kanji.html

I found this page very rough on my brain, with all the characters in one big blob, so I converted its contents into XML and made an XSL that grouped the characters in a more readable format:

http://jimmyseal.net/misc/Kyujitai.xml

For anyone interested...

jorrebenst Wrote:I am looking for a comprehensive list of all characters that the japanese simplified in '47.

Are you interested specifically in the 当用 kanji list? Because the 常用　kanji list you're using will include simplified kanji which weren't included in the 当用　list.

pm215 Wrote:That webpage has 266 characters listed. Pye's chapter has 650... (and even that isn't comprehensive,

So when wikipedia says the 1981 Jouyou had a total of 355 新字体, does that refer to the number of new forms rather than kanji?

wikipedia : 常用漢字表が告示された時点で、新字体に改められた旧字体（正字体）の総数は357字（「辨」「瓣」「辯」が「弁」に統合されたため、新字体の数としては355字）となった。

Thora Wrote:

jorrebenst Wrote:I am looking for a comprehensive list of all characters that the japanese simplified in '47.

Are you interested specifically in the 当用 kanji list? Because the 常用　kanji list you're using will include simplified kanji which weren't included in the 当用　list.

As far as I know the japanese only did simplifications in '47, not afterwards, so my guess would be that any kanji that got simplified in the touyou kanji would be included in the jouyou kanji, unless some were scrapped. I just wanted a list of all kanji within the jouyou kanji list (or also the jinmeiyou kanji, doesn't really matter, just *official* simplified characters, at *this* moment in time) that are not traditional characters.

I meant that kanji were added to the list in 1981 and of those that could be simplified according to the 1949 simplified forms, almost all were. I now understand you're interested in the current list.

If you want a comprehensive current list of simplified kanji, you might want to sort out the numbers. 266 doesn't sound right. The simplification wasn't 100% consistent, so you can't based it entirely on forms. Also, do the converters count simplified kanji that are actually old kanji characters as new or old?

Well, I used this site:
http://yurara.kir.jp/material/kanji.html

And it seemingly converts japanese kanji into chinese traditional characters (from what i can make out from my extremely primitive japanese), so it shouldn't make any distinction between whatever flavours of japanese simplifications there are...
Can't vouch for it's exactness though = P

But what do you mean by

Thora Wrote:The simplification wasn't 100% consistent, so you can't based it entirely on forms.

?
I don't quite grasp how you could *not* base comparisons on forms?

Thora Wrote:

pm215 Wrote:That webpage has 266 characters listed. Pye's chapter has 650... (and even that isn't comprehensive,

So when wikipedia says the 1981 Jouyou had a total of 355 新字体, does that refer to the number of new forms rather than kanji?

wikipedia : 常用漢字表が告示された時点で、新字体に改められた旧字体（正字体）の総数は357字（「辨」「瓣」「辯」が「弁」に統合されたため、新字体の数としては355字）となった。

Your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps the wikipedia count doesn't include characters which had very trivial tweaks (like the 'cloak' radical)?

[Katsuo]

I made a spreadsheet with variant data. There are 1,242 entries with variants taken from the common JIS set of 6,355 kanji.

In the column with multiple kanji, "Variations", the more common/standard character is usually on the left side. I added RTK numbers for the convenience of those who are familiar with the book (kanji not in RTK are numbered "9999").

pm215 Wrote:Your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps the wikipedia count doesn't include characters which had very trivial tweaks (like the 'cloak' radical)?

Are you sure it's the cloak radical you're thinking about? The altar radical is a horizontally squished 示 in older characters, but I don't think cloak would have ever had a horizontal first stroke, given that it's based off of 衣.

Asriel Wrote:I hope this covers them.
It's got a lot, but I'm not sure how comprehensive it is:
http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/new-old-kanji.html

Hi that is my page.

I got the information from this website:

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ax2s-kmtn/re...chara.html

I don't remember if I added anything to that list.

I'm not sure how comprehensive it is either, but it's better than nothing.

If anyone wants a machine-readable list, there is one here:

http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/BKB/Lingu..._kanji.txt

This is part of a larger Perl module:

http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Lingua::JA::Moji

JimmySeal Wrote:

Asriel Wrote:I hope this covers them.
It's got a lot, but I'm not sure how comprehensive it is:
http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/new-old-kanji.html

I found this page very rough on my brain, with all the characters in one big blob, so I converted its contents into XML and made an XSL that grouped the characters in a more readable format:

http://jimmyseal.net/misc/Kyujitai.xml

For anyone interested...

I definitely think your format is better, so I imitated it & updated the page.