How do YOU SRS grammar? What do you put on the front/backs of your cards? How do you arrange things?

I was thinking of doing a JLPT-style, with a question with a close-delete and leaving four choices at the bottom - a, b, c, d style and doing it that way, along with being able to translate it/understand. Either that, or put the grammar thing on the front, and figure it out from there. Maybe.

Close-deletion can work, but not with multiple-choice.

http://ankisrs.net/docs/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.html

Quote:Can I do multiple-choice questions?
Multiple choice questions are a poor learning tool for a number of reasons. The reason they are commonly used in an academic setting is because they are easy to mark, and they allow the person studying to demonstrate their ability to recognize the correct answer even if they can’t produce it themselves.

Furthermore, good multiple choice questions have well chosen "distractors" - answers that are similar to the correct answer. A computer can look for similary spelt words, but it is not capable of chosing good distractors for more complicated topics.

If you are studying for a test and you have a sample test with a multiple choice question like the following:

Q: What animal has a really long neck?

A: 1. A monkey. 2. A giraffe. 3. A donkey. 4. A snail.
Then that question should be rewritten in Anki as follows:

Q: What animal has a really long neck?

A: A giraffe.

But anyway, I haven't really bothered with grammar in SRS. I figure enough exposure to grammatically correct sentences and a couple years of HS level Japanese (from ages ago), I'll figure it out somehow.

question : audio reading
answer : japanese
meaning : lengthy grammar explanation from a dictionary or my personal experience

I managed to memorize my jlpt 2 grammar this way and I think thats the reason I passed, but it also made my japanese a little funky cause i was a little "too good" with using archaic and out of place grammar.

Essentially i memorized the sample sentences, which gave me something to reference on the test

I'm srsing grammar from tae kim to my production deck(i.e. close deletion). I'm going to do that for JLPT format/questions. So basically when it comes time to write it, either this summer or winter. I'll blaze through it.

i guess i do fill in the blank:
Ｆｒｏｎｔ：老け＿見えて
Ｂａｃｋ：　て

虹ちゃんを好き＿は相葉くんですよ
なの

今やバラエティ番組では＿ない存在に
欠かせ

恋愛インタビュー＿マジで答えるな
に

もうかけて＿でください
こない

ネタを次から次＿考えるのは大変だと思うんだ
へと

I have no problem understanding it,,,, it's just i know i would be able to create that sentence or sentence structure with the grammar thing or i would be really unsure.

it's from my post here:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=4943&page=4

ta12121 Wrote:I'm srsing grammar from tae kim to my production deck(i.e. close deletion). I'm going to do that for JLPT format/questions. So basically when it comes time to write it, either this summer or winter. I'll blaze through it.

How do you plan to cloze delete it?

nohika Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:I'm srsing grammar from tae kim to my production deck(i.e. close deletion). I'm going to do that for JLPT format/questions. So basically when it comes time to write it, either this summer or winter. I'll blaze through it.

How do you plan to cloze delete it?

Here what I'm doing:

（例） 友達　→　友達じゃない →　友達じゃな[...] (was not friend) (Question card)

（例） 友達　→　友達じゃない →　友達じゃなかった (was not friend) (Answer card)
Negative(Non-Past) to Negative(Past)




I'm still working on adding more cards/more formats, so it will take sometime. But I'm eventually will be prepared for JLPT 1 this summer or winter(haven't decided when to take it yet)
Since I've already been learning jp for more then I year, I understand grammar a lot better now.

This is a good topic and I hope others will contribute.

The way that works best for me now is a sentence/grammar approach:

front of card:

This is basically a sentence or something from the wild that I pick up and and add to the deck. for example

食べた？

back of card:

the back has the meaning, 2 or three sentences explaining the grammar, how to use it, and then moer examples (I usually always have more examples on the back of the card). for example.

"did [you] eat?

To talk about something in the past in casual style we conjugate verbs by adding "た”　or ”んだ”

飲んだ　- drank
書いた　- wrote
買った　- bought"



thats about it. yeah, the above isn't a great explanation but it's just a made up example to give you an idea of how I do my cards. They are much more complicated than this. also the content in this example isn't really correct so don't copy the actual content and add it to your srs.

I found it hard to study with clozed delete and gave up on it after a few months. I don't like it because there are often multiple ways to say the same thing.

For now I just study recognition.

Front - A sentence from a grammar book with the grammar point in question underlined
Back - Meaning of the grammar point plus some notes

i also do recognition.

front: the sentence
back: the translation

if there's something i really don't understand when i review, i pull out the DOJG and read over it and fail it. i try to emphasize speed of comprehension as the driving point, even moreso than vocabulary.

i hope this gets me ready for JLPT. production i'm not worried about; that'll happen when it needs to happen, and JLPT doesn't test it anyway.

Never really felt the need to SRS grammar..
The set of raw grammar to be remembered is sufficiently small that exposure did it for me. Much of what is called grammar is just functional vocab or expressions.

bizarrojosh Wrote:thats about it. yeah, the above isn't a great explanation but it's just a made up example to give you an idea of how I do my cards. They are much more complicated than this. also the content in this example isn't really correct so don't copy the actual content and add it to your srs.

Did you underline the grammar you were focusing on, or just looked at the whole sentence?

And thanks guys! The main reason I'm hoping to SRS it is that I don't have too much time to study constantly (more than an hour a day) and Anki is easier and more portable on my Android than the DOxJG/other books I own. So far I'm looking at doing DOBJG/DOxJG in the order that JMW introduces things.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Never really felt the need to SRS grammar..
The set of raw grammar to be remembered is sufficiently small that exposure did it for me. Much of what is called grammar is just functional vocab or expressions.

I've noticed that as well. In the beginning a lot of grammar made barely any sense but now I'm past the 1 year mark for learning jp and I've noticed that grammar isn't anymore. Just a lot of reading is probably sufficient for learning it well.

I think the useful grammar actually worth learning, the core syntax explaining the particles and and how the different word relate to each other within a clause could probably be summarized in a couple of pages. After that it's all random exceptions etc. If you've ever had the misfortune of wasting a bunch of time on JLPT1/2 study materials you'll realize half of the so called grammar is actually just various verbs in 'て form' and various obscure particles, all of which is easily understood by just looking up the meaning of the words in question.

When I crammed for the JLPT -- which results I am still waiting for so who knows how effective it truly was -- I put all the sentences of a particular point. (もとづいて for example) and put notes on the back including the grammar point's meaning, usage and where it comes up.

It worked well with recognizing them and it was fast. Because all the sentences were bundled into groups if I got one thing wrong I would have to see the card again. So I got a lot of repetition -- which was what I wanted. But I think if I had more time to prepare I would have done things differently.

gyuujuice Wrote:When I crammed for the JLPT -- which results I am still waiting for so who knows how effective it truly was -- I put all the sentences of a particular point. (もとづいて for example) and put notes on the back including the grammar point's meaning, usage and where it comes up.

It worked well with recognizing them and it was fast. Because all the sentences were bundled into groups if I got one thing wrong I would have to see the card again. So I got a lot of repetition -- which was what I wanted. But I think if I had more time to prepare I would have done things differently.

Would you be willing to elaborate? What would you have done differently, and how?

nohika Wrote:

bizarrojosh Wrote:thats about it. yeah, the above isn't a great explanation but it's just a made up example to give you an idea of how I do my cards. They are much more complicated than this. also the content in this example isn't really correct so don't copy the actual content and add it to your srs.

Did you underline the grammar you were focusing on, or just looked at the whole sentence?

You mean on the front of the card? No I just left the sentence in it's raw form. the back of the card was where I reviewed the grammar. The main reason for doing this is that if I can know what's going on then I probably don't need to study the grammar, but if I have trouble getting through the sentence then that probably means that I need to work on that particular grammar point.

I usually say to myself "hmm...you know...I've been seeing lots of ような [or insert the grammar you are having trouble with] recently and I have no idea what it means. I think I'll learn that now." then I go to my grammar books, find that part the book. Write everything down and then make like 30 cards only for that specific grammar point. It seems to get the job done"

bizarrojosh Wrote:

nohika Wrote:

bizarrojosh Wrote:thats about it. yeah, the above isn't a great explanation but it's just a made up example to give you an idea of how I do my cards. They are much more complicated than this. also the content in this example isn't really correct so don't copy the actual content and add it to your srs.

Did you underline the grammar you were focusing on, or just looked at the whole sentence?

You mean on the front of the card? No I just left the sentence in it's raw form. the back of the card was where I reviewed the grammar. The main reason for doing this is that if I can know what's going on then I probably don't need to study the grammar, but if I have trouble getting through the sentence then that probably means that I need to work on that particular grammar point.

I usually say to myself "hmm...you know...I've been seeing lots of ような [or insert the grammar you are having trouble with] recently and I have no idea what it means. I think I'll learn that now." then I go to my grammar books, find that part the book. Write everything down and then make like 30 cards only for that specific grammar point. It seems to get the job done"

Thank you. I think I'll try that.

nadiatims Wrote:I think the useful grammar actually worth learning, the core syntax explaining the particles and and how the different word relate to each other within a clause could probably be summarized in a couple of pages. After that it's all random exceptions etc. If you've ever had the misfortune of wasting a bunch of time on JLPT1/2 study materials you'll realize half of the so called grammar is actually just various verbs in 'て form' and various obscure particles, all of which is easily understood by just looking up the meaning of the words in question.

Do you know where I can find a JLPT list for grammar/vocab?

you'll be able to find lists via a google search. But my point was it's a waste of time trying to remember these things as 'grammar points' as such, especially using the typical blank filling exercises and so on in workbooks, unless you want to learn to talk via stock phrases. Just focus on learning vocab and reading/listening/conversing a whole lot and your grammar understanding (and general level in all other areas) will improve quite naturally. You'll end up with more vocabulary and a better intuition for the underlying syntax (real grammar) of Japanese sentences than most (perhaps any) textbook is able to teach.

nadiatims Wrote:you'll be able to find lists via a google search. But my point was it's a waste of time trying to remember these things as 'grammar points' as such, especially using the typical blank filling exercises and so on in workbooks, unless you want to learn to talk via stock phrases. Just focus on learning vocab and reading/listening/conversing a whole lot and your grammar understanding (and general level in all other areas) will improve quite naturally. You'll end up with more vocabulary and a better intuition for the underlying syntax (real grammar) of Japanese sentences than most (perhaps any) textbook is able to teach.

I do mostly sentences - or I plan to, anyways. If I can understand them, I pass them. I don't do exercises/workbooks, to be honest - I'm not too worried about production right now. I figure if I read enough, it will help/make things slightly easier. I was thinking of looking at a list to see what's truly qualified as "basics".

There is a certain amount of "grammar points" you need to work your way through before you can begin to read real Japanese. It's very useful to at least work your way through JLPT N2 books.

Front:
禁煙するつもりだ。
そこへ行く＿＿＿＿。
新車を買うつもりだ

Back:
"Intend/going/plan to"
[Dict form] つもりだ
[Verb ない] つもりだ

Basically, in term of formation notes K.I.S.S and short is best. I barely ever read them because I choose 7 grammar points and write on Lang-8 for 1 week. Cards just remind me of everything I've learned so far. The learning happens as I study the grammar initially and when I use it again and again. I also make an effort to use the dialogue in speech (to myself or another person) during my day at least once, hopefully 10 times, in a natural way (i.e., don't just make sentences, do dialogues with yourself or talk to someone else.)

The question is: "What's the grammar point?" and "What does it mean?". If I can answer both, pass. If only 1, fail.

bizarrojosh Wrote:I usually say to myself "hmm...you know...I've been seeing lots of ような [or insert the grammar you are having trouble with] recently and I have no idea what it means. I think I'll learn that now." then I go to my grammar books, find that part the book. Write everything down and then make like 30 cards only for that specific grammar point. It seems to get the job done"

I think this is what is missing in my study method. I often ignore things that I should look up. For instance, 「やめなよ、二人ともー　ゴハン冷めちゃうよ。」(I added some punctuation to that - Bleach vol.1 page 13 "Yuze" is speaking to Ichgo and his father.)

I'll go look that up now, lol.

Seriously, though, this is the method I am going to do for all of N3 tonight (as I am annoyed about my own grammar knowledge now.)

I am going to prepare a list of items taken from the remainder of N3. I will add the usual meaning, formation and general information on the grammar point. I then plan to find 3 audio sentences for each point and make a card like the one I posted above. This will be my meaning card. I will also create a production card with a twist. See below.

Clozed Delete:
飛＿前に見よ
暗くな___帰ります*
喧嘩す＿前に話し合おう
(前に formation: "become")

Compared field:
暗くなる前に帰ります

Information:
Formation notes here.

I plan to use http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt3/grammar/ for the points.

2 points per card plus all of my diary items for probably 2 months listed. (7 per day.)

Why just two? Well, as it's a cram deck (one I download each day and run through for maybe a month in this case - talk about over doing it.), doing more than 60 cards with 30 production would be stressful as I have about 1400 in a daily cram deck I am doing for my complete comprehension project (understand everything with relistening and reading - I'm getting a head start) and I don't think I need more than 2. I might back it up with making verbal sentences with the points in a self discussion format.

Oh, I partially clozed the word just before because I want to practice how it fits (which is pretty much all you need for production with grammar points, in my opinion, because if you know the word, it's meaning and how it fits you can use it!!!)