Hey folks,

as I'm getting closer and closer to my A levels this and next term, I wanted to ask ahead if japanese studies are a good choice. So far i can say, I'm 17, mastered RtK (which makes me kind of proud, seeing other boys and girls in my age..) with 2042 Kanjis, got basic japanese grammar knowledge. I'm very deep into Japanese already, as i was fascinated by Anime in my youth which i kind of started to dislike at the moment and switched to Korean/Japanese Doramas. I was taught a year or so Japanese Calligraphy, also known as Shuji or Shodou, like primary school pupils are, by my girlfriend. I'm not an artist, but that persuaded me again, influenced my daily life after school and homework (so called "hobby"). I should also mention I grew up learning 2 languages at the same time, namely german and russian which i understand fluently and can use actively well. Learning English in school opened my eyes (same with latin by the way) and i discovered some devotion for languages, starting with my first asian language - Japanese.
I just wanted to know whether somebody could tell me what awaits me after having finished Japanology (japanese studies, master's degress or magister - in order to teach japanese at universities), where can I work (I'm in Germany right now). I would not even have problems studying japanese in english as my english knowledge/skills are sufficient enough to understand everything more or less flawlessly, I suppose.
What are "Japanologists" doing in their job really? I read that exchange visits to japan are useful and very appreciated by the universities, but my family is not the richest one and Japan is not the cheapest country in the world.. What's about scholarships (anything concrete?)?

I just thought many users would be interested in this topic and for sure a few japanese studies students are participating actively in this Koohii-Board. Thanks for every comment, suggestion, tip or anything else in advance, I really appreciate it!

I don't have any tips, but I am impressed by what you're already achieving at your young age, I think it's wonderful.

I believe you should do what your heart tells you and life will find a way for you, it will happen naturally, as it always does to people that have devotion and love for what they're doing.

Mach einfach was Dein Herz Dir sagt. Ich würde das Studium anfangen und selbst rausfinden ob es das ist was Du Dir erhofft hast, und wenn nicht, dann wird sich etwas ergeben von dem Du im Moment eh nichts wissen kannst...

Ich sage Dir das als 51 jähriger, der immer seinem Herz gefolgt ist, mit allen Auf und Ab - ich habe es nie bereut. Und weisst Du was? Mein Leben ist wahnsinnig spannend, immer noch.

Alles Gute!

You should get a Phd if you want a university career.

And 'teaching' Japanese is only very small part of that type of career.

Tori-kun Wrote:I read that exchange visits to japan are useful and very appreciated by the universities, but my family is not the richest one and Japan is not the cheapest country in the world.. What's about scholarships (anything concrete?)?

Kommt ganz auf die Universität an, frag bei in Frage kommenden Universitäten einfach mal nach. Bei uns (Bonn) hatte man die Gelegenheit, über einen Direktaustausch der Uni nach Japan zu kommen oder über einen Direktaustausch des japanologischen Seminars. Ansonsten besteht immer die Chance, ein DAAD Stipendium zu bekommen, aber soweit ich weiß sind die Anmeldefristen sehr früh und es ist nicht gerade leicht, einen Platz zu ergattern (hohe Nachfrage).
Und zur Not gibt es immer Auslandbafög, das zahlt dir sogar (anteilig) den Flug.

Thank you for all your responses, but i suppose keeping the conversation in english could attract even more people, understanding english, right?

@truando: I wish you a lot of luck completing the book, especially the last units were quite hard (was for me at least..). I'm impressed so many people are learning this language, regardless how old and from where all over the world. Language connects people, language is the most mighty thing we have on earth. Without language we could not perform even mathematical operations; only the logic and philosophy are above language, nothing else (and i suck at maths, so i chosed the linguist part ). I'm young and i see so many teens wasting their time and their lives by doing this and that. I'm concrete and god knows whether i will regret that "habit" in future or not -- but now i do not care, as you said. I bewonder you, truando!

@Evil_Dragon: I'd heard the Universities in the west of germany are quite.. good, including Bonn and Bochum, being the only university offering Japanese linguistics in Germany. What does it mean to "study Japanese"? Will you become fluent in the language, if you really want it and do a lot on your own besides given homework etc.? Concerning learning i'm quite straight forwarded and i could imagine my progress being bigger when studying only japanese as for my job's purpose as simultanously to school like now.. concentrating only on japanese would be a dream. Wie stehen die Berufschancen als master (bachelor macht keinen sinn in meinen augen)? Ein Direktaustausch wäre nicht schlecht, aber wer zahlt das/was kostet das?

Thanks for further replies, greets from northern germany~

At most universities the grad students or junior/part-time teachers get stuck teaching Japanese language classes (or a prof gets unwillingly roped into it), because it's not a very attractive job. If you want to pursue Japanese academics as a decent career you need to go after literature (so hope you like it). Study classical jp and start reading Genji, Makura Soshi, Oku no Hosomichi, etc. By the time you finish undergrad you should know exactly what you want to specialize in (there is no such thing as a general "Japanologist", it is much too big of a field).

Personally I hate writing academic articles so I didn't want to pursue an academic career with my JP lit major (research and publishing is a bigger part of being a prof than teaching), but I probably would have pursued JP religious literature and ended up teaching pre-modern literature as a whole since JP religion is way too niche to do exclusively year-round.

Also, you will not get fluent by majoring in Japanese, it requires continued personal effort similar to what got you through RTK. Passing classes with decent grades but no personal commitment will get you to maybe JLPT2 after 4 years.

@Jarvik: I know what you are talking about. Taking classes is just not everything, and you must show a lot of personal efford to achieve fluency.
Personally i wanted to become something like a translator (for books, you said literature.. I liked reading the already translated versions of "contemporary japanese literature for beginners" kind of stuff a lot), acting as an interpreter would be something i'd like to do after absolving university. But how are the job chances after the studies, how much could you possibly earn -- in short: are japanologists needed at all? (well, what a question)..

Hence I never wrote something academic, i have no idea whether it really suits me or not, you see

Becoming an interpreter is not really a career you start soon after graduating, it's something you end up doing through other work usually. Also, very few professional full-time interpreters didn't speak both languages growing up.

Similarly, translating isn't a career most people start in right away, since general translation pays nothing. Most people have a career and with experience they get from that start translating towards the end of their career. If you want to be a well-paid translator right away it's best to major in something else like law, finance, engineering, etc and do Japanese on your own. Translating literature is generally something that professors do in their free time and is not a career itself.

I'm a full-time translator for Toyota/Lexus (actually I'm in marketing but it's mostly just translation work), but I studied automotive mechanics for a few years in high-school and worked part-time for awhile in an auto-shop while in university so I know enough for everything other than repair manuals. I also have a two year translation certification I did at the same time as my Japanese major.

You should only really major in Japanese if you want to be an academic, or if you have existing knowledge and skills that would be an asset to a Japanese company when combined with bilingualism and foreign cultural knowledge. There is also the typical humanities route of getting a job that had nothing to do with your major.

So, as far as i understood you, you say it's difficult to be well-paid, only having graduated in Japanese major, master. It'd be more helpful studying something like economy combinated with japanese ("Economical Japanese" called here) or engineering and japanese, whereas you translate manuals etc. for companies needing your help.

In fact i have 2 possibilities now, as far as i could point out your post, Jarvik: graduating in Japanese and become some academic (-> Professor maybe? Staying at an university, teaching, translating books in freetime and becoming a interpreter after a while) or studying something other and combining it with the Japanese language (f.e. for translational purposes, like you do currently for a company). I guess i tend to take the second as well, because i think personally i will never ever have so much patience with pupils and students as a professor/whatsoever

Thanks for your advice!

If you want to be a well-paid translator soon after graduation and don't already have useful skills, major in something else and maybe minor in Japanese. Also try to get a translation certification. It doesn't have to be Japanese translation, since translation itself is a skill unrelated to language ability.

There's actually a Japanese TV show called Japanology (it's on d-addicts).
When I read the topic title, I thought maybe the tv show ended.

It's a culture show that teaches about various aspects of
japan. For example, subways, origami, curry, japanese hotels, etc.

Why not just double major? It's not as difficult as it sounds. I know people who've graduate with bachelor's in 3yrs with double majors, and people who've triple majored and graduated in 4yrs. Maybe it's worth considering.

chamcham Wrote:When I read the topic title, I thought maybe the tv show ended.

Sorry for that irritation.. Did not know about the existance of such a show yet lol

vileru Wrote:Why not just double major? It's not as difficult as it sounds. I know people who've graduate with bachelor's in 3yrs with double majors, and people who've triple majored and graduated in 4yrs. Maybe it's worth considering.

Yeah why not.. I was thinking about this, too: Japanese and Economy would be a nice combination, maybe even Chinese?

Tori-kun, about scholarships and exchanges, you'll find some information if you search the forums. I recall discussions about:
- MEXT and JASSO scholarships (or Google them)
- programs for foreigners vs. regular degrees vs. language schools
- IceCream posted a link to private scholarships (Monbukagakusho thread)
-undergraduate degree programs in Japan for foreigners in English. (see Grinker's post on Waseda, and discussions about Sophia and Temple U. (probably expensive?)

An exchange through your home university can be less expensive then enrolling as an independent (depending on your home tuition). I studied with German exchange students (who were excellent) from Bonn and Heidelberg (iirc). You should research what's available now.

If there's no exchange program, you might still be able to request that some credits (earned as an independent student) be applied to your home degree. You might have to challenge the exam or sit for an interview with the professor of a similar course.

But don't worry if an undergraduate exchange is not an option for you. It's not necessary. Many students end up hanging out with other exchange students and missing out on immersion opportunities (or their language skills aren't good enough yet to fully benefit from what exposure they get.) On the hand, a good homestay can be a wonderful experience.

If you end up choosing the academic path, I think it's better to improve your language first, then enrol in graduate school in Japan or get a research scholarship to spend time in Japan as part of a graduate/Phd program at a university outside Japan.

btw - Keep in mind when you're researching university programs that there are different conceptions of "Japanese studies". Some are language focused (language, language education, literature, linguistics, etc). Others are based on region (Japanese language plus courses about Japan). I wasn't sure which you had in mind. Also, sometimes language courses are part of other faculties such as business or science (to tailor them to their students' needs). These choices apparently can affect the types of scholarships available.

Thanks for your long reply first of all thora, i will have a deeper look into the topics on the forums as you briefly told me! I will read a long a few websites, but.. Is it possible with a german a level certificate? I plan to apply in the Cambridge English Certificate Level A (almost native speaker), like my friend last year (and hell, he surprisingly succeeded with 85%!) to proof my english skills.

I have to say i'm quite dependant on a scholarship from an organisation/university as my parents would neither be capable of paying such a huge amount of money for "crap like that" (as they call it now.. I'm glad i was able to ignore everything they told me and finished up, bravely on my absolute own, the Heisig Vol.1 book) -- nor they really have it just like that, one should also mention, nor they want me to become some language guy. I've heard from some students in Bochum (north-west germany) their universities are offering exchange visits to their cooperative partner universities in japan and pay a huge sum for good/better students, showing efford and progress in their studies.

I've also heard of these two ways of studying Japanese so far:
1. Linguistics: Studying the language as indepthly as possible, but also having naturally aspects like religion, culture, literature and so on. Politics/economy can be chosen as well and can be majored in, too.
=> Possible to apply in a interpreter test (Interpreter Universities have only few slots and require very good a levels here -- with an avergage of 1.4 or so!)
2. Japanology: Didn't quite get the difference between pure "linguists" in japanese (i suppose more research/academic, so called, language scientific work) and japanologists having absolved a japanese study (bachelor/master/magister).
=> Question: Also possible to apply for an interpreter certificate (getting it after succeeded exams)?

Generally i can say i'm more interested in language than in Language Education, whereas i could possiblyy think of teaching this language to other pupils and doing some research on that (as a project or so) as well. Religion and Culture are naturally coupled to language, so i cannot come across it (and it seems to be fun as far as i heard if one is interested in philosophical and religious - theoretical and practical - topics like i am).

What would you recommend me? I'm quite free and looking for alternatives/ways..

There are many ways to study things related to Japan as an academic discipline, but bear in mind that many are tied to traditional, more recognised subjects. People who teach Japanese history will typically have done a history degree and be part of the history department, people who teach Japanese economy will typically have done an economics degree and be part of the economics department, etc.

Personally I wouldn't recommend doing Japanese Studies as a BA unless you plan to be a Japanese literature professor. Everything else can be covered with greater academic rigour at BA level in the traditional disciplines: history, politics, philosophy, economics, etc, because any good university will let you choose your own area of research in at least your final year, and doing a traditional subject will provide a better academic grounding. Japanese Studies is more of a graduate thing unless you're in a country where you can choose majors and minors.

Having said that, social sciences graduate schools won't turn anyone down without a very good reason, so don't worry too much about doing exactly the 'right' degree. It would be a good idea to have a specialisation in mind well in advance, but the important thing at BA level is build up a general knowledge base. Focus on your main area of interest, of course, but a basic understanding of things like culture, history, politics, philosophy and religion is essential. It doesn't matter how many Shinto rituals you've researched if you don't know the date of the Meiji Restoration, for instance.

If your parents aren't willing to pay for what they see as a 'crap' subject, you could easily do something more practical like law and then specialise in Japanese law. If the academic route isn't for you, then the worst that will happen is that you have a steady well-paying job to fall back on.

Thanks a lot for the indepth reply, harhol! Here in Germany we also started having the Bachelor/Master system since a few year(s?) as far as i know and informed me.. It's really difficult to get a job here, i heard, only having bachelors in different/one subject you studied and it's recommended to major in at least one (= getting the masters or "magister" - so called teachers etc. - degree). In my opinion it's really difficult to get a job only involving japanese language as it's virtually not provided and needed here, except in the "Little Tokyo" town Düsseldorf (you know that maybe) as the town with the most japanese inhabitants in Germany (it's western). As a child of semi-russian parents (complicated story, but anyway) i was educated in a very conservative and communist-coined way and manner and would like compare to the traditional ("conservative") and modern way of education of childs and teenagers in japan, involving the psychological and language aspect.
An interesting question i'd like to cover f.e. is, how do japanese children learn a language (this could develope into a project for every asian country, such as China and South korea), how do children learn these cryptic kanjis f.e., why is it indeed so "easy" for them and so difficult to imagine for foreigners (clash). Stuff like that interests me a lot, and i suppose it'd be some kind of Human/Social Science MEXT/JASSO are stipending as well, but just a part; i read the manual they publish on their websites last night and it did not say that the whole pricing will be covered/stipended finally and that one has to pay almost the half by oneself (having a part time job in japan could be organised, though that won't be much good anyway paying an amount of almost 50,000 Yen per month -- Japan _is_ expensive, as they mention in their guide and in the statistics!).

My parents are just not willing to pay 'cause they are nothing else than dumbasses. Studying Russian as a language would make them happy on the other hand.. It's just their bloody education that made them have these immense prejudices against "races" as they would call it, i.e. Asian people, their society and everything Asian concerned (not only Asian, but just to sticky to the example of Japan). I just like intercultural stuff and i have no problems being international, speaking english for example. It became already a big part of my life.

Thanks for any further tips, yo!

Tori-kun Wrote:how do children learn these cryptic kanjis f.e., why is it indeed so "easy" for them and so difficult to imagine for foreigners (clash).

Is that a serious question? It takes them TWELVE YEARS!!! And they still forget how to write heaps of them. I wouldn't call that "easy" learning.

You see, it put the word easy into these ones: "..."

Tori-kun Wrote:Thanks a lot for the indepth reply, harhol! Here in Germany we also started having the Bachelor/Master system since a few year(s?) as far as i know and informed me.. It's really difficult to get a job here, i heard, only having bachelors in different/one subject you studied and it's recommended to major in at least one (= getting the masters or "magister" - so called teachers etc. - degree). In my opinion it's really difficult to get a job only involving japanese language as it's virtually not provided and needed here, except in the "Little Tokyo" town Düsseldorf (you know that maybe) as the town with the most japanese inhabitants in Germany (it's western). As a child of semi-russian parents (complicated story, but anyway) i was educated in a very conservative and communist-coined way and manner and would like compare to the traditional ("conservative") and modern way of education of childs and teenagers in japan, involving the psychological and language aspect.
An interesting question i'd like to cover f.e. is, how do japanese children learn a language (this could develope into a project for every asian country, such as China and South korea), how do children learn these cryptic kanjis f.e., why is it indeed so "easy" for them and so difficult to imagine for foreigners (clash). Stuff like that interests me a lot, and i suppose it'd be some kind of Human/Social Science MEXT/JASSO are stipending as well, but just a part; i read the manual they publish on their websites last night and it did not say that the whole pricing will be covered/stipended finally and that one has to pay almost the half by oneself (having a part time job in japan could be organised, though that won't be much good anyway paying an amount of almost 50,000 Yen per month -- Japan _is_ expensive, as they mention in their guide and in the statistics!).

My parents are just not willing to pay 'cause they are nothing else than dumbasses. Studying Russian as a language would make them happy on the other hand.. It's just their bloody education that made them have these immense prejudices against "races" as they would call it, i.e. Asian people, their society and everything Asian concerned (not only Asian, but just to sticky to the example of Japan). I just like intercultural stuff and i have no problems being international, speaking english for example. It became already a big part of my life.

Thanks for any further tips, yo!

Ah, a fellow Wolgadeutscher, I presume? Though I am not sure if I count as one, since I have only one Volga German grandmother, and she married a 고려사람, saving her children from a prejudice against "races". Instead I get relatives from the semi-Korean side of the family asking "why are you studying Japanese and not Korean?", to which I reply "At least I can read Hangul and sing the national anthems of both Koreas. Can you? "

As for your question, you mentioned that you have an affinity for languages and that you are interested in how the Japanese children learn their language. Did you consider picking linguistics as your major, with Japanese linguistics as an area of your particular interest? I have no idea how linguistics degrees work in Germany, but in the American university I used to study at linguistics majors were required to take two language courses and various electives about the linguistic histories of various countries and regions, in addition to the core general linguistics courses. Studying something like this would be good for you if your interest in the workings of language in general is just as great as your interest in Japanese in particular, and if you intend to seriously pursue the academic study of language acquisition and teaching. Otherwise, I can only agree with the people who advised you to study something in addition to Japanese.

Hey, Tori-kun, as a person of "semi-Russian" (and errrm, one-eighth Korean) descent, I take exception to your picturing Russians as racist dumbasses. Show some respect to your parents, really. They are not obliged to pay for your studies.

Now, here is what you can do in Germany if you decide against majoring in Japanology.

You could take Japanology as your minor or take Japanese courses that your uni provides for its students.
Here in Tübingen, such courses are free and taught by native speakers. Anyone can take them, and you can even take a Schein and make the credit points count towards your bachelor degree.
Depending on the Bundesland of your university, tuition fees are either 600 Euros/semester, or 100 Euros/semester (that's what I pay in Tübingen, 'cause I have 2 siblings), or nothing at all.

Then, take up an internship.

I know a girl who studied Computational Linguistics here in Tübingen and took Japanese courses for a couple of years. She did a one-year-long internship with a Japanese company (in Japan) after she completed her 3-year-long bachelor studies. They were happy to have her. They paid her enough to cover all the expenses, including plane tickets and all.
Since you already know Japanese, you don't even have to wait 3 years to go to Japan. I don't know about other universities and other majors, but where I study, bachelor students are *required* to do an internship. Most of them do it in their fourth or fifth semester, but it is negotiable.

If the internship goes well, you can arrange to stay in Japan and find a job there. Though maybe it would make sense to return to Germany and get a Master's degree first.

Hope this helps!

Quote:Show some respect to your parents, really. They are not obliged to pay for your studies.

Well, i must honestly say this post enraged me kind of, when i read it. I'm 17 right now, ok, i have no plan how i will educate my child(ren) if i'm ever gonna to have some, but what i will not do is discouraging them to learn something on their own in their freetime, as much as they want, as cheap as possible (just bought the heisig books and printed out the Tae Kim Grammar)! Neither i will spread hatred against race X or Y, because they "seem to look like" (every, yeah, without an exception, all-inclusive), no. So please don't tell me i should show more respect, anyway I'm not some kind of person justifying myself and I apologise for this offtopic.. You certainly have better parents than i do have, squeaky_lill_mk. ANYWAY

Quote:They are not obliged to pay for your studies.

As far as i know parents have to pay de jure for the children studying (whatever, that does not depend. they only have to pay basic studies in germany, so i'm questionening the exchange visit) unless they have too less money (BaFöG laws.. did not study them indepthly, but there are some borders drawn by the gouvernment when students get financial support when their parents have a too low income -- which will hopefully be the case with me). Coming back to a post earlier.. I guess i will apply in Bachelor first, attending afterwards in Master of Arts (Japanese Linguistics.. Hm, unfortunately there is only one university in Germany, for your information, maybe this is being read sooner or later again or currently by interested folks, namely the one in Bochum, western Germany) combined with some Social/Economical aspect.

@vonPeterhof: Yeah something like the Wolgadeutscher, just a bit more complex (unfortunately, but anyway) XD What a pity the only phrase/sentence i can say in korean is "anyo haseo" (or so.. which means "hello"). I must say i preffered Japanese as i did not get quite the hang of hangul (please make me understand them sometimes~) in the library where i was standing in front of the language books corner and picked the japanese heisig book right away. I would also like doing some studies on the korean languages after i finished with Japanese (chinese? I must think about that point as well, as china grows and becomes more and more important due globalisation, esp. in economy). As written above I probably will attend the University offering japanese linguistics in order to gain fluency by working even harder and a good degree enabling a career in future as.. whatever. I'm not too sure, but i suppose one starts somewhere at a low level, applies in certificate tests (interpreter f.e. translating conferences, diplomatic postal stuff maybe a higher, upper level, translating books, theatre plays etc.) and works your way up to some kind of retired researcher/professor. See, I'd really like to sit in a japanese primary school, as a "gaijin", among all these kids understanding only japanese and maybe only little English (I doubt that honestly), observing them, how they learn, behave, etc. Mixing Psychology and Linguistics is so attractive and interesting to me..

You should know that if you're planning on studying in Germany, you can always apply for BaFög which is basically a student loan by the german government, which you eventually have to pay back, but it's helped many of my friends.

Also a lot of different organizations give out scholarships, my dad got some money by the Cusanuswerk, which is part of the catholic church, when he was younger, but that was about 35 years ago so I don't know if it's still around, so look into any groups or so, just beware of sects and religious groups. Usually the Stiftungen have something.

There are also a lot of student jobs out there, so if you're really motivated that's always an option, only I don't know if that would be enough to support your studies if you're not living at home and your parents don't support your studies financially (and you're not getting BaFög).

Listen, if you know this is what you want to do, don't let anything stop you. I blew a year away doing Law (and a lot of my parents' money), deluding myself it was the "right thing" for me. The result? I ended up going to class for a total of four months , isolated myself, and felt completely, literally shitty in a city that was completely foreign to me.
Don't forget that studying is supposed to be fun so you should do something you love and worry about the rest when the time comes.
We live in the here and now and when you're up at two in the morning crunching those last paragraphs for your exams and feeling really pressured, you won't be fantasizing about "that stable job with the great pay", but rather whether you like what you're doing or not, if it makes you happy and that's what's going to motivate you.

Don't worry about getting a job just yet. you still have plenty of time to think about that, and you're 18 now, right? are you doing an Abitur? if so, you should graduate at about 19, so you still have time to think about things.

Enjoy your youth

Well, thanks for the reply!! The point is my family was always not quite.. wealthy. First they had to flee and stay in Russia as refugees for something like 200 years (long family history, i know) and now they came back to Germany and are called "bloody Russians", just because they are more fluent in Russian than in German and have miserable perspectives on the job market in Germany nowadays. They struggle for life everyday, paying the debt for the house and educating two children. The point is, I want - no I have to, as the oldest in the family it's my obligation - to study something that will be useful later on in my life. A job I can earn really good money with, unlike my parents who have to work hard, although their education (from soviet times) is not the worst, I must say (but not any longer acknowledged, haha).
The question is what would a japanologist do concretely and how much would he get? I rather think about studying it as a bachelor and on private purpose for myself, out of interest and reaching fluency like that (see, khatz did the same, without studying and I believe this method is quite well possible if one's consequent and disciplinated).

In soviet russia, you don't have obligation, but obligation have you!