So I came across a book called "Pink Box".

It details the life of an American journalist getting
an inside look into the japan sex industry.

You can see photos at the main website (check out
the "Club Mammoth" photo....lol).

Full interview:
http://www.pinkboxjapan.com/interviews.html

Some funny tidbits:

*It’s the second largest industry in Japan (automobiles are the first).

*There were train clubs with all-you-can-grope commuting women. And fake hospitals, where the customer can lie in bed and get “treated” by a pantiless nurse. There were “Sexual Harassment” offices where men can tear the pantyhose off their “secretaries.”

*every club has a website. And you can even print out coupons (30% off your first panty ripping session!).

*The salaries vary, but in general about $140,000 per year, about what a first-year lawyer in the US earns. They get a base salary, plus cuts of the extra options, usually 50 percent, and a bit of extra money for being chosen. If you’re working at a health or image club, and you’re chosen from the photo catalog, you might get a $25 bonus for a forty minute session. And that encourages repeat customers, regulars who get hooked on one girl.

*Many clubs offered so-called ‘alibi services’. A lot of the women still lived at home, which is common in Japan for individuals even into their 30s and 40s. They would tell their parents that they were makeup artists or waitresses. If the parents called that line, the club would answer, “Hello, Denny’s”—or wherever the women were pretending to work.

Sounds like a good time, and an interesting book. Might buy it, but where to hide it so my dad doesn't find it...

Why bother hiding it?
Your dad will probably read it anyway...... :-)

Ewww, haha. No, but seriously, I really want to read this book. This aspect of Japan has always interested me. Weird, huh. I have no shame.

Good memories of my first night in Japan getting lost in Kabuki-cho with my cousin.

Note for anyone who ever stays in the hotel area west of Shinjuku station. The hotels are WEST of the station. Not east....

"*The salaries vary, but in general about $140,000 per year, about what a first-year lawyer in the US earns."

Kind of makes me question the integrity of any other data presented in the book, being as a first year lawyer in the US doesn't make anywhere near 140k. In fact most lawyers never make 140k in their entire careers.

The average hostess makes about 200,000 to 300,000 yen a month. They don't put out though. Generally. And of course a big chunk of that is going back to the club owner they work for.

Also I really don't think these girls are getting much a cut of the 指名money. It's their most basic job duty. If they don't bring it in they get fired instantly.

Why buy the book when you can go experience it first hand?

dizmox Wrote:Why buy the book when you can go experience it first hand?

You can't, haha. The Japanese sex industry is largely closed to foreigners.

They make nowhere near that kind of money. I know a few hostesses and they are always complaining about wanting more money to go on a trip etc. My guess is that they make around 22man/mo on average unless it's a very upscale place and they are frequently asked for.

As for deriheru, I don't know anyone who admits to it, but I doubt many stay longer than a few times and at the rates I see on the fliers I get in the mail, they make very little money unless they're doing 5 guys daily.

Quote:A lot of the women try it for a month or two, then quit, get married, and never tell their husbands.

I find that a little disturbing.

Tzadeck Wrote:

dizmox Wrote:Why buy the book when you can go experience it first hand?

You can't, haha. The Japanese sex industry is largely closed to foreigners.

I doubt there is anything a salaryman pays for that can compare to what a foreigner will experience for the price of just talking to a pretty college girl on the train any day of the week.

This book would appear to be a joke. She complains in the interview about a lack of access. I guess she got so little access that she couldn't even make a reasonable estimate as to how much these people are making. What was she doing for all that time? Sounds like she just needed an excuse for an extended holiday.

Javizy Wrote:

Quote:A lot of the women try it for a month or two, then quit, get married, and never tell their husbands.

I find that a little disturbing.

In a stuck up society, that could be a quick way to gain a lot of sex xp, you know, to make sure you haven't missed anything before the marriage step.

Javizy Wrote:

Quote:A lot of the women try it for a month or two, then quit, get married, and never tell their husbands.

I find that a little disturbing.

A lot of guys find their wives there.

kapalama Wrote:A lot of guys find their wives there.

Lol...that can have a double meaning:

a)they fall in love with one of the women that work there and marry them

b)they just happen to be there and suddenly......"honey! what are you doing here?!"
with a confused look on their face

I thought this thread might give the wrong impression of regular hostesses in Japan. It appears that the photo book focuses on visually interesting fetish clubs offering sexual services. Those women aren't regular hostesses.

Hostesses aren't (necessarily) prostitutes or western-style strippers (with or without private dances). Some clubs might encourage the women to entice clients to return, to accept gifts from them and to meet them outside of the club, but it's considered voluntary and not official club business. I realize it doesn't all fit into neat categories, but folks outside Japan might not realize that many hostess clubs amount to paying a waitress to sit at the table and pretend to flirt. There are different styles of clubs - pretentiously upscale, neighbourhood friendly, bordello-esque, theme park, down and out - but sex isn't on the menu.

No idea how much prostitutes make in Japan, but it doesn't seem unlikely that a fetish prostitute could earn $140K. (If young women signed with modelling agencies in NYC can go on dates for $2K for a couple of hours and high class escorts will visit your hotel for $4K...) As with regular hostesses, I'm sure there's a range. Corporate expense accounts no doubt raise the hostess average (though accounting depts might balk at sex club receipts).

Here's what does surprise me for some reason: female sex workers paying male hosts for sex. I wonder what that's about - power? no complications? no judgment? kindred spirit? anonymity?

Pls excuse the double (and long) post - wanted to respond to the tough critics here. :-)

activeaero Wrote:Kind of makes me question the integrity of any other data presented in the book, being as a first year lawyer in the US doesn't make anywhere near 140k. In fact most lawyers never make 140k in their entire careers.

The photographer is also a corporate lawyer and is speaking from personal experience. Perhaps she could have specified 1st-year lawyer *at a large private firm*, but do we expect such precision in an interview? Besides, given the amount, people are likely to assume she must be talking about well paid lawyers.

She's emphasizing that fetish prostitutes make as much as highly paid new lawyers (who are widely considered overpaid.) To her, perhaps this is another indication (along with advanced education, emotional stability, choice, marriage, etc) that these women are not exploited victims (a point she seems to want to convey). [edit In any event, nothing to make you question the data in her photo book, imo.]

btw, the highest big firm starting salary is now $160 + $30 bonus, most(?) pay $125-$140 + bonus. So your claim that no starting lawyers make anywhere near $140 is incorrect. Should we now doubt your other confident assertions? ;-)

Harhol Wrote:This book would appear to be a joke. She complains in the interview about a lack of access. I guess she got so little access that she couldn't even make a reasonable estimate as to how much these people are making. What was she doing for all that time? Sounds like she just needed an excuse for an extended holiday.

She managed to shoot photos in 90 clubs in 4 cities despite having those 3 strikes against her: female, foreigner, and photographer! She accomplished this during a year of researching and networking in the industry, learning what's appropriate, writing a regular column in a Soapland magazine, negotiating terms herself in Japanese, gaining the trust of the women and owners, hanging out with dodgy customers, working with advertisers, etc etc.

Whatever you might think of the content, I'd say she successfully accomplished a difficult task. I can think of better ways to spend an extended holiday. :-)

TheVinster Wrote:Ewww, haha. No, but seriously, I really want to read this book. This aspect of Japan has always interested me. Weird, huh. I have no shame.

If you had no shame, you probably wouldn't care if your Dad found it ...

Tzadeck Wrote:

dizmox Wrote:Why buy the book when you can go experience it first hand?

You can't, haha. The Japanese sex industry is largely closed to foreigners.

Tell that to the thousands and thousands of prostitutes from China Taiwan and the Philippines.

When they say "closed to foreigners", they mean closed to foreign customers.

quote from the interview:

"But there are neighborhoods in Japan where Thai, Filipina, Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese sex workers are brought over by the Japanese mafia to work as prostitutes. A lot of them are working off debt, and they’re forced to overstay their visas."

I occasionally see ads/fliers that say "gaijin ok", but most say Japanese only (or nothing, which means no gaijin likely).

Thora Wrote:Hostesses aren't (necessarily) prostitutes or western-style strippers (with or without private dances). Some clubs might encourage the women to entice clients to return, to accept gifts from them and to meet them outside of the club, but it's considered voluntary and not official club business. I realize it doesn't all fit into neat categories, but folks outside Japan might not realize that many hostess clubs amount to paying a waitress to sit at the table and pretend to flirt. There are different styles of clubs - pretentiously upscale, neighbourhood friendly, bordello-esque, theme park, down and out - but sex isn't on the menu.

Sorry but this isn't a very accurate description of hostessing in Japan. I believe your statement oversimplifies the duties of a hostess, as well as the significant risks and emotional costs that women endure in the industry.

For a minority of girls hostessing is a straight 8-12 pm job. You get to chat with a variety of men, some pretty interesting, some not. And may earn around 200,000 - 300,000 yen a month.

The problem comes when the club owner starts complaining about your inability to attract wealthy clients willing to pay extra for your company in the form of 同伴 (where the customer pays the club for the privilege of taking you on a date) or 指名 (where the customer pays more to the club to have the ability to name which girl sits next to him). Failure to bring in 同伴 and 指名 result in pay deductions and eventually dismissal. 同伴 and 指名 are official business for every club and the clubs who make them voluntary are the minority.

So as you can imagine the pressure on the women to provide extra services to attract such clients is strong. Not to mention the real threat of violence that hostesses must face every night.



BTW my girlfriend worked in the industry so I'm not just pulling things out of my ass here.

What does it say about Japanese society when the most lucrative jobs available to women are those where they are required to endure sexual harassment and please men?

While getting enough 指名 is vital to the hostess making money and retaining their job, and going out with clients outside the club is expected, that still doesn't mean sex, it just means going to another bar or a performance of somesort. In fact the entire point is never having sex. The hostess continues leading the client on thinking that if he frequents the club more and 指名s her, gives more gifts, takes her out more, etc etc that eventually he'll get laid. Usually it never happens and in fact most clubs look down on it and the hostess will need to do it on the sly (either for money or because she likes the client) to prevent them from finding out. it's the same idea as VIP rooms and the fraudulent 出会い系 sites (which are the majority).

Hostess clubs are not brothels and in fact many hostesses aren't even physically ideal (many are way past their prime age-wise). They are expected to make a more emotional connection through stimulating conversation and flattery that will bring 指名 and repeat business. If a businessman wants a quick lay then deriheru or soaplands are much cheaper, faster, easier, and generally have younger more attractive women. There are also a fair number of street-walkers if you know where to look if you want to save even more money.

BTW I have studied the subject formally, I have numerous friends in the industry, and I currently live in the red light district of Nagoya (awesome huge new apartment for cheap, yay!), so these comments are also not from my anus.

And sorry to spoil your nihon-girai, but the industry is not very lucrative for the woman compared to career-type jobs available to them (if they have an education and are willing to work hard and be committed long-term just like male salarymen). The women who work in fuzoku are not people who tried and failed to work as business women or are dissatisfied with the opportunities available to women in general. They are usually dropouts or never went to university and so have no career prospects - gender has nothing to do with it.

Deriheru and soapland generally charge 6000-1man per hour of service, which the agency will take a large cut of. You need to do a lot of greasy old men every day to match what you'd make as a salarywoman. Clubs cost less but the drinks which you buy for the hostess and yourself are very expensive.

It IS easy money (if you have no self-respect), but it's not good money in most cases.