Translating requires good reading skills in the source language and good writing skills in the target language. If you're an english native, that means good japanese reading skills and good english writing skills. Translating well requires a level of writing skill and depth of understanding similar to the original author imho.

Edit: someone else has already made this point. Oh well.

Yeah, you should get to the point where typing in proper grammar is effortless.

I mean, sure, you don't need to know exactly when to use A or B in the rare C situation, but general things such as sentence flow should be easy to do.

ta12121 Wrote:...just to review the basics. I should really get onto that but that's definitely something I can put off for just a bit.

Reviewing the basics is just going to be a start. Just because you're native doesn't mean you can write like [insert famous writer]. When you're doing actual translation, you are acting as the original author, and so you need to be able to write just as well as the original author in your own language.

I haven't read any of your works outside the forum, but in my opinion, you need to get professional writing help as soon as you can. That is, if you have real ambitions to do actual translations.

Asriel Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:...just to review the basics. I should really get onto that but that's definitely something I can put off for just a bit.

Reviewing the basics is just going to be a start. Just because you're native doesn't mean you can write like [insert famous writer]. When you're doing actual translation, you are acting as the original author, and so you need to be able to write just as well as the original author in your own language.

I haven't read any of your works outside the forum, but in my opinion, you need to get professional writing help as soon as you can. That is, if you have real ambitions to do actual translations.

I understand what your saying. It's not just translating from one language to the other. It's also translating and conveying in English from what is being said in japanese. While maintaining what the author intended but in English.

So I should definitely focus on two points. Writing and grammar. Also trying getting my reading skills to a high level(native even) in japanese as well.

Translating is more than just about translating meaning. There's just so much to account for and so much is lost in translation.

Consider the following puzzle/riddle:

なぞなぞ　たてろ
同じ鳥でも飛ばないとりはなあんだ？

それはひとり　という鳥だ。

How do you get the pun on とり (一人のとり　and 鳥のとり) to make sense in English? If you don't get the wordplay, then it won't be funny in English. There are a lot of subtleties in Japanese that you can easily miss if you're not aware of them. Translating is finding the balance between what sounds good in English and remaining faithful to the text.

This is a great article, albeit old, about the realities of translating from Japanese to English: http://www.gally.net/translation/gettingstarted.htm

In the meantime, keep studying, keep reading and translate, translate, translate. If you can get involved with a group doing a project, it's a great way to get motivated and often there will be other more experienced translators that you can talk to. I wish you the best of luck and if you figure out a way to make it work--let me know. =)

Do bear in mind that he wants to translate anime & manga, not Tale of the Genji.

It's a good point though. Translation can be as demanding of your native language ability as it is of your target language ability.

Some translators try to circumvent this by overloading on (Americanized) idioms. An annoying trend imo.

harhol Wrote:Do bear in mind that he wants to translate anime & manga, not Tale of the Genji.

It's a good point though. Translation can be as demanding of your native language ability as it is of your target language ability.

Some translators try to circumvent this by overloading on (Americanized) idioms. An annoying trend imo.

initially I want to start off with anime/manga. Then branch of onto other types of translations.

Don't expect to make any money from translating anime or manga. Some people make money from translating video games though (although the money is still very low). In order to make a living as a translator you need:
1) Fluency in Japanese: can you read Japanese newspapers, novels, editorials etc. without needing much help from a dictionary?
2) Excellent English ability: can you write a news article that can be published in the New York Times? Can you compile a convincing essay? Can you give clear succinct instructions on how to use something? Can you write a ficticious story with colourful descriptions and sentences that have a literary flow?
3) A speciality area: like I said, there's little money in anime or manga - people do it for fun. You need an area like medicine, engineering, law or IT to make a living. If you think IT is your way to go then you'll need a degree, then a few years experience. You'll need to be able to write manuals, error reports and system design plans in English then be able to apply that to the same documents written in Japanese.

On top of that you'll need to prove to agencies and clients that you are a competant translator and will not make ANY mistakes. One mistake can be critical, especially if you misread a particle in a sentence for an engineering patent which ends up stuffing everything up. Oh, you'll need insurance for when you get sued too (don't think it doesn't happen).

bluemarigolds Wrote:This is a great article, albeit old, about the realities of translating from Japanese to English: http://www.gally.net/translation/gettingstarted.htm

That is an interesting article! However, the internet really has changed everything; course-sourcing translation sites like http://www.translatorscafe.com now mean that agencies are dead, and in-house translators are needed less and less.

Now as I said before, the thing about this types of sites is; most of the people on there are native speakers of both languages, who are doing this work for a bit of easy extra cash. If you have a native speaker vs someone who has self studied for 3 years, who do you think the client will pick?

By all means, do translation for fun and then try and make a living out of it; but have a back up option too!

I was going to do some English editing work on academic papers that were translated from Chinese/Korean/Japanese to English. But the guy was going to pay $7 per paper. One paper would be around 4-15 pages long, not only would I have to have a fair idea of what the paper was talking about, I didn't even try, but I'm stupid you see, so it would have taken at least 30mins to an hour to read and understand one whole paper, let alone fix grammatical mistakes and complete paragraphs & sentences that made no sense.

I'd guess a translator for those papers would get payed ~2-4 times as much as me. So $25 AUD (min) a paper which is reasonable if you can shoot down 1 paper an hour.

If you want I can give you the email of the dude that I was going to work for and ask him generic questions.

bucko Wrote:Don't expect to make any money from translating anime or manga. Some people make money from translating video games though (although the money is still very low). In order to make a living as a translator you need:
1) Fluency in Japanese: can you read Japanese newspapers, novels, editorials etc. without needing much help from a dictionary?
2) Excellent English ability: can you write a news article that can be published in the New York Times? Can you compile a convincing essay? Can you give clear succinct instructions on how to use something? Can you write a ficticious story with colourful descriptions and sentences that have a literary flow?
3) A speciality area: like I said, there's little money in anime or manga - people do it for fun. You need an area like medicine, engineering, law or IT to make a living. If you think IT is your way to go then you'll need a degree, then a few years experience. You'll need to be able to write manuals, error reports and system design plans in English then be able to apply that to the same documents written in Japanese.

On top of that you'll need to prove to agencies and clients that you are a competant translator and will not make ANY mistakes. One mistake can be critical, especially if you misread a particle in a sentence for an engineering patent which ends up stuffing everything up. Oh, you'll need insurance for when you get sued too (don't think it doesn't happen).

So I should definitely improve my writing in english plus have fluency(near-native level for reading as well for japanese). Specialty eh, I would say chemistry. But that might soon change.

aphasiac Wrote:

bluemarigolds Wrote:This is a great article, albeit old, about the realities of translating from Japanese to English: http://www.gally.net/translation/gettingstarted.htm

That is an interesting article! However, the internet really has changed everything; course-sourcing translation sites like http://www.translatorscafe.com now mean that agencies are dead, and in-house translators are needed less and less.

Now as I said before, the thing about this types of sites is; most of the people on there are native speakers of both languages, who are doing this work for a bit of easy extra cash. If you have a native speaker vs someone who has self studied for 3 years, who do you think the client will pick?

By all means, do translation for fun and then try and make a living out of it; but have a back up option too!

Very true. Translation isn't going to be my main career but it's something I can build up towards.

Just make sure translation is something you enjoy, and that you find pleasure from it in itself. As others have stated, it's a very difficult career to get into, and the pay isn't that great, so doing it for financial reasons isn't usually advised. If you truly derive pleasure from it though, then there's not much to lose

Since Japanese media has a sort of cult-following in the West, and there's a lot of stuff untranslated, focus on translating things for fans that has not been translated yet. Anime, manga, music, commercials, whatever you can find to build experience and get a hang for it.

Aijin Wrote:Just make sure translation is something you enjoy, and that you find pleasure from it in itself. As others have stated, it's a very difficult career to get into, and the pay isn't that great, so doing it for financial reasons isn't usually advised. If you truly derive pleasure from it though, then there's not much to lose

Since Japanese media has a sort of cult-following in the West, and there's a lot of stuff untranslated, focus on translating things for fans that has not been translated yet. Anime, manga, music, commercials, whatever you can find to build experience and get a hang for it.

that's good advice. I know this is something I enjoy. How do I know? Because I'm constantly spending time on this and not becoming bored of it.
A lot of people have told me I'm hardcore when it comes to learning japanese but when I think about it. That isn't exactly true. That used to be true in the beginning phases but now, the time I spend on it is becoming less(that's good in a way, because that means I've gotten to a good point)

So far, I just need to keep going.

Here's an idea. Translate this whole site (kanj.koohii.com) into japanese.... first the menus, and the frame of the site, then *all* of the content (comments, ect). By the time you are finished you'll be perfect in japanese
I never knew that JLPT1, JLPT2, ect is a qualification... I don't think it qualifies you for anything....

Raschaverak Wrote:Here's an idea. Translate this whole site (kanj.koohii.com) into japanese.... first the menus, and the frame of the site, then *all* of the content (comments, ect). By the time you are finished you'll be perfect in japanese
I never knew that JLPT1, JLPT2, ect is a qualification... I don't think it qualifies you for anything....

Guess just an initially qualification? Not too sure, I just seen it posted on one of the job posting

Translating this whole forum into japanese? I have to take that slowly in order to make it correct.

[If your referring to the format of the site. I.e. the site bars,etc. Then that can be done but it will take some time.

Just my 2 yen, but ....

Basically being a translator sounds interesting at first sight, but then again I can imagine that it also might be super boring because all you do all day is sit in front of your computer and ... well, translate.
Furthermore, people always keep saying that you won't earn much.

In my case it's even more difficult, because my language is not as common as English and thus there are not so many job opportunities and the market seems to be very competitive (I'm a German native speaker).

chochajin Wrote:Just my 2 yen, but ....

Basically being a translator sounds interesting at first sight, but then again I can imagine that it also might be super boring because all you do all day is sit in front of your computer and ... well, translate.
Furthermore, people always keep saying that you won't earn much.

In my case it's even more difficult, because my language is not as common as English and thus there are not so many job opportunities and the market seems to be very competitive (I'm a German native speaker).

True but this won't be my main career though .It's just something I want to build up on. Like most people say, this shouldn't your main source of income. As the money isn't really good(depending)

Money will never be good for any sort of fiction, since there are a ton of people who will do it for free just because they like the source material/genre. No one loves patents or financial statements so much that they'll do it for free though. Don't do anime translation unless you'd be willing to do it for free, because you'll make less than working at a grocery store if you bother to do a good job of it (unlike every anime fansub I've read). Translation that makes good money isn't fun or easy, that is why it's good money.

Re: grammar. Yes it is important, but not in the way you think. There are no absolute rules for grammar. If you're doing published work then it's best to stick to whatever style guide is most popular in the region/paper it'll be published in. If it's in-house it matters less. I translate full-time for Toyota/Lexus marketing and Toyota has their own definition of grammar, which is wrong by most people's judgment, but it's what I need to use. They also have non-English speaking Japanese writers make up Japlish and it needs to be used in the English copy too since it's a phrase that is the key design concept etc. You also need to be aware of English dialects. Depending on the destination I have to write in British English or American English. In other words, you need to be aware of grammar(s) and be conscious of what you're writing.

Re: insurance. If you're going 100% independent freelance then it's worth considering. Before I started at my company someone mistranslated brake as clutch and it cost the company $60k to reprint all the manuals. As an alternative you can write a no-liability clause into your contract and see if the client will sign it.

Jarvik, just wondering, I know the money is not good in general translation, but could you give a range for how much a decently experienced legal/financial translator might be able to make?

I'm assuming its still relatively low but haven't been able to find any data on this. Is it just completely dependent on how much work the individual gets? If so how much would an average speed translator who is busy all the time expect to make?

Jarvik7 Wrote:Money will never be good for any sort of fiction, since there are a ton of people who will do it for free just because they like the source material/genre. No one loves patents or financial statements so much that they'll do it for free though. Don't do anime translation unless you'd be willing to do it for free, because you'll make less than working at a grocery store if you bother to do a good job of it (unlike every anime fansub I've read). Translation that makes good money isn't fun or easy, that is why it's good money.

Re: grammar. Yes it is important, but not in the way you think. There are no absolute rules for grammar. If you're doing published work then it's best to stick to whatever style guide is most popular in the region/paper it'll be published in. If it's in-house it matters less. I translate full-time for Toyota/Lexus marketing and Toyota has their own definition of grammar, which is wrong by most people's judgment, but it's what I need to use. They also have non-English speaking Japanese writers make up Japlish and it needs to be used in the English copy too since it's a phrase that is the key design concept etc. You also need to be aware of English dialects. Depending on the destination I have to write in British English or American English. In other words, you need to be aware of grammar(s) and be conscious of what you're writing.

Re: insurance. If you're going 100% independent freelance then it's worth considering. Before I started at my company someone mistranslated brake as clutch and it cost the company $60k to reprint all the manuals. As an alternative you can write a no-liability clause into your contract and see if the client will sign it.

good advice there. You know, I actually do want to do those types of translations. For gaining experience of course. And in all honesty, I do like manga/anime/various translations. But just like anyone in the world. I want to make some money as well. Sure this won't be my main career-job in the future(but since i know japanese, I want to put it to some good use)

Although if I want to do technical/literal translations. Then I'm definitely going to be reading up on those things a lot. Manuals,etc in english. And see the format/pattern for them. Since I'm in chem/bio program. I see procedures,etc all the time. So I do have some knowledge of how it's formatted. But definitely got to read up on it.

I'm trying to get into freelance translations, but since I have no experience at the moment. I gotta build up on it. At the moment I will worry about working on my translations skills/English and obviously learn more japanese. Especially more vocab/kanji.

greatfool Wrote:Jarvik, just wondering, I know the money is not good in general translation, but could you give a range for how much a decently experienced legal/financial translator might be able to make?

I've a friend in Tokyo working as a legal translator (though he's not a lawyer) who makes 50man a month after 4-5 years at the company. Prior to that he had no professional xlation experience.

I've heard interpretation can actually earn money, but I don't know how recent that information is. The person with whom I spoke did it a while ago.

Interesting thread.

Back on the first page someone said technical translation is "in," and he's right. If you're cool doing manuals and technical stuff - especially medical equipment - there's bound to be work out there for you. I can't speak on behalf of the pay but I'd wager you'll get more translating such technical documents.

Also had a talk with my former professor since I was thinking a lot about trying to get a translation job - she said she did if for a summer for an auto-company back in her college days and it was grueling work. I can imagine it's quite the series of mental gymnastics.

Still I'm looking to try my hand too, at least get some experience to keep my options. Waiting on a reply from a guy I know who does medical translations.... here's hoping.

(but every time I look at job listings and see something that is for full-time translation, it sounds a hell of a lot harder and less fun than my current English teaching job, and I wonder about that unpaid overtime, heh)

Found some useful articles:
http://www.translation-and-languages.com...egree.html

http://www.cvtips.com/career-success/gai...-jobs.html

http://www.jobmonkey.com/translating/int...ining.html

Very useful info about how to get into translation work (so far, there are only two ways of getting in, well based on these articles)