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Examples of eloquent Japanese speakers

#1
My question is mainly concerned with the standard of eloquence (or what is considered as "eloquent") among Japanese people. I'm currently working hard on my Japanese speech production skills, and giving focus to a lot of the usual stuff (pronunciation, prosody, fluency, etc), which is why I'm concerned with this.

Some background: When I speak English, I try my best to avoid the "umms" and "uhhs"; if I must think, then I silence myself, and proceed with speaking only once I've considered what I should continue saying next. The effect of this is that I sound more deliberate when I speak, as if I were weighing my thoughts before saying them; and this only because I pause a lot more and don't do all of the sounds that demarcate the actual contents of speech. (I like to think that pausing makes you sound eloquent, though I may be mistaken -- for instance, Barack Obama, who I'd rate as eloquent, doesn't do "umms" or "uhhhs", and as a result he sounds great (or rather, best) even when his speech is simple and uses even simpler words.)

Now, I'd like to do the same with my Japanese; i.e. I'd really like to be able to speak clearly and eloquently, without all of the usual "あの”(s) and "えええっと"(s) that marks Japanese speech. But in most of the live videos I've seen (e.g. news, Diet speeches, etc), a lot of them still go through the same あの and えっと routines; is this a common feature even among eloquent Japanese speakers? Perhaps my exposure isn't enough, so do you know of any Japanese speakers whom you'd rate as eloquent, and could you point me in the direction of his video? I plan to understand what an eloquent Japanese is like, and base my style of speech off that.
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#2
ryuukohito Wrote:(I like to think that pausing makes you sound eloquent, though I may be mistaken -- for instance, Barack Obama, who I'd rate as eloquent, doesn't do "umms" or "uhhhs", and as a result he sounds great (or rather, best) even when his speech is simple and uses even simpler words.)
Personally, I think he sounds strange sometimes. When you have a 10-word sentence broken up by two or three 2-3 second pauses, it's not very engaging. It does really depend where you pause and for how long, I guess. I think with any pause-fillers (or lack of) it's all about moderation.

As for sounding more eloquent in Japanese, you might be interested in the sort of training news/TV announcers go through. It's called 発声練習. Try the sentences in the blue boxes here. That woman has a full video (here's the vowels), but I don't know if it'd be worth getting.
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#3
Javizy Wrote:As for sounding more eloquent in Japanese, you might be interested in the sort of training news/TV announcers go through. It's called 発声練習. Try the sentences in the blue boxes here. That woman has a full video (here's the vowels), but I don't know if it'd be worth getting.
That's a fairly interesting video. Does anyone know of any particular politicians or speakers who they think are eloquent?
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#4
田中角栄


小泉純一郎



Both very popular prime ministers. They hardly ever use えー or あのー.
Edited: 2010-10-01, 11:00 am
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#5
Yeah Koizumi seems like a decent speaker, also the last really charismatic prime minister, but I think he is the exception.

If you want eloquent speaking, the current group of Japanese politicians is the last place to look.
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#6
I'm afraid you'll only be able to find said examples by interacting with Japanese people and reading Japanese books. English speakers learning Japanese are typically only concerned with trying to learn how to speak like a street thug (=yakuza) or a 5 year old (why are we using 僕 at age 32? ;/) haha.

I guess, if you are looking for educated company, you could try indulging in some of the things Japanese people consider elegant. I wonder if Genji falls into this category?
Edited: 2010-10-01, 10:20 pm
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#7
ocircle Wrote:I'm afraid you'll only be able to find said examples by interacting with Japanese people and reading Japanese books. English speakers learning Japanese are typically only concerned with trying to learn how to speak like a street thug (=yakuza) or a 5 year old (why are we using 僕 at age 32? ;/) haha.
Most educated men use 僕. 俺 is too aggressive in most public contexts (and infact seems rather juvenile/uneducated if you've had much exposure to Japanese children or dropouts) and 私 is too effeminate unless it's a formal setting. Most of my male coworkers use 僕 in the office.
Edited: 2010-10-02, 6:59 am
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#8
nu scylun hergan
hefaenricaes uard
metudæs maecti
end his modgidanc
uerc uuldurfadur
swe he uundra gihwaes
eci dryctin
or astelidæ
he aerist scop
aelda barnum
heben til hrofe
haleg scepen.
tha middungeard
moncynnæs uard
eci dryctin
æfter tiadæ
firum foldu
frea allmectig

This is an Old English poem from Genji era.( Cædmon's Hymn, circa 1000)
I have no idea what it's saying.

Now,
 いづれの御時にか、 女御、更衣あまた さぶらひたまひけるなかに、 いとやむごとなき際にはあらぬが、すぐれて 時めきたまふありけり。

This is Genji. I think it's a bit better, I recognize several words, but basically I have no idea either...

And if saying 'boku' is a problem at a young age of 32, I, 38 years old, should be shot in the head Tongue
Edited: 2010-10-02, 2:09 am
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#9
masaman Wrote:And if saying 'boku' is a problem at a young age of 32, I, 38 years old, should be shot in the head Tongue
At that age, you must not merely call youself 'washi' but "ウイシわし."

Do it. It'll be funny.
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#10
hereticalrants Wrote:
masaman Wrote:And if saying 'boku' is a problem at a young age of 32, I, 38 years old, should be shot in the head Tongue
At that age, you must not merely call youself 'washi' but "ウイシわし."

Do it. It'll be funny.
Dude, you sound like you've been to some hardcore いなか. I have no idea what ウイシ means. You are more おじさん than me Tongue Tongue Tongue
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#11
I think he means wishy-washy
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#12
外山恒一

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