Hey all,

I recently purchased my first DSLR camera, 2nd hand for super cheap (EOS20D) $400. I was wondering if there are any other photographers here?

flickr etc!

I really dont like the lens it came with, an 18-55 EFS zoom lens. I'm trying to find a 2nd hand 50mm f 1.8 or 1.4 prime lens for cheap, if I cant find anything I'll just buy a brand new f1.8. Gosh it's a damn expensive hobby, and I've purchased nothing brand new at all yet, I'm already after purchasing a violin as well.

I've already rss'ed to a bunch of nerdy photo blogs, and am googling for decent books that are preferably technically heavy in theory, if anyone has any recommendations please pop em down.

Hi,

Guess I'll pop my forum cherry on a non-language related topic. I'm not really a photog as much as someone who had a passing interest in the technical aspects of the hobby before (though I did take some pictures in the past). As such, while I can't really share any flickers I hope I can offer some tips on technicalities. The 50mm is a bit of a pet peeve of mine actually, which is in fact why I'm posting.

Grats on your new camera, I think Canon's x0D series are some of the best cameras in regards to the inevitable compromise between size/weight and usability. A fast prime is always a good idea, but I think you ought to reconsider the 50mm. 50mm lenses used to be recommended because they are fast, cheap, and most importantly because they offer a similar field of view as you would see with your own eyes. Your 20D has a smaller sensor than the 35mm cameras of olden times (lawd, I can't write that word without envisioning the kanji.), and as such the part of the image circle that covers the sensor will be smaller. As a consequence, what you will see on your pictures and in your viewfinder is only a smaller area in the middle of the image circle cast by the lens. In turn this will make it seem like you are "zoomed in", if you will excuse the term. The perspective will be flattened, and your field of view will be narrower. For portraiture this is ok, but for a standard, walkaround lens it's somewhat problematic. It's simply not that useful for most people, as it's not wide enough. You could be the exception of course, but it's a good idea to experiment with your kit lens and see what focal lengths you use the most. Another argument against the 50mm on < 35mm cameras is that the increase in focal length make them harder to hand hold at slow shutter speed. Many people (I'm not sure you're one of them) buy fast primes to be able to shoot at lower lighting conditions than what zoom lenses would allow them. However, at an equivalent field of view of 80mm (50mm * 1.6) on traditional cameras, you're essentially wielding a short telephoto lens. Longer focal length means that small movements on your part translate to big movements in the image, which in turn makes it easier for pictures to become blurry unless you use a fast shutter speed. I'd recommend against buying a new lens without first checking what type photography you enjoy. While the kit lens isn't awesome, it is small, light and adequate. If you decide to get a traditional 50mm equivalent, I'd suggest looking into Canon's 28/2.8 or 35/2.0 (I'd guess. I've never used Canon gear myself), or particularly Sigma's 30/1.4, which I believe offers a great bang for the buck. Just make sure you get a copy without backfocus (in which case you do, you'd have to send it to Sigma for calibration.).

As for reading, I recommend doing it as little as possible. Get a grasp on a few basic compositional techniques (eg. rule of thirds, leading lines, framing, etc.) and use them actively when you feel they add to your pictures. Photography is a practical art, so you're far better off taking pictures and trying to get constructive feedback from a good, serious website (ie. neither flickr or /p/), than to read a whole lot without putting it into practice. If you really want some reading material, many people seem to like "Perception and Imaging", but any general book on composition should work. The following article is good, and should be enough: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/column...on-2.shtml The articles on this website tends to hold very high quality standards, so it might be worth browsing -- especially if you feel you'll like landscape photography. Probably my favorite photography website on the web.

I read far too much when I started on this hobby some years ago, and it killed it for me. If you find you're reading more than 10% of you your shooting (at least in the beginning), you need to get out more.
*Enjoy* your new hobby. Don't read about it. Having fun, is much more important, and you'll improve more by doing than by reading. Biggest tip: Don't obsess over gear. What you have now is more than enough to take excellent photographs.

Hope that help, and enjoy.

PS: I might be getting some technical terms wrong, as it's a long time since I've been into this stuff. Feel free to correct me.

[ファブリス]

This should go in Koohii Lounge. Topic moved.

Hey liosama. I got my first DSLR last October after returning from a trip to Japan and realizing my photos would have been a lot better if I had one at the time!

I second alakirrak's advice. I bought some books to begin with, and while I'm sure they contain some helpful information, I just couldn't get through them. Boring! I still have a lot to learn, but found just walking around with my camera and playing with the aperture, ISO, etc. taught me more than I could have learned from a book.

I do enjoy Digital Photography magazine though. (The UK mag, not the US mag.) It has a lot of Photoshop techniques, but also runs articles on the basics.

I have a 50mm 1.4 (Nikon). I really enjoy it for "artsy" type prints. The shallow depth of field can really create some great pics. I also have a 35mm 1.8 which is a little more practical for general walking around shots.

Last year, my friend and I decided to give ourselves a task and start a blog in order to learn how to use our cameras. We each had to take one picture representing each letter of the alphabet. Our pics aren't that great, but we learned a lot. I found having someone to take pictures with really made it more enjoyable.

Good luck!

http://twentysixpics.blogspot.com/2010_0...chive.html

I bought a fancy DSLR (T1i) and everything last year and... I don't really feel like I'm skilled enough to use it. I'm completely geared out too: tripod / flash / lenses, but when it comes down to it, I don't really take enough pictures.

In an effort to cut down on bulk, I only brought a 50mm f/1.8 to Japan. It actually taught me a huge lesson in perspective and the differences in focal length. I also quickly realized that 50mm on a cropped camera can look really odd.

Here's a picture off of the Shinsaibashi bridge:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-s...1707_n.jpg

Notice that photo seems really narrow and that a wider angle would've been much better. (Yes, I'm aware that the quality is worse on Facebook, but I'm looking at the composition.)

Recently I bought the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8, expecting a huge difference in quality... not really. Well, arguably there's a little bit more detail, and indoor shots are much much better since it can shoot better at wider apertures. But if I just went outside and shot pictures, the 18-55mm is just as good. Before upgrading to the EF-S 17-55, I shot primarily with the EF 28-105 F/3.5-F/4.5, which I think is just the kit lens for the 5D and was available for cheap at $80.

It's also worth considering how you're going to display your pictures. Sharpness in a lens matters if you blow up the picture, but if you're just gonna post on facebook or use resized pictures on flickr, kit lens is still good. Heck, Point-and-Shoot cameras are still good.

With a zoom lens, you may be tempted to stand in one place and just zoom in and out. Instead, select your focal range first, and then determine where you want to stand. Think in perspective.

The other thing I would recommend is to always try new angles. If you look at pictures of food, nearly all of them use a 45-60 degree angle, because that's the angle that we tend to view food. But try shooting from the side, shooting close, shooting far, shooting overhead. Same with shooting people and events. Don't just stand up and take pictures. Think of angles, overhead angles, lying down and shooting up, vertical orientations, etc.

Good luck, and take more pictures than you read!

alakirrak - At the moment I'm not so much interested in landscapey shots, i'm much more fond of close up shots on small things. But yeah I'm aware of the 'multiplier' factor with non full frame lenses. The main reason I plan on getting a 50mm prime is because its the cheapest darn thing out there (brand new!)
I'm trying as hard as I can to find 2nd hand lenses though, I don't see the point in buying stuff new, one would think expensive equipment like lenses would be taken care of, and I can try before I buy so I'll know if its dodgy or has dust in it etc.

I understand what you mean about the reading part, I'm just so interested in photography from a high level pov as I've always been a fan of photography and cinematopgrahy (<3 wong kar wai! etc) but I come from an optics background as well so I was really hoping for some technical reading in that regard too.

But you are right, nothing helps more than getting out there and experimenting as I won't be interested in reading stuff like "in this kind of weather, use this shutter speed with that ISO bla bla" I'd much rather muck around on my own with that.

Groovee_grl: Yes I loveee shallow depth of field shots! I looked through your blog, you have some really cool shots in there! And that's great, at work we're sort of starting a mini-project like that as well, where at the end of every week, we plan to look at each others photos and upload them all of them onto a local account.

kainzero: Yeah, that's another reason why I'm getting the 50mm f/1.8, it makes you physically move and think harder about where to shoot/make a good shot. And as for angles: I'll try work my technique




I won't blow anything up yet, but I still prefer dslr's over point & shoots, even if it is for flickr.


And thanks everyone for the posts again!

Here are some of my first shots ever. What I love most about it is that I can totally be myself when I'm out and about shooting photos. By that I mean, when I'm alone I really wish I could just stop and enjoy looking at something obscure or beautiful, but it'd be socially awkward seeing a guy bending down looking underneath a park bench seat or gum in between bricks on a wall or something, but a camera gives me a perfect excuse to do what I want, where I want and when I want! I was wondering if you guys feel the same?




This one I did by flipping the lens around to get it to mimic a macro shot. Heh, they didn't turn out that great, but it was so hard holding the lens with one hand and shooting with my right. If only macro lenses were cheap :\



An even closer shot of a Sage stem

I think it's good that you're going for something that takes your interest (macro-ey shots, e.g.). It's the way to go!

Going back to the books part of the discussion, the best technical book for me was "The Negative" by Ansel Adams. Of course nowadays "the camera will take the picture for you" :/ and people may well say Why do you need to over-complicate things, but I think it's like RTK - it's worth a bit of study to get some proper proficiency later. Nobody particularly needs to learn the Zone System that he describes in the book, but I think that knowing it exists might make a difference to the results you get.

There will be plenty of more modern books, but I don't know what they say, because I haven't read any of them.

The most fun photography book is "Slightly Out of Focus" by Robert Capa. It's biographical.

What Cartier-Bresson says is always worth a look at, for example he says somewhere that a good way to tell a good picture is to look at it upside-down. It will still have a good balance of proportions, if it ever had one, but you will be able to see it for sure rather than looking at what it's a picture of.

Also many good photographers tell us to look at paintings to learn how to do it. I would agree with that too, no matter what you are making a picture of. Pictures are always expressing something, whether we mean them to or not, so it's nice to know how the masters did it

That's pretty much everything I can tell you!

for macro I liked John Shaw's Closeups in Nature

If you're not ready to shell out the money for a macro lens, a reversing ring would be a good, cheap buy so you don't have to hold your lens on those close up shots.

Hope you'll share some more of your pictures with us.

nice close up pictures. Those are more interesting than landscape ones

Ok I've gone mad.



I'm sorry I didn't listen to any of you, i've been both reading up and taking pictures, and buying stuff. I have a new found obsession for old manual lenses, so i've been ebaying and scavenging around for super takumar/SUN tele lenses. I'm so in love with them. I recently won a nice carl zeiss prime on ebay as well, and those two spotmatic slr's you see I bought because they come with SMC 1.4/1.8 prime lenses, another spotmatic + prime is coming my way. It's so funny the way things work, you buy a spotmatic + prime lens for like $50-80 on ebay, the lens alone tends to go for 100+, (last one I saw went for $158) so either way I'm not losing anything.

I haven't played around that much with them though, 6 of those lenses only arrived on my doorstep just yesterday.

I'm reading bits and pieces from all the ebooks I've managed to find from you guys and whatever website I find while randomly googling when bored at work. I have so many ideas boiling away in my head, and I'm ever eager to start with them! I might be working in the city soon and have many potential upcoming shots.



ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

!!

nice! I way prefer using film cameras but man the processing costs mount up. I would buy so many cameras if I could test them cheaply...

Anyone got any tips on keeping the costs down? Japan specifically would be nice

I've gone in way too deep with this photography thing. So it has been more or less 6 months since I started shooting. I've purchased film cameras, shot in film but have not yet processed any of the rolls I shot with. I'm planning to go through 15-30 or so rolls before I move up to Medium format.

In any case I still have much to learn. Unfortunately, working full time really screws everything up. I only ever have time to go shooting every Friday night, which I've done for about 2-3 months.

Caivano: I'm still not sure, I'm still trying to find out where abouts I can go get my film scanned, I need to make friends with some media kids at University who can hopefully give me access to a high res scanner. I'm really really into film. I'm not anti-digital, rather, I'm just anti-postprocessing-people-who-upload-photos-without-stating-what-they've-done. Plus I love the look and feel of film, it feels so much more raw.

I would develop some of that film ASAP to make sure your cameras are working properly. Or shoot a test roll at a color target, just to make sure your lenses aren't out of whack, fogged, or that your body isn't leaking somewhere. Otherwise, you're going to throw a lot of good money away on film.

For developing: Search around on someplace like photo.net to find a professional developer in your country who also does high-res scans, with a good rep among photogs. Find someone who has spent the money on a decent machine that will produce top-notch scans in a relatively-dust-free environment, or has good software to deal with/prevent dust spots on scans as part of the development process.

If you scan it yourself, dust will become your top enemy, and a major PITA. Or at least understand that you will need to budget the extra time to fix your negs/slides in Photoshop.

I love film as much as a lot of other photographers, because digital generally just lacks what I can produce with a film camera. None of my digital cameras (including my Canon SLR) can reproduce what I can get with my old rangefinder.

But digital has a much faster workflow, and I don't wind up with a basement full of old developing chems that need to be disposed of properly, and stack of old film in the fridge which will deliver mysterious results... both of which I need to deal with at some point. *Sigh*

rich_f Wrote:If you scan it yourself, dust will become your top enemy, and a major PITA.

this is a non-issue if you have the right scanner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh

cangy Wrote:this is a non-issue if you have the right scanner

So where do I buy one?

you'll want to process a test roll first whenever you get new equipment (especially 2nd hand)

if you want to scan yourself, I'd recommend slide film (so you have a reference for the scan), having it processed as strips (i.e. unmounted -- it's cheaper, and easier to scan), and getting a film scanner with a strip feeder (for bulk scanning) and an IR channel (for automatic dust removal -- nikon licence Digital ICE, but there're others that are equivalent)

After mentioning bokeh above, I keep running into bokeh-related articles in my news-perusal:

Optical Music: Bibio’s New Album, Videos, Inspired by Bokeh, Film, and Optical Effects

Bring Your Work into Focus with These Mostly Bokeh Wallpapers

Then I found this simple bokeh camera mod from MAKE magazine.