Hey folks,

lately i started getting my head into particles, so i decided buying this book here: "Japanese Particle Workbook" by T. Kamiya. It covers first of all particles, introduces you, then tests your gained knowledge through excersises (solutions given at the end of the book in a kind of appendix).

1) I just do not get the hang of "ga" and "wa" -- i know there are thousands of discussions about both of these outta there on the forums, but the explanations don't help me unfortunately.
2) "wa" marks the topic as mentioned in the book. What's the difference then between "ni" and "niwa"? In the sentences i see the topic would be the same as the destination/location which is marked with "ni", so i have to use/could use possibly always "niwa" then?

2.1) Asoko ni koen ga aru. | Note: Why "ni" and not "niwa"? in one book i read it MUST be niwa - not just ni!
2.2) Tanaka-san wa doko desu ka. | Can you say it like this instead of "tanaka-san wa doko ni imasu ka."?

3) What's the difference between "niwa" and "dewa"? both indicate location don't they? "at your place" -> where's the place of YOU is the topic of the sentence
4) In german the topic seems to be the subject in 99% and same with english -- how to differentiate in japanese?

4.1) Gakusei ha kimashita. Gakusei ga Sumisu-san desu. | After the solution this is wrong and has to be first ga and then wa. Is my solution also possible?
4.2) Ano kaidan ga tsukawanaide kudasai. | After the solution it has to be ha. See questions above. Why and if it's correct like that as well.
4.3) Iie, Wada-san ga isha dewa arimasen. Yamada-san ha isha desu. | After the solution it has to be first ha and then ga. See above.

5) "ga - wa" construction: in "understanding basic japanese grammar", there is a construction mentioned, named like written. When does it apply when not?

Thanks in advance for answering and explaining,
Tori

Tori-kun Wrote:1) I just do not get the hang of "ga" and "wa" -- i know there are thousands of discussions about both of these outta there on the forums, but the explanations don't help me unfortunately.

This is because it's just fundamentally difficult if your native language doesn't have a topic marker. I don't think it's likely that you'll ever find a single explanation (either on a forum or in a textbook or reference book) that will make it all clear to you. You have to keep going despite not really having a clear grasp, and come back to the problem periodically...

Quote:2) "wa" marks the topic as mentioned in the book. What's the difference then between "ni" and "niwa"? In the sentences i see the topic would be the same as the destination/location which is marked with "ni", so i have to use/could use possibly always "niwa" then?

'ni' marks a location (and some other things). 'niwa' is just saying "the topic of this sentence (marked with ha) is this 'something-something-ni' clause". The difference is the same as the difference between "Tanaka-san ga imashita" and "Tanaka-san ha imashita" (because you can't say "gaha" or "woha", the "ha" always 'hides' the ga or wo.)

Quote:2.1) Asoko ni koen ga aru. | Note: Why "ni" and not "niwa"? in one book i read it MUST be niwa - not just ni!

I think that this book is wrong unless it meant specifically "in this context 'ni' is wrong/weird/nonsensical".

Quote:3) What's the difference between "niwa" and "dewa"? both indicate location don't they? "at your place" -> where's the place of YOU is the topic of the sentence

It's the same as the difference between "ni" and "de". Very rough summary: "de" marks the location where some action is happening and is used with most verbs. "ni" is used with verbs that just say "something is here" like 'iru', 'aru' and 'sumu' and can also (like 'e') be used for the 'target location' for 'iku' and 'kuru'.
This isn't related to 'ha' at all and is much less complicated.

Quote:4) In german the topic seems to be the subject in 99% and same with english -- how to differentiate in japanese?

I'm not sure what you mean here...

Quote:4.1) Gakusei ha kimashita. Gakusei ga Sumisu-san desu. | After the solution this is wrong and has to be first ga and then wa. Is my solution also possible?

Not really. This is about the way that 'ga' typically introduces something new, whereas the topic 'ha' marks something we already knew about and are being told more information about.

Quote:4.2) Ano kaidan ga tsukawanaide kudasai. | After the solution it has to be ha.

Again, this is the topic being something we already know -- we can see it, the speaker's probably pointing at it. We already know it exists, but we're being told something new about it (ie that we should not use it). The reason 'ga' does not work is that 'tsukau' is a transitive verb, and 'kaidan' is its object. If you wanted a sentence without 'ha' it would be 'ano kaidan wo tsukawanaide kudasai'.

Quote:4.3) Iie, Wada-san ga isha dewa arimasen. Yamada-san ha isha desu. | After the solution it has to be first ha and then ga. See above.

'ha' and negatives go together a lot. We know Wada, and the new information is that he is not a dentist, so 'ha'. The second one is 'ga' because we didn't previously know Yamada: the important bit of the sentence is not "he is a dentist" but "it is *Yamada* who is the dentist". (Rubin talks a bit in _Making Sense of Japanese_ about the way that 'ha' tends to throw emphasis forward onto the rest of the sentence whereas 'ga' tends to throw emphasis back onto what it's marking.)

Any recommendation on webpages/scripts/books about particles? I really do not get the hang of "dewa" and "niwa":

* dewa: de expresses an action being performed -> Kanjis are being written on the blackboard. "Blackboard de" | what's with the wa then? When to use de and when dewa?
* niwa: expresses a state ("A ga B niwa aru/iru" construction)

Also problematic is "wo vs. Ga". I read somewhere special verbs require ga/wo. So both can be used to describe a direct object (accusative in english f.e. I ate bread. Whom did i eat? -> Bread.)

Thanks for any advise!

Tori-kun Wrote:Also problematic is "wo vs. Ga". I read somewhere special verbs require ga/wo. So both can be used to describe a direct object (accusative in english f.e. I ate bread. Whom did i eat? -> Bread.)

I think that the best way to look at this (for a beginner) is the very simple view: subjects are marked with 'ga', direct objects are marked with 'wo'. In this view of the world, a few verbs take a 'subject' you might not expect (eg for 'wakaru' the subject is the thing that is clear/understood, eg 'eigo ga wakaru') and some sentence patterns are best just learned as patterns, eg 'meronpan ga tabetai' [wo is also OK here]. But none of this applies in a simple example like the translation of the English you give: "pan wo tabemashita; nani wo tabemashita ka?" where wo is the only option.

Basically: yes, there are a few odd special cases. But if you're in any doubt at all about the role of ga and wo in simple sentences like "dare ga pan wo tabemashita ka" then I think you need more practice with simple sentences, not a detailed grammar explanation that tries to cover all possible ga and wo uses. Also if you are having trouble with wo vs ga or ni vs de then stop worrying about ha and sort these out first...

Tori-kun Wrote:...lately i started getting my head into particles...

Me, too, Tori-kun!

Tori-kun Wrote:...so i decided buying this book here: "Japanese Particle Workbook" by T. Kamiya...

Me, too, Tori-kun! I ordered it this afternoon (before I read your thread), so it seems GMTA. I'm expecting it to be delivered by the end of the week. I can't wait to dive into it because, right now, particles are very confusing to me. Here's hoping we both have a better understanding as we work through the workbook.