AnnaB Wrote:This is exactly what was said about American and European women until enough of them called bull*** on it. The fact that so many women choose to work in spite of discrimination, sexual harassment, and low pay, while simultaneously carrying the family's entire housekeeping and childcare burden, argues against the alleged universal popularity of the housewife dream.

More like housewife ultimatum. Either you work or you're supported. There is no in between. Though, I don't think the few woman working and caring for the family are contrary to the "dream" of just having to stay at home. These women are often single, which means they don't have a choice. Marring and being supported is actually the more logical choice (and with Jarvik's example, it is the baking of cookies, or cooking in general, that is the dream).

IceCream Wrote:Loooooong poooooost.....

.....


AND a family.

All you did was make a longer version of what he typed @_@. I think the nuances you pointed are were pretty much given.

Quote:It's not because women are prudes that there isn't high demand for porn in the slightest.

He didn't say that. You started at B and got D. What he said was, if you are offended by the availability of porn just because it's male orient, you are being a prude, not the prudishness of women is the reason for the demand being low....

But personally, I think that to be true, somewhat. Think about it! Women give power to women and men by giving power to the word slut. If more women admitted to being sexual beings with sexual desire there would be more female oriented sexual materials readily available.

Quote:1. Most women i know are way more interested in romance, beauty, feeling something, than just seeing someone stick it in someone.

There is more than enough of that on Fuji TV (that shady, dirty network). In fact, I think that's what the network was made for (the filth).

Also, given the right circumstance, I'm sure those "most" women you know would enjoy watching someone stick it in someone. You're not really helping out the female condition by perpetuating this "feeling" stereotype. Because when it comes down to it, a lot of the "feeling" stereotype is a mechanism designed to help avoid being labeled a "slut." Not saying all of it is, but a LOT.

Quote:2. Go to whatever porn site and actually look at the titles. "Slut masturbates her pussy" "Big jugg wifey ducks huge black shaft". Are you seriously suggesting that women have to be prudes to not like that so much?

Well, I'd imagine "Promiscuous as compared to the population at large female human being manually stimulates herself" and "Mammarianly well endowed female engages in simulated copulation with an artificially enlarged genitalia bearing human of African descent" would be a little too long and hard to read for the average user. Though, I have seen similar titles by Japanese producers. -_^

I'm not too sure what's going on, but this is probably all Hannah Minx's fault.

What you wrote is a description of the relatively poor working conditions in Japan. I see no example of sexism there. Having a career and a family is not possible because of the expectations placed upon seishain, not because of genders. Someone is going to have to give up their career and its not socially acceptable for men to not support the family. The other option is to have a daycare raise your child for you.

If women are dissatisfied because housewifery is somewhat expected, then how about men? Very few women would want to marry a man who wanted to be a house husband and everyone would look down at him as being worthless. If women are forced into roles then men are doubly so. Also keep in mind that women almost universally control the money the husband earns.

Porn for women is sold in the form of romance novels. It is just as objectifying as the visual porn men tend to prefer. As for the captions on porn sites, I find them just as distasteful as you do. The sites you speak of are English sites and have nothing to do with Japan though. Actual Japanese sites are a lot more tasteful in their titles.

I kind of feel jealous of my girlfriend that she has a partner like me who will let her live the life of a housewife.

I want a girlfriend who will let me be a househusband. >: I like cooking and cleaning more than real work.

Just be sure not try to make a joke about 姦 with any Japanese or Chinese people, as it is often associated with rape. :/

Just popping in on a tangent.

Japanese people DO recognize the parts that make up the Kanji. Sure, they may more not learn it in the intricate way that Heisig does, but they do.

I know this because when I homestayed there I was baffled by complex Kanji. Frustrated, I asked my host brother how they could possibly distinguish two different complex Kanji apart quickly.

He told me "Oh, that's easy. I can see the small Kanjis that make up the bigger Kanji so I can tell it apart!"

Just something to think about.

IceCream Wrote:I don't know any girls who pretend they have no sexual desires.

That's not what I'm saying, yo. You might live in a world where it's perfectly normal to have sex with whomever you want whenever you want with little consequence, but that's not the reality for everyone. Maybe you are THAT* type of girl, others aren't.

IceCream Wrote:1. ummmm... didn't i already say i watch porn?!?

The post wasn't about you. Thought it was directed at you.

Quote:2. what female "condition"?

You know. Double standards and what not. Forgive me for being brief.

Quote:3. If you think that men and women view the world & relationships in the same way, you reallllllly need to get out more.

Way to pick up on more than what was written. I'm saying there's more variety than the stereotypical image you painted.

Quote:Trying to pretend that men and women think, feel, and experience stuff the same is just nuts if you ask me. This difference has been confirmed in every relationship i've ever seen, talked about, or experienced in my whole life.

Your life alone.

Quote:More drink. yesssss.

Slow it down a bit... there... buddy....

*obvious example is obvious...

dizmox Wrote:I like cooking and cleaning more than real work.

lol. Such work is probably just as real, even more, than what a bread winner does.

Psh, a housewife of mine would hardly have to do anything if we had no kids. Cleaning up an apartment every now and then, getting groceries, doing the laundry, making a lunchbox and cooking me a meal for when I get home wouldn't take more than an two hours a day.

zachandhobbes Wrote:Just popping in on a tangent.

Japanese people DO recognize the parts that make up the Kanji. Sure, they may more not learn it in the intricate way that Heisig does, but they do.

I know this because when I homestayed there I was baffled by complex Kanji. Frustrated, I asked my host brother how they could possibly distinguish two different complex Kanji apart quickly.

He told me "Oh, that's easy. I can see the small Kanjis that make up the bigger Kanji so I can tell it apart!"

Just something to think about.

Right. They do. I do. I guess I was just referring to the story part. I don't know if 数 coming from counting woman slaves is true or not, but the natives usually remember Kanji more like 立ち木の上で見る親 (Parents 親 who see 見 on a standing tree 立ち木) or stuff like that. A lot of people mix カタカナ in it too. 数 can be something like こめおんな に ノいちメ（米女にノ一メ）. I guess every Kanji has it's origin of how it was made, but it was like 3000 years ago and I don't know how accurate even the academic accepted knowledge is. People just generally don't care, or know, so if you don't like the "story", I think you can just make one up for yourself. One of the common ones for 姦 is 女三人集まれば姦（かしま）しい (It will be loud if three women get together), which I think isn't that bad compared to something that involves criminal activities.

That's how I learned 姦 as well, and that's how I explained myself out of the awkwardness, but it doesn't make for a good joke, due to the rape connotations. Learned from experience.

sethg Wrote:That's how I learned 姦 as well, and that's how I explained myself out of the awkwardness, but it doesn't make for a good joke, due to the rape connotations. Learned from experience.

Really? That's a classic Japanese one. But yeah, some jokes just don't fly. Most Japanese people aren't interested in Kanji as much as learners are.

IceCream Wrote:cmon! Use more precise language, at least. "have sex with whoever you want whenever you want"? That could be like, with 1 person 1 time a year or whatever.

This statement in itself, if not a jest, suggests that there is meaning in the amount of partners a women has over a given period of time. Don't you think?

Quote:Anyway, being THAT type of girl / boy is wayyy more to do with attitude if you ask me. If you live in a city, it is pretty normal to sleep with whoever whenever you want.
But no-ones gonna call you THAT unless you have some kind of dirty skanky attitude about it.

Cities. Humans. Live. Elsewhere. Too.

Video link in broken. Though, honestly, can you say you've never worried about being labeled like that?

IceCream Wrote:oh cmonnnnn. Give me some credit for intelligence, or at least not hypocrisy. When did i say that ALL GIRLS in ALL SITUATIONS are X?!? I wasn't trying to suggest that girls don't watch porn, or that they can't / don't have casual sex, or always want to feel something. That would be ridiculous. Just that those basic differences do feed into the reason that porn for women isn't the huuuge industry that it is for men.

Hmm... guess I musta misinterpreted what you are type ed. Either that or it's just something I felt needed to be to said. Been reading too much on psychology lately.

Quote:really? honestly? you think that there are absolutely no differences in the ways that men and women perceive things? And yes, we're talking statistically here. Well, science disagrees with you, and i'm pretty sure most of the population of the world does too...

That was supposed to be a question. You can't account for the experience of others, no? Though, it seems we're both getting the wrong signals. The paragraph I wrote began with, "also, given the right circumstances."

BTW, "most of the population of the world" used to think the earth was flat. You're a smart girl so you can gather what I mean by this.

Gawd, my head is hurting.

dizmox Wrote:Psh, a housewife of mine would hardly have to do anything if we had no kids. Cleaning up an apartment every now and then, getting groceries, doing the laundry, making a lunchbox and cooking me a meal for when I get home wouldn't take more than an two hours a day.

2 hours, sorry are you being sarcastic with me or something here, because I'm not following at all. You can't be serious can you? Have you ever cleaned and cooked a whole house before in your life? Being a housewife is a full-time job in itself. You can't just think of a housewife as your pet puppy that waits all day for you to come home and be petted. She has the ultra hard job of satisfying our excessive male ego too. Though in fairness, it's mutual since we have to put up with some yap yap yap for a while. But you get my drift.

There is a huge difference between cleaning properly, and moving shit out of the way. Cooking proper wholesome food, and ordering something for heating up. In any case unless you're very well off, this day and age it would be hard to survive financially with only 1 person working.

dizmox Wrote:Psh, a housewife of mine would hardly have to do anything if we had no kids. Cleaning up an apartment every now and then, getting groceries, doing the laundry, making a lunchbox and cooking me a meal for when I get home wouldn't take more than an two hours a day.

I have never met anyone who works in an office who did more than an hour of work a day.

The internet proves this since most board members are 'at work'.

masaman Wrote:I don't know if 数 coming from counting woman slaves is true or not,

The Kanjigen includes that as a viable theory, although the right side indicates "verb" (not "taskmaster").

liosama Wrote:

dizmox Wrote:Psh, a housewife of mine would hardly have to do anything if we had no kids. Cleaning up an apartment every now and then, getting groceries, doing the laundry, making a lunchbox and cooking me a meal for when I get home wouldn't take more than an two hours a day.

2 hours, sorry are you being sarcastic with me or something here, because I'm not following at all. You can't be serious can you? Have you ever cleaned and cooked a whole house before in your life? Being a housewife is a full-time job in itself. You can't just think of a housewife as your pet puppy that waits all day for you to come home and be petted. She has the ultra hard job of satisfying our excessive male ego too. Though in fairness, it's mutual since we have to put up with some yap yap yap for a while. But you get my drift.

There is a huge difference between cleaning properly, and moving shit out of the way. Cooking proper wholesome food, and ordering something for heating up. In any case unless you're very well off, this day and age it would be hard to survive financially with only 1 person working.

A small 1 bedroom flat does not take more than 20 minutes to clean up a day unless you have two very messy residents. |: Vacuuming each room only takes a few minutes. Cleaning up and making everything neat and tidy is fun anyway, at least to me.

I cook "proper wholesome food" every day for myself and it doesn't take any time at all. @_@ I just pop it on to cook while playing an MMO or something. Same for popping clothes in the laundry. Ironing takes a while more but nothing excessive.

I just don't understand how it'd be a full time job if it takes me an 1 hour a day to do my daily chores when living alone. My mum does a part time job, does all the housework (3 bedroom house), and still has plenty of free time.

I read this paper from the Society for the Study of Sexuality a while back, and thought it pertained a bit to the conversation.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Slash+fict...0114593253

Mainly, it's pertinant to IceCream and Kazelee's talk about porn, and to what extent women are interested in porn. The article definitely argues that women and men have vastly different taste in that kind of thing: romance novels are good at appealing to the fantasies of women, and porn is good at appealing to the fantasies of men.

Actually, the paper is about why many women enjoy slash fiction, but a good chunk of it compares porn and romance novels.

On the subject of marriage and gender roles, I think I actually read once that a big reason why young Japanese men and women aren't getting together is because of this difference in ideals when it comes to working. Supposedly a lot of men are looking for the more traditional housewives, but the women are getting much more career-oriented.

I think this might have been the article?: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-...usat_x.htm

KirbyHead Wrote:I think this might have been the article?: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-...usat_x.htm

"What's more, an increasing number of those visiting love hotels aren't there for romance, AERA says; they've found that love hotels offer the cheapest access to karaoke machines and video games."



My newest pick-up line:
So.... In the mood for karaoke?

Oh man, slumber party karaoke. I'm in for some crazy nights from now on.

Delusions of gender: http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010/...index.html

Something to counteract the occasional reek of "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus." ^_^

The link is extremely relevant to this thread and its comments. Like, that's a given. IMHO.

IceCream Wrote:it seems you have misunderstood the comments.

You're entitled to your opinion.

nest0r Wrote:Delusions of gender: http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010/...index.html

Something to counteract the occasional reek of "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus." ^_^

I also kind of thought that this article was somewhat unrelated.

A lot of the dicussion here was about differences related to sexual habits and childrearing. There are real biological differences between males and females in this area--such differences exist in all mammals because the female devotes more resources to childbirth (in fact, the definition of a female is that a female has the larger sex cell, meaning that the female devotes more resources). Because of this, different reproductive strategies are useful to males and females. Humans act almost exactly like other mammals when it comes to reprodutive strategies (The only big difference I know is that in many human cultures women devote a lot of resources to being beautiful in order to be chosen in sexual selection. With other mammals, usually the male is the one who is devoting the most resources to appeal to the opposite sex).

However, congnitive abilities, as well as things such as play (which toys are popular among which sex), are must less directly related to sexual habits and childrearing. Probably cognitive abilities would be equally useful in survival among both sexes, so I would expect them to be similar between the two.