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Moving to Osaka in 5 days - Last thoughts...

#1
Hi everyone!
I set out on this weird language-learning journey a year ago, and all of a sudden I'm moving to Japan. It's been really, really hard, yet really, really fun Smile
I know there are a lot of guys on here either living in Japan right now or have been living there at some point in their life.
I have a lot of questions about everything, but I'll keep this language oriented.

Like I said, I've been studying Japanese for about a year. I've been through RTK, KO2001 and have 11k+ cards going around in Anki.
That's good and everything, but from now on I won't have the "luxury" of 8-hours-a-day studying. And I don't want to continue that way either (that's why I'm moving to Japan!), I want to hang out with people, make friends, fail a lot of times and learn a lot.
BUT I've been thinking about something lately.
My listening comprehension is pretty okey - if, and only if - I know the words. That might seem pretty "well, duh!" to a lot of you, but since I won't be able to add a lot of cards etc next year, what should I do?
I've been hanging out with a Japanese friend of mine for a couple of days now and I feel the same way - If I know the words, then everything is clear as day, but if we start talking about a weird subject (today we started talking about the UN. Fail.) I'm lost.
Up until now I've been thinking "Well, I'll just talk and hang out with people all the time, and things will be fine!", but I'm starting to question this "learning by context" thing.
I'm not so worried about my output, even though it sucks much harder than my listening, because I've really experiences this "sponge-effect" if I'm just immersed enough in Japanese. But I have yet to experience it when it comes to learning new words, something I haven't already studied and know passively.

Next year I'll keep up my reviews (obviously) and try to add some cards as well (thinking about 15-20 words a day, should be do-able).
Will doing this as well as being out-going like crazy (well, I'll do my best :-D) do the trick?
I would really, really appreciate your thoughts on this. I'd love to hear your opinions and experiences.

Thank you so much!
Z
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#2
Congratulations on your trip!

I just want to know how you found 8 hours to study every day o_o are you a student?
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#3
I've never been to Japan and I've still got a long way to go with Japanese so I can't really comment on the language specifically. I can, however, share my experience with other languages (which still applies).

I speak 5 different languages and with all of those languages (excluding my native language and English), I was like you are now before attaining "fluency". I studied those languages and when I went to the countries, I felt the same as you. What I found out was that after a really short time, all of those words that didn't make sense and those moments when I didn't understand anything at all started disappearing. And I wasn't even studying anymore by then. Since I had a good base already, everything else was picked up with immersion and nowadays I can use them whenever I want and understand them with no trouble at all.

Basically, don't worry. You studied a lot and have a good base of the language so immersion will do the rest. Keep up with your reviews and enjoy your stay. Go out, make friends, talk to them a lot and don't hesitate on asking for help when you're lost in the conversation. You'll be surprised when you find yourself speaking like a native in some months.

Good luck!
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#4
Where you moving to in Osaka?
I move to Izumi City for a year in just over a week. Exchange student for a year.. Big Grin
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#5
Congrats. I leave for Tokyo on the 14th. Quit my job with the FBI believe it or not lol. I'll be attending ISI language school in Takadanobaba. Basically going the language school route as I don't need to work, and it was the easiest way to get a VISA. I've completed RTK1, and KO 2001 (although I reset my deck after screwing it up, but I'm already back to about the 1000 Kanji, aka about 3,600 words), and can blaze through JLPT level 3 Kanji/vocab section in about half the allotted time, but my listening still sucks. Still, I'm hoping this will be a good base to start from, and that it makes school work a relative breeze too haha.
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#6
I wish you good luck with everything.
I'm also European (German). I came to Japan in early 2008.
Unless most of you guys I didn't attend any language school here (although I really wanted to at first), because I just couldn't afford it.
Ever since I came I've been working full-time here, thus not so much time to study Japanese. Yet I think my Japanese improved quite a lot since I came here Smile
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#7
ah you are living my dream : ) I wish you all the best for your times ahead. And yes, how did you find 8 hours per day? Were you taking a gap year?

Hopefully I can do some of my medical degree, or training programs post-MBBS, in Japan. Well, I hope so, one day in the future ; )
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#8
How to use Japanese Restroom
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#9
When you meet a person with an unusual name and introduce each other, you most likely fail to hear some syllables and ask his name again even if it's in your mother tongue. You can't pick up a new word by just hearing it only a few times even in your native language unless its pronunciation is really really really simple and easy or natural and logical from its meaning and grammatical function. If you can't believe it, have someone say a sentence or two with a few random non-words in your native language and try to repeat what he just said verbatim. Chances are you can't.

It's much less likely to miss a new word you run into in a book because it stays right there and won't go away. I think that's one of the biggest reasons why kids' vocabularies explode once they start reading books on their own. Avid readers always beat others when it comes to the size of vocabulary too. Of course, you should be able to get enough amount of vocabulary without reading much. But your progress must be at a significantly slower rate.

The thing is that while kids already have pretty good accents plus native intuition when they start developing their vocabularies through reading, it's not always possible or ideal for learners of foreign languages to wait until they get to that level. But if you start learning new words mainly by reading books when you only have a shaky grasp of pronunciation and stuff, inevitably you'll learn the wrong pronunciations (or heavily accented pronunciations). The outcome is that you can't understand words you already learned because, in your head, you always expect the wrong sounds. And obviously you'll develop a thick foreign accent, which you may not be able to get rid of in your life time if you've learned too many words/phrases the wrong way.

Now you think your listening is good as long as you know the words used. I think this is a very good sign; you've developed your vocabulary properly. Do you know how many allegedly advanced learners complain that they can't hear words they already know? That whining doesn't make any sense because if you can't hear them, it simply means you don't know them. At the very least they don't know the sounds of the words they claim to know. Simply put, they learned those words the wrong way. As a Japanese person who learned the most basic English words in school without hearing their real pronunciations (This is the way pretty much every Japanese student MUST learn English in school; teachers don't understand you if you speak English with a good accent for the exact same reason I just described here.), I can tell from my experience: it's super hard to fix what you learned the wrong way.

You should decide when you start intensive reading yourself. The sooner you start, the more time and effort you'll have to put to re-learn the sounds and reduce your accent. But if you wait until you perfect your pronunciation etc., that means you probably need at least the same amount of time as children spent to achieve basic fluency with limited vocabularies. Most likely the sweet spot is somewhere between the two extremes for most people. Maybe it's a good idea to gradually increase the amount of reading and SRSing words from no-sound materials.

Oh, and I don't think a person who has learned a foreign language only for a year can possibly understand everything from your average daily conversation to more serious discussions about the UN and stuff.
Edited: 2010-08-30, 11:19 pm
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#10
Thank you guys so much for your thoughts and ideas.

First of all, about the 8-hours-a-day thing. I haven't been doing that all the time, especially now that I've turned from sentences to isolated words, but yes, I'm a student. Or even better, a drop-out student, making his living as a musician during the weekends, haha! So there you go, I just went from practising music 7-8 hours a day to do the same thing with language studies. In other words - I did not have any other commitments. So don't feel guilty guys! You're doing great! Smile

About the move - I got a job as a volunteer outside of 大阪市, a small place called 阪南市. I've heard it's 50 minutes from 難波。I'll be working in a church there, mainly working with music and English-classes.

activeaero: Good luck to you as well!! I'd love to stay in Tokyo, I LOVE that place, but since I landed a job outside of Osaka, then... Well, I'm heading for Osaka Big Grin

Magamo: Thank you very much for your long reply. I guess I'll try to read more. My problem is that I don't like reading, even in Norwegian. Everything I learned when it comes to English I learned through Video-games / Forums, so I'll make an effort to do the same, just in Japanese.
On a side-note, do you have any recommendations when it comes to Japanese novels? I don't care about the level, as long as they're good Smile
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#11
If you have a PSP I would suggest you try out 428: 封鎖された渋谷で It's a visual novel so it's nothing but reading, but I have been absolutely addicted to it since I first turned it on.
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#12
Icecream: Haha! I knew it was you, just by reading "hihihi", didn't even have to look at your avatar! Big Grin Thank you! I'll definitely get myself one of those notebooks! =) I'll be waiting for you in Japan, tell me when you get there! Smile

quincy - as a matter of fact, I just ordered a PSP! I'll see if I can snatch a copy of that game as soon as I get to Japan...
Edited: 2010-09-01, 11:09 am
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#13
I live in Kobe, near to Osaka. If you need anything, get scared / lonely, or want to go drink some beer, drop me a line. My email is my username here at pair.com.
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