http://www.ramenfanatic.com/2010/05/31/w...-the-jlpt/

Personally, I don't care too much for the JLPT myself and I am currently a beginner in terms of learning 日本語, but I agree with what this person said. Unless you need it for a job...Just study out of your own interests. Whatever your reasons may have been to start studying the language in the first place:Culture, video games, anime/manga etc. If you do so, you'll be learning more naturally. Not to mention, some of the material for the JLPT may not be used much outside of the test. Meaning, some of the things you're learning is pointless outside of the test. Last, but not least...If you try to cram a bunch of info into yourself for passing the JLPT...You'll pass, but then probably forget the info. As said in the article what happens after you pass a test you studied for?

You accomplished your goal and no longer really care about retaining the information. Since, the main goal was to pass the test. So, you may end up forgetting a lot of info once the test was over. Either way, I respect anyone who is studying purely to take the JLPT. Just throwing my two cents on this rather popular subject in the Japanese Language Learning Community. In the end, just study naturally out of your own interests so you'll learn better and have more fun doing so. Then, after maybe a few years or so of studying the language just take the JLPT for fun to see how well you do. Don't make it your life goal to pass the test unless you really need it for a career in Japan. Overall, would be interested to hear others opinions regarding this.

I wonder if your opinion of the JLPT will change as you advance in your studies and see how certifications are treated in Japan. Mine certainly did.

Well, to throw a counter point in: my japanese wouldn't be nearly where it is now if i weren't aiming to pass the JLPT2 at the end of the year.

He seems to repeatedly try to make the point that studying for the JLPT means cramming, which means you're going to forget everything. He mentions SRS but then seems to be under the impression that it and JLPT preparation are mutually exclusive. I'm not cramming. Having the JLPT as a goal just gives you a defined amount of japanese to learn, all nicely laid out in front of you (there are excellent textbooks and other resources targeted at the JLPT). And at the end of it, you can sit a test to check whether you actually learned it or not (this part is optional).

Some people can't stand tests, can't stand study, and if its not "fun", they won't do it. I've noticed these people often seem to think everyone is like them. Well, i'm not. I like doing tests to confirm i've learned what i've set out to learn. I like definite goals with fixed deadlines. If i set out to learn japanese aimlessly, i would do far less than i do now. The idea of trying to learn Japanese by watching thousands of hours of anime and dramas that i don't understand just really doesn't sound that fun to me. Sure, i watch anime and dramas, but nearly all my actual progress (other than just reinforcement) is coming from my JLPT-oriented study.

Also, i'm not sure about the N1, but there is very little N2 material that is not very common japanese. I encounter the stuff i'm learning all the time. The people who set the JLPT aren't sadists who pick obscure stuff to fail you on. The levels are fairly neatly divided in terms of frequency and complexity imho. If you work up the levels from N5 to N1, the progression is pretty comfortable (N2 will be the first official test i actually sit though, assuming my application went through).

zigmonty Wrote:If i set out to learn japanese aimlessly, i would do far less than i do now.

This.
I think this is one of the reasons I have such a hard time actually doing anything these days. It's this whole idea of "if it's not fun, don't do it." Well -- I end up not doing anything.
Watching TV, talking to people, music etc, etc...I do that as part of my life, I don't pretend I'm "studying" when I do it.

It depends on your goals in studying Japanese. Should you care about the JLPT? Do you want to be able to watch anime, drama, listen to music, talk to people? Forget about the JLPT -- it wasn't made for you. Do you plan on living in Japan for any extended period of time? Do you want to get a job in Japan that's not teaching English? Then take it. You'll need it.

The stuff you study (cram) for the JLPT will continue to sink in way after the exam as it crops up in the books you read, dramas you watch etc.

The other benefit is having to study the stuff I find difficult. Obviously it's best to focus on the stuff you enjoy but you have to study the hard stuff sooner or later and the exam kinda forces this.

If a job requires JLPT1 and someone manages to pass it through cramming while still having beginner level speaking, then something tells me they're not going to pass the first interview.

For that reason, I can't imagine anyone focusing on the JLPT while neglecting overall ability in order to get a job.

Yes, my JLPT certification is useless even at 1 kyuu. But it did provide for me a methodical way to learn a large body of vocab and grammar.

Will paying for this $40~$50 test somehow earn you that much and more back in the future? If the answer is yes, then you have a test to go take.

Is it worth it to take it just to prove it to yourself? If you don't mind spilling $50, I guess go for it.
But really, you can just study for it at home during a set amount of time, and then take a bunch of practice tests at home until you reach a score you're satisfied with.

The test is a nice way to gauge what you're strong and what you need work on, but to pay for this test and take it.. you have to look at it like an investment.

The writer of this article seems to be quite the narcissist and perhaps that's why he feels he's in a position to give heavy-handed advice about a topic he knows nothing about. Not to mention that the last sentence of the article probably should have come at the beginning because throughout, the article is making a vast number of condescending assumptions about the reader.

I don't think this article is worth a whole lot of pondering.

Problems with this article

-Somehow the author automatically assumes that everything the test-taker knows for the test will be just information stored in short-term memory. The author also fails to realize that many people are using SRS, the very thing he’s advocating, as a major part of their JLPT studies.

-The author thinks that if you truly know something, you will know it until you die even if you no longer use that knowledge.

-Fails to draw a connection between restudying and what SRS does.

-Fails to ask why it is that people forget things after tests in high school, and how it could be different with self-motivated or ongoing study.

-Fails to notice ways in which studying for the JLPT can help you achieve Japanese goals that are unrelated to getting a job.

-The author assumes that because tests cannot measure ability with 100% accuracy, they are therefore completely useless at measuring ability.

-The author doesn’t really even know enough Japanese (he implies that he’s still far from N3) to be able to determine how useful the JLPT is, and what is tested on it. At this point, I’m sure if he looked at an N2 or N1 test, it’d be just as meaningful to him as if it were Chinese (assuming he hasn’t studied Chinese). How can he personally assess the JLPT’s usefulness in measuring ability, and in testing structures one will in encounter in actual Japanese, without being able to read or understand them at all?

Quote:many people are using SRS

I highly doubt that even a quarter of the JLPT crowd is using SRS.
Especially us Korean and Chinese test takers -- we cram for this stuff and pass.
There's a whole business of cram centers, lecture halls, and armies of private tutors who guarantee passing grades so that people can get that bachelor degree/career job/move on with their lives.

Yea, definitely a lot of flawed points. 9 months of intensive study for level 2 raised my Japanese from lost puppy status to able to communicate with other human beings. That is merit in and of itself.

It's already been said but just because you crammed things it doesn't mean they are useless. You forget a lot of things after an exam at school because you never use them again. If you keep encountering them in the real life, they will go into long term memory. All the things you memorize are at first in short term memory, so cramming per se isn't a bad thing. What he is saying is true if, and only if, things in JLPT aren't something you use in real life. To find out, I took a look at the JLPT 1 sample test on their web site, and I thought, while the quality of a couple of questions weren't very good, these questions asked pretty basic things which an adult would sure encounter in real-life situations in Japan. Some of the grammar points and vocabulary may not be used in conversations very much, and it seems to be giving more weight to reading comprehension, so if your target is more toward speaking naturally, it may not be a thing for you. But I don't see anything wrong with studying for it. I have to admit though. Passing without studying sounds more cool.

Gotta say, lots of good responses here. A lot of people made several good points and it really changed my view of the JLPT.

I might take JLPT this winter or summer but haven't decided when though...
I've done a few of those practice tests, there pretty good. Not hard at all, just requires to review a lot of the tests(past). Learn vocab,grammar,etc.

I've found that once you reach a certain level, JLPT becomes not as hard as it was made out to be. It's pretty easy once you've reached a certain level, but like any test. It requires studying/time to accomplish.

masaman Wrote:Passing without studying sounds more cool.

I'm pretty sure you could pass 1級 without studying

ta12121 Wrote:I might take JLPT this winter or summer but haven't decided when though...
I've done a few of those practice tests, there pretty good. Not hard at all, just requires to review a lot of the tests(past). Learn vocab,grammar,etc.

I've found that once you reach a certain level, JLPT becomes not as hard as it was made out to be. It's pretty easy once you've reached a certain level, but like any test. It requires studying/time to accomplish.

When was the JLPT made out to be hard? Natives would get a perfect score or at least extremely close to one. Can you pass it if you have never studied Japanese? Well, of course not. All tests are easy once you know the material being tested. I remember when the N5 was hard.

Quote:When was the JLPT made out to be hard? Natives would get a perfect score or at least extremely close to one. Can you pass it if you have never studied Japanese? Well, of course not. All tests are easy once you know the material being tested. I remember when the N5 was hard.

From the base of the mountain, the first peak looks high.

The general opinion among those who haven't reached JLPT1 is that it's a very difficult, impressive achievement. Of course, almost everyone who has reached that level ceases to feel that way within about a year.

zigmonty Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:I might take JLPT this winter or summer but haven't decided when though...
I've done a few of those practice tests, there pretty good. Not hard at all, just requires to review a lot of the tests(past). Learn vocab,grammar,etc.

I've found that once you reach a certain level, JLPT becomes not as hard as it was made out to be. It's pretty easy once you've reached a certain level, but like any test. It requires studying/time to accomplish.

When was the JLPT made out to be hard? Natives would get a perfect score or at least extremely close to one. Can you pass it if you have never studied Japanese? Well, of course not. All tests are easy once you know the material being tested. I remember when the N5 was hard.

it isn't hard, but it is in the beginning for when one starts learning Japanese, it is