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MIT OpenCourseWare

#1
I found a nice link perusing around reddit today.

http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm

MIT offers a wealth of information about various courses with free material online to learn from. There's even some decent Japanese audio out there in the advanced Japanese courses.
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#2
Has anyone ever used the text that seems to be pretty popular at universities (I've seen it at two now): Japanese the Spoken Language?

I am having trouble finding much faith in the MIT course because the 4th semester is like "in this class we will learn 80 kanji"... fo' real? Oh well. I guess there is balance to be had. I can wrote 2000+ kanji but... can't really speak for shit.
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#3
kodorakun Wrote:Has anyone ever used the text that seems to be pretty popular at universities (I've seen it at two now): Japanese the Spoken Language?

I am having trouble finding much faith in the MIT course because the 4th semester is like "in this class we will learn 80 kanji"... fo' real? Oh well. I guess there is balance to be had. I can wrote 2000+ kanji but... can't really speak for shit.
I used Japanese: the Spoken Language for two and a half years in college, and I give it the top place on my list of favorite learning materials. I've finished RTK, and use Anki and all that stuff, but it hasn't done nearly as much for my Japanese as JSL. It's easily the best textbook on the market, and it really is extremely good at teaching the active use of Japanese.

However, it is based on speaking so writing goes along really slowly. This is pretty intentional, and it was the author's belief that you should have communicative competence before you start learning to read or write in a language. Thus, really seriously learning to read and write the language comes only after you can already speak it well. That's why in the fourth semester you would only learn an additional 80 kanji.

Incidentally, I wouldn't really recommend buying the book unless you're really interested in learning grammar. Without a teacher trained specifically to use the book, it can be very hard to use (how can you really practice speaking by yourself anyway?). Also, RTKers will be frustrated by the romaji. It does, however, have the best grammar explanations I've ever seen (even moreso than the Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar, which I own two of).
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#4
kodorakun Wrote:Has anyone ever used the text that seems to be pretty popular at universities (I've seen it at two now): Japanese the Spoken Language?

I am having trouble finding much faith in the MIT course because the 4th semester is like "in this class we will learn 80 kanji"... fo' real? Oh well. I guess there is balance to be had. I can wrote 2000+ kanji but... can't really speak for shit.
I would avoid it. I had a teacher that used it, but she converted all the lessons to hiragana since it uses a crazy version of romaji that makes no sense to the untrained.
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#5
I've met a few kids through my exchange program who learned through JSL. I've heard that unless you have a good teacher, then JSL will be really tough to use. You need to speak to increase your speaking skills, and if you're just doing self study, it's going to be tough to hold a conversation.

Ironically, I never actually heard these students speak a lot of Japanese, with two exceptions. One was 3 years into study and had a terrible accent and it seemed limited vocab, but grammar was good. The other was something like 4-5 years in and he was fantastic -- but did an incredible amount of work on his own as well.
One other person I heard just a few times -- he could speak pretty well as long as it was in a polite, almost to the point of keigo, way of speaking.
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#6
brianobush Wrote:It uses a crazy version of romaji that makes no sense to the untrained.
This is a bit mis-leading--it basically uses the same romaji as most Japanese people use when they type. Based on that fact alone, I find it weird to call it crazy. The romaji used in the book is not made to line up with English, but rather made to line up with how the kana are written. You're supposed to learn the conversations and such in the book through listening to the CD, not by looking at the romaji.

As for your comments Asriel, I recognize the reasons for some of what you mention. For example, I would expect anyone who did JSL to be better at grammar than vocabulary. The author's idea was that the easiest thing to pick up in the Japanese language once you're in Japan is vocabulary, whereas grammar and such is harder to pick up. Therefore the book doesn't introduce as much vocabulary as many textbooks (when I studied abroad in Japan we did Genki 2. I had just finished JSL 1, and I had to learn a ton of new vocabulary quickly to save myself from confusion--there's so much more vocab in Genki).

However, I find the Keigo comments strange. JSL introduces some keigo way before most books (maybe chapter 7 of the first book), but it also introduces casual Japanese faster than most textbooks (certainly a lot earlier than Genki). Also, one good think about JSL is that dialogues between friends are actually done in very casual Japanese, whereas dialogues between business people are done in more polite Japanese. One frustrating part about reading dialogues in Genki was that in early chapters friends talk using です and ます (which is completely ridiculous), and always in a really unnatural way (the way that English textbooks sound in Japan).

The person with the bad accent is suprising however, since usually that's stressed a lot by users of that textbook.

Note that maybe I'm a bit biased because I had really good teachers. The woman who wrote the textbook (Jorden) taught it at Cornell for many years, and when she stopped my professor taught it there for a long time. After that he switched to my college, and I learned under him and a lovely Japanese woman. He was good friends with Jorden and often kept in touch with her about teaching the textbook and so on. I also met her through my professor a couple of years before she died; she was a very charimastic old woman!
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#7
I like JSL and got my start learning Japanese with this series. I think that I may have found it daunting for self teaching if I had tried to go that way, but with a teacher it was great. There is a whole series of audio and videos to go with the books and these are now freely available at:

http://languagelab.it.ohio-state.edu/index.php?id=1672
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#8
The guy with the accent -- I am somewhat under the impression that he just didn't care, as he went home about 3 months before the program was over so he could play Street Fighter with his friends at home during Summer Vacation...
Regardless, he was one of the very few JSL learners I heard speak on a semi-regular basis.

I also thought the keigo thing was strange. I only talked with this guy in Japanese a few times. One time he was drunk and he kept using 拙者 instead of any socially acceptable first-person pronoun. I think it's more that he, as opposed to JSL, was kind of a tool.

But again, I think it all comes down to having a good teacher. I've heard this from multiple people, and seen some of the results. Unfortunately, I can't comment on it much more than that.... :/
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#9
This can go in Learning Resources. Moved topic.
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#10
kodorakun Wrote:Has anyone ever used the text that seems to be pretty popular at universities (I've seen it at two now): Japanese the Spoken Language?

I am having trouble finding much faith in the MIT course because the 4th semester is like "in this class we will learn 80 kanji"... fo' real? Oh well. I guess there is balance to be had. I can wrote 2000+ kanji but... can't really speak for shit.
People either love it or hate it.
The only good point of it for me was the in-depth grammar notes.
They reminded me of Niwasaburoo's guide a bit, only in English.
Most of each chapter is devoted to grammar notes and drills.
Even though the grammar notes were useful to me sometimes, oftentimes they'd just seem too technical and verbose (the writer was a linguistics professor and it shows) and even when they were useful, I found that most of the time I had already picked up the meanings of the grammar point a lot less painfully through AJATT.
The romanization definitely had a negative effect on my classmates pronunciation (I won't even go into reading ability), but maybe my teacher didn't know how to teach it (I can imagine a book like that having a huge learning curve for teaching it), anyway, check out the reviews on Amazon.com and if you can, browse through a copy to see if it's for you or not.
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