[I've Googled this and got no real response - between people slagging off the JFBP series as a whole and promoting Minna and Genki, I'm at a loss!]

I'm close to finishing JFBP3 (up to the last unit), and after a little break I'd like to go back to textbooks. They just seem to work the best for me.

The problem is, there's no JFBP4, and so I can't see any clear progression from here. From what I hear, JFBP3 gets you up to a sort of N4 level, perhaps beginning to edge towards N3, so would one of the new N3 prep books be good? I've also heard positive remarks about Minna no Nihongo Chuukyuu, but nothing more detailed.

I also have one of the books of the "Read Real Japanese" series, and it seems possible, but still a little advanced. Is it worth ploughing through, or should I improve my Japanese first?

Any thoughts or ideas would be very much appreciated

The "Read Real Japanese" will be accessible with the translations and grammar explanations, and may be good to give you some exposure to authentic written Japanese. But if the grammar and vocabulary seems to difficult, and you're dependent upon the explanations etc. in the book, then I suggest stopping and picking it back up again after you've advanced more.

If you've finished beginner Japanese, then my personal suggestion is the Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese series, which is more or less a sequel to Genki, though geared towards college students and is far more serious in tone. Not a lot of detail is provided for the grammar in the textbooks, as they're meant to be used in college classes with teachers providing those details, so it's best combined with the Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar. The Basic and Intermediate dictionary more than cover the material.

Xero Xenith Wrote:[I've Googled this and got no real response - between people slagging off the JFBP series as a whole and promoting Minna and Genki, I'm at a loss!]

I'm close to finishing JFBP3 (up to the last unit), and after a little break I'd like to go back to textbooks. They just seem to work the best for me.

I did the JFBP1~3, including the workbooks and CDs. Certainly not a waste of time. It does give you a basic grounding and I don't think you've wasted your time doing them. My Japanese teacher recommended 'Japanese for Everyone' published by Gakken. I really liked it. It covered the same ground as the JFBP series but all in the one book (making it quicker and cheaper) and I found some of the grammar explanations clearer than JFBP. However, JFBP gave me a lot more practice in the form of drills. Since it covers similar ground to JFBP you might not gain a lot from doing 'Japanese for Everyone' - although it would certainly reinforce the basics.

Since JFBP series has provided you with a good start, after RTK, you probably have enough to continue progress through input (reading, films, radio, TV etc.) and refer to something like 'A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar' or 'A Dictionary of Intermediate Grammar' whenever you run into things you don't understand. I use them and many others recommend them. They do use a lot of grammar jargon but you just need to read the numerous example sentences they give if you get stuck. The advantage of the grammar dictionary over an actual course book is it's easier to look up grammar points. With JFBP and 'Japanese for Everyone' I sometimes found it difficult to find stuff again.

Xero Xenith Wrote:I also have one of the books of the "Read Real Japanese" series, and it seems possible, but still a little advanced. Is it worth ploughing through, or should I improve my Japanese first?

I have two of the Read Real Japanese series (Essays and Fiction). My advice here is similar to Aijin's. I worked through the Fiction one before I discovered RTK and RevTK. Despite the explanatory notes I found it really hard going which made it rather tedious. IMO it's better to tackle RTK before tackling 'Read Real Japanese'.

I'm only familiar with self study methods after the N4 level (old JLPT3). So, definitely follow Aijin's advice as she teaches higher levels than that.

For self study route, using the DO(A, I, B)JG reference books along with the Kanzen Master books and a good vocabulary list for the N3 and N2 levels can subsidize your learning.

Don't know if you are in Japan but if you are, Kumon has a program called Japanese for English speakers. It is directed at reading ability but the idea is that this enhances speaking ability (this is also the rationale behind the Oxford Bookworms Series of ESL readers). Following completion of this program, they recommend their Kokugo program (the program geared toward native speakers who want to learn/review the kanji learned in the first 6 grades) and then their advanced course, which teaches and drills the remaining general use kanji.

Kumon Japanese is also available in Australia.

Before doing anything, however, I think it would be wise to complete RTK. No matter what method you use--textbooks, Kumon, readers, etc--the sticking point will be kanji. If you've completed RTK, you can treat new characters as vocabulary items without having to learn at the same time how to write them.

I had a similar question myself. Does anyone know how the Tobira textbook (http://www.tobira.9640.jp/xoops/) would compare to An Integrated Course in Intermediate Japanese, as a follow-on for JFBP3? I don't really know what level it is at.

Thanks very much for your replies! I've now heard a lot of great things about the Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar, so I think they're a worthwhile investment. Amazon Basket addition #1!

Would it be at all reasonable to work simply from the Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar with grammar lists for JLPT (for grammar) and core6k for vocabulary?

Xero Xenith Wrote:Thanks very much for your replies! I've now heard a lot of great things about the Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar, so I think they're a worthwhile investment. Amazon Basket addition #1!

Would it be at all reasonable to work simply from the Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar with grammar lists for JLPT (for grammar) and core6k for vocabulary?

I think its possible but make sure you have some native material to work on thats comfortable enough for you. I've yet to find something like that besides KM grammar books that use only vocab from their appropriate level, but I suck and your experience might be different.

Those Dictionaries are golden and a must have for anyone seriously learning Japanese.

It's certainly possible; the dictionaries will cover the grammar points in more depth, and with more example sentences than any textbook. However, for a lot of people it can be difficult to learn that way, since the grammar dictionaries are meant to act as a reference and for further development of the grammar one is already learning, rather than as a resource to learn it from. The reason for that is simply that textbooks teach grammar through using exercises, examples in dialogues and audio, and giving assignments and worksheets for the student to do with that grammar, so that they themselves have to create dozens of sentences etc. with that grammar. Which in turn trains them how to use it.

If you supplemented your own exercises, you could certainly learn straight from the grammar books though. For example, for each grammar point you study, write a paragraph speech, or story, or dialogue that uses that grammar, as well as ten example sentences for the grammar point.

As long as you have the time and motivation to create your own material and test yourself, then it'll work fine a lot of people would rather just do assignments already prepared for them though, which is the advantage of textbooks and their accompanying workbooks.

JFBP series was pretty bad imo. After finishing it I went over both Genki books and the Japanese For Everyone textbook (which was definitely the best out of all three).

I bought that Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese and didn't like it one bit. To be honest, I don't think intermediate learners even need a structured textbook. If you've got a good grasp on the basics why not move on to just mining various sources? You can use the Dictionaries of Basic/Int/Adv Grammar or the ASK dict or JLPT prep materials to find examples and explanations on more advanced grammar.

slivir Wrote:JFBP series was pretty bad imo. After finishing it I went over both Genki books and the Japanese For Everyone textbook (which was definitely the best out of all three).

I bought that Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese and didn't like it one bit.

If you've used JFBP3 and also some of Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese, I'd still like to get more information from you. I actually enjoy the JFBP books. I read through the grammar, but beyond that don't use them for a lot more than listening practice. Some of the dialogues may be a bit too business orientated for me but a lot of them are interesting or even funny, and all of them, since they teach me stuff I didn't know before, seem useful. I also like the fact that they speak quite quickly.
Anyway, I am happy to continue using my vocabulary deck and grammar deck, which so far have been shadowing my progress through the textbooks. But I want to continue with more dialogue type material after JFBP3 is finished, and it seems so much easier to get it pre-packaged by textbook authors than to spend time assembling it myself. Having explanatory notes is a help also. I like the way the dialogues progress so I am not grappling with anything too difficult nor wasting time on anything really easy that goes over old material endlessly.
So all I really want to know is - is the level of Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese a good follow-on for JFBP3 (I gather from previous posts, it probably it is), and what sort of listening practice does it have and how much of it is there. If there any other books with lots of recorded listening material at a suitable level, I would also be very interested to know. Thanks for any information.

Each chapter of Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese has 3 dialogues, one reading piece, and one listening comprehension piece. In total it's 79 clips, 2 hours and 19 minutes. If you enjoy textbook audio, I suggest listening to the Genki CDs too, even if you won't use the textbooks, as they're fairly amusing and should be good for your level.

Aijin - thanks for the reply. I think I'll use IATIJ, though I'm wondering about trying the Tobira book, too. If it's too difficult I could always leave it till later I suppose.