Hello fellow RTK'ers

I'm new. Just got through the first 100 (working at about 20 a day)

So here is the deal - I look at the keyword and I almost NEVER remember the story. I would say about 95% of the time.

I either remember the kanji first, and try to rebuild the story based on the kanji components I can already picture in my head

OR

I don't remember either the kanji or the story - then I look up the story and usually I can then write the kanji.

So my question, is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
...needless to say I'd rather know now after a 100 down rather than finding out 3000 kanji later.

Thanks for the input!

[ファブリス]

Welcome Sgt.Pepper!

Try to visualize the stories in your "mind's eye". Reading a story is not sufficient. Memorizing the story itself is also not at all the technique. If the story involves three suns for example, then see that in your mind. Close your eyes if it can help you focus. Don't worry if it's vague or if you believe you don't have a good imagination and so on. Everyone has imagination. If we didn't, we wouldn't salivate at the thought of evening's restaurant, or the next holiday. As you progress visualization becomes stronger. It doesn't mean hallucinating Just bringing the scene to your mind's eye. Try to spend a good minute per kanji like this and see if that helps. AAll the while that you imagine the scene, try to see in it the relation ship with the keyword, as if you're making a movie about the keyword, try to focus on its meaning as it is "encoded" in the story.

Well, I'd say to stop learning new kanji for a while. You want to focus on the 100 you already have and try to remember your story for each one. Again, make the story something that's memorable so that you can easily remember it just by looking at the key word. You want to get your technique down so that you won't have this problem as you learn more kanji.

However, at some point, you should forget the story. It shows a certain mastery over the kanji: you've basically connected the keyword to the kanji, and the story is unnecessary now. If you remember the kanji, I'd say pass it. Don't try to rebuild the story, as that's counter intuitive. You always want to go keyword -> story -> kanji, and for the easier kanji or the kanji you know really well, keyword -> kanji.

smartazjb0y Wrote:Don't try to rebuild the story, as that's counter intuitive. You always want to go keyword -> story -> kanji, and for the easier kanji or the kanji you know really well, keyword -> kanji.

Thanks that's very good advice.

I'm up to 110 now. Do you both think I should just STOP adding new cards and work on easily passing the first 110 before moving on? That is being able to easily go keyword -> story -> kanji OR keword -> kanji (for the ones I can link like that already).

I'm not sure I'd stop new cards altogether, but maybe slow them to just a trickle. It's nice to see a couple new ones a day to keep your interest up.

But yes, above all you do need to focus on visualizing the stories. As ファブリス says, picture the image in your mind's eye.

You don't need a 100% recall rate; 75-80% was typical for me at that stage.

As ファブリス detailed in his post, that's the technique you should eventually be using. I'd say stop learning until you feel comfortable with that technique, and when you think you have it down, try learning some new kanji. For each and every kanji you learn, try to get that technique down. It might take longer, and you might learn fewer kanji a day, but in the long run, you spend less time failing kanji if you just spend the extra few minutes to try and get the story and technique down. ファブリス detailed it very well in that post.

Following on to what ファブリス put very well,

That visual memory becomes much, much more important as you build up kanji and primitives. Right now, you're using very few primitives. When that number builds up to 300, then a visual image/movie helps keep it straight what goes where. As such, think about using famous (fictional or real) people/characters/locations to represent your primitives to further help. I think it's even more important for abstract primitives.

What also helps is let that KEYWORD be the first word in your story. That helps excite the story in the mind.

I also seem to be having this problem. I'm a couple days in, and I'm up to about 100 kanji. I can recall the first 50-60 fine, but after that I've been struggling to attach the stories to the kanji. Only really memorable stories work reliably, and I can't always remember the others.

Then again, I have a good recall rate (95%+), so maybe I should stop worrying. I think this method is just so simple it feels like I haven't learned much.

Also, how soon should I be reviewing cards after making them?

95% is a godly retention rate.

smartazjb0y Wrote:95% is a godly retention rate.

damn that's good. keep it up.

I have a similar problem. I'm up to about 126 kanji and I can only remember about half the kanji from keywords. In other words, only half the time does the keyword spark the story that I should be remembering/made up. I'm a little worried to go further if my retention rate is only ~52%. Is there something obvious I'm missing out on?

Edit: That 52% is based off the 65 I did today.

The more you keep reviewing the same failed cards the better you'll remember it. But as others said try visualizing the story and if its hard for you for some it may be due to a weak story.

Yes, but sometimes I just can't visualize the story because I can't always remember it from the keyword.

I don't know if it's "wrong" or "bad for learning," but maybe try learning just the keyword and story together, without the kanji. At first I did that: I printed out a sheet listing just the keyword and the story. I didn't study it intensively, but I would look it over and try to connect the keyword and story, without even looking at the kanji. It worked for me, because I broke it down into smaller steps: instead of learning keyword -> story -> kanji in one sitting, if I needed to, I could do keyword -> story, then when I get that down, focus on keyword -> story -> kanji or maybe keyword -> kanji. I don't do that anymore, since my technique is good, but maybe for you, processing less information in a given time will help you with remembering the story.

ZeroKiller Wrote:Yes, but sometimes I just can't visualize the story because I can't always remember it from the keyword.

The most important time to 'visualize' the story is when you just learn the new kanji. Take a fair amount of time to visualize it in than, and it will stick a lot better.

And make sure that when you do remember the kanji from the keyword, to also go over the story in your head as well, until you don't need to anymore (and you need to have a loooot of reviews down your belt for that).

[ファブリス]

Not to rain on your parade guys, but a high retention rate for the first 100 kanji is rather common. Those are the easiest kanji, and your short term memory is what gives very good results.

This isn't to discourage you. Till the very last kanji in RTK it's important to notice what stick and what doesn't.

For stories in general also keep in mind to always check your OWN imagination for associations with the keyword FIRST before you look at people's stories in the Study pages. THEN if you find something along the lines of what you had in mind, either copy it straight, or make a "mash up".

sgt.pepper Wrote:Hello fellow RTK'ers

I'm new. Just got through the first 100 (working at about 20 a day)

So here is the deal - I look at the keyword and I almost NEVER remember the story. I would say about 95% of the time.

Your're too young. Imaginative memory only starts to really develop after you are 14 or something. I'd suggest to wait a little, then give it another go

Thanks for all the replies guys. After realizing how much of a noob I was and that I didn't quite understand imaginative memory (but now I think I do) and after doing 36 today, I got about 74% retention, which is good on my terms. 172 down, 1870 more to go. By the way, how the heck do you guys have the mental capacity to do so many every day. I have feeling I'm going to burn out sometime halfway through.

I didn't do very many a day. Especially in the beginning I only did up to 25 a day and that was during my holidays. It wasn't until I was more into the system that I was able to do more a day, but only on weekends; whenever I was working I couldn't do more than 10 or so. Stick to what feels good for you and what gives you good retention rates. If you start learning new stuff without having the old stuff down, it will make you remember both things less.