I love to hear stories of Japanese people being amazed at post-RTK kanji skillz. I think it would be neat to collect your anecdotes in a thread here, as I've seen a few but they are spread all over, and I'm sure you have a lot more...

I have really surprised people just by being able to write relatively straightforward things off-the-cuff, like 塾、務、撃... not to mention good old 鬱...

Shamefully, nowadays I rely on Google to spell most non-everyday words. I can no longer remember what words get two rs or two ls, like the word "dilemma"

Dillema? Dilema? Dillemma? lol what do I know??

I suppose I would be impressed too if I met a Japanese person who could spell words befitting a spelling bee.

edit: rewritten so people don't think i'm an dick who picks on japanese people smarter than me.

完璧 is written with 玉 on the bottom, but when writing it, everyone writes it 壁, which has 土 on the bottom.

I was surprised when I found out. So are the few Japanese people that I have mentioned this to during completely innocent conversations about language learning and which kanji are difficult.

10 out of 10 Japanese people would be amazed even if you wrote "tree" or "sun".

Evil_Dragon Wrote:10 out of 10 Japanese people would be amazed even if you wrote "tree" or "sun".

good lord....

they are quite easily surprised/amazed etc.. My teachers always say that I know more kanji than they do... that's just cuz they learned it all in grade school! (and don't have need to write them by hand outside of class)

Evil_Dragon Wrote:10 out of 10 Japanese people would be amazed even if you wrote "tree" or "sun".

aah, the kanji that impressed me when I was 6 years old, wondering how you could have an entire writing system based on these awesome pictures. 日、木、人...good times

Asriel Wrote:Next time you talk to a Japanese person, ask them to write the kanji for かんぺき. Most will be like "ok whatever" and write　完壁. Then, go and write 完璧. You're correct, and they are wrong. Use a dictionary to show them.

The bottom is 玉, but most will write 土.

I caught onto this because i read something handwritten, and then it came on TV at the same time. Although it might not be "most" Japanese people, but it's been most Japanese people that I've asked.

Unless you ask someone who's played Persona 4. How do you think I remember? RtK? Hell no! It was getting it wrong in P4 and having the teacher tell me that no, I was a uneducated moron with slow-wit parents who probably wrote it wrong too. Well, ok, he wasn't that mean but I always remembered after that.

ta12121 Wrote:

Evil_Dragon Wrote:10 out of 10 Japanese people would be amazed even if you wrote "tree" or "sun".

good lord....

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

I don't have contact with any Japanese people in my area (unless I count myself I suppose), so I unfortunately won't be able to see any amazed reactions face-to-face, but now that you mention it, perhaps I can at least start corresponding via email with some Japanese and amaze them by cutting and pasting really obscure Kanji that had last been used by some guy in China writing on a fortune telling bone 5000 years ago.

I will preface my email with a request that they turn on their webcams before proceeding, so that reaction shots of their jaws dropping and exclamations of whatever "WTF!" translates to in nihongo can be captured and posted on YouTube.

JimmySeal Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:

Evil_Dragon Wrote:10 out of 10 Japanese people would be amazed even if you wrote "tree" or "sun".

good lord....

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

I believe it. Japanese people will be amazed if you can write kana let alone some basic kanji. I'm getting a bit tired of it actually.

slivir Wrote:I believe it. Japanese people will be amazed if you can write kana let alone some basic kanji. I'm getting a bit tired of it actually.

If you believe a statement that takes the form "10 out of 10 _________ people _______," then I feel sorry for you. I hope you don't hurt yourself tying your shoes in the morning.

When they stop praising you(out of politeness) and start criticizing your japanese and treating you like any other person in japan. Then you'll know that you've gotten far.

JimmySeal Wrote:

slivir Wrote:I believe it. Japanese people will be amazed if you can write kana let alone some basic kanji. I'm getting a bit tired of it actually.

If you believe a statement that takes the form "10 out of 10 _________ people _______," then I feel sorry for you. I hope you don't hurt yourself tying your shoes in the morning.

Don't get so pedantic over semantics. Your hair will fall out.

It sounds like you guys all can write more Kanji than I do and I'm a native Japanese speaker with a bachelor's degree and had all my education in Japanese. Damn computers. Damn.

Incidentally, it is also my dream that I will get to amaze people with my 133t kanji skillz some time after I've completed RTK 1.

I'd like to actually visit Japan, and hopefully bring back stories of how I amazed people there! (And as all my relatives are in Japan, I should technically be doing a 墓参り anyway, as I am regularly reminded by them.)

masaman Wrote:It sounds like you guys all can write more Kanji than I do and I'm a native Japanese speaker with a bachelor's degree and had all my education in Japanese. Damn computers. Damn.

Thats the difference, most of them are still in school and actually consider handwriting as a useful skill since they use it in class.
I haven't written anything longer than 2-3 sentences in my native language since graduating and those times I do it looks so awful there are 5yo that put me to shame. But I don't plan on taking calligraphy class just so I can scribble a sentence here and there...

Let's see. When I moved I had to fill out some applications to get my address amended on my drivers license and gaijin ID card. Both times I got(in Japanese) "Wow! You can write kanji!".

Everytime I get a new card for a new karaoke place I get the same reaction. My first reaction was "Dear God, everyone has to write their address to get anything in Japan, who wouldn't know?"

But then I forgot how special Japan is and that 99% of white foreigners can't write kanji at all

Edit: I say white foreigners because besides me being white, they are the most I've personally encountered.

Amaze them even more by showing some modesty, don't just show it, genuinely *have* it.
Because knowing that 完璧 doesn't have 土 or writing stuff they can't write will only impress them for about 5.4 seconds. I usually tell them a funny story or two of mine but that's about it, I don't delve into it, unless I see that they're genuinely interested, (likewise with whatever I know about etymology) cause at most of the time they really won't care. I don't mean to sound cynical or anything but that's how it is.

ocircle Wrote:I suppose I would be impressed too if I met a Japanese person who could spell words befitting a spelling bee.

And writing complicated kanji in isolation is about as useful in real life as a spelling bee.

Now before some overinflated heads explode, remember that they are usually a lot better at reading, including reading a lot of uncommon kanji, guessing the correct reading of unfamiliar kanji, reading the names of places and people and have better penmanship.

It's a useful skill and one that Japanese people can appreciate, but on it's own it's just a parlor trick.

I have a few stories of, though the funniest was an owner of a bar that looked at the kanji I practiced then looked at my grammar sentences (from UBJG at the time) and asked "Why can you do this, and only are able to do that?". Personally, I think she was a bit miffed I corrected her correction of the Kanji I wrote for hair and I turned out to be right.

liosama Wrote:Amaze them even more by showing some modesty, don't just show it, genuinely *have* it.

Anyone foreigner I've met who's at least decently good at Japanese is generally more modest about his Japanese ability than a stereotyped overly-humble Japanese person is about anything.

Besides, they'll only be impressed by your stories if you don't *have* it. Once you do, nobody cares anymore.
I don't mean to sound cynical or anything but that's how it is.

Mushi Wrote:I don't have contact with any Japanese people in my area (unless I count myself I suppose), so I unfortunately won't be able to see any amazed reactions face-to-face, but now that you mention it, perhaps I can at least start corresponding via email with some Japanese and amaze them by cutting and pasting really obscure Kanji that had last been used by some guy in China writing on a fortune telling bone 5000 years ago.

I will preface my email with a request that they turn on their webcams before proceeding, so that reaction shots of their jaws dropping and exclamations of whatever "WTF!" translates to in nihongo can be captured and posted on YouTube.

This sounds like a good idea. Especially since I don't tend to carry a pen and pad around with me for the purpose of baiting people into making mistakes so I can point and laugh at them.

Quote:Anyone foreigner I've met who's at least decently good at Japanese is generally more modest about his Japanese ability than a stereotyped overly-humble Japanese person is about anything.

Are you being serious? The fact that this thread and other similar ones that came up exist is enough reason for me to believe that foreigners are not at all modest of their 'ability'. And so then, why are you and others are posting in a thread about petty, yet well meant comments & appraisals over a supposed language ability, when in effect they're are just respectful of the fact that you, and others have gone to the trouble of learning their language, which is all well and good.
All while you have the audacity to point out a petty mistake in a character that means nothing at all and has absolutely nothing to do with the price of cigars in Cuba, then go HAR HAR ASIAN, YOU ARE WRONG?. So yah, I still see no modesty there. Knowing a bunch of kanji or writing them correctly really doesn't mean shit all in a world where shit matters, get used to it.

If an english learner were to come up to me and point out an incorrect spelling of mine, i'd be like big woop. But if they were to come up and point out an incorrect spelling, then give some etymological background to the word, and discuss in a deep and profound linguistic and historical manner on a topic which a few neurons could be put to good use, then go for it. As I said in my previous post etymoglical knowledge or something along the lines is well and good, but petty things like stroke mistakes, or usless parts in a kanji that retain the same 音読み are simply not, that's how it is.

I don't understand the second part of what you said.

Codexus and Oracle pretty much nailed it anyway.

liosama Wrote:All while you have the audacity to point out a petty mistake in a character that means nothing at all and has absolutely nothing to do with the price of cigars in Cuba, then go HAR HAR ASIAN, YOU ARE WRONG?

Yep, this is exactly what I do. On a daily basis. You pretty much have me summed up. I am such a dull person that the only conversation I can strike up is how people screw up their stroke order.

Actually, a lot of Japanese people I talk to are interested in language learning. My classes are in the "international building," so where else are they going to go for their "language partners?" So naturally, the concept of learning kanji comes up. So of course, everyone has an anecdote or two like this.

liosama Wrote:If an english learner were to come up to me and point out an incorrect spelling of mine, i'd be like big woop. But if they were to come up and point out an incorrect spelling, then give some blah blah irrelevant bullshit

This is actually quite the opposite of what oricle said. Oricle said they would be impressed if someone spelled "appoggiatura" correctly, or even knew what it was. I surely don't know. You, on the other hand, are just like "oh cool, whatever, big woop."

liosama Wrote:I don't understand the second part of what you said.

What I mean is that once you reach a level of proficiency, Japanese people stop being impressed by your Japanese ability. If you can get by in regular life just like everyone else, nobody is going to shit their pants if you can write 憂鬱. It's only when your level of Japanese is at a lower level where they wouldn't expect you to know something like that, that they will be impressed.

If someone came up to me and asked me "Excuse me, where is toilet?" I wouldn't expect them to write a doctoral thesis. However, if I met someone like Aijin on the street, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if she could write more eloquently than myself.

liosama Wrote:Are you being serious? The fact that this thread and other similar ones that came up exist is enough reason for me to believe that foreigners are not at all modest of their 'ability'.

You clearly missed the part where I said "Anyone foreigner I've met who's at least decently good at Japanese..."
It's the exact same as the point above. Once you get past a certain level where things are tailored to you, and you have to survive on your own, it's a very humbling experience. I'm not talking 3 week tourists, I'm talking about people who are here for a decent amount of time, at least a year or so. When you're in a stage where Japanese starts making sense, and you can listen and write and everything is great, of course feels wonderful knowing that you can write 爆発.


tl;dr: I understand knowing unused Japanese is pointless. Sometimes these conversations spring up. The better you get at Japanese, the less people (including yourself) are going to be impressed that you know it (or to what degree).