I come to post this as I have been trying to quit for the last 5 months all unsuccessfully. It just seems soo much harder here as it feels like everyone smokes. I can't go one day without seeing it all the time.

Are there any resources specifically around quitting in Japan? Any groups in Osaka for people that are quitting like a support group?

Yea, it must be much harder in Japan. Not sure about support groups but there are 禁煙外来, doctors specialized in quitting smoking if you have health insurance.

http://www.e-kinen.jp/wcs/search/count.p...A%E5%C9%DC

You can get patches and stuff and they should know all the resources around your area.

I'd love to go to Japan and not be self-conscious about smoking around people. In America it's like "You're a smoker?? You should go kill yourself, you murderer!"

And when they only charge Y300 per packet of cigarettes, it's not exactly encouraging to quit. Not to mention that you are allowed to smoke in nearly all restaurants as well, something I really hate (I don't smoke). My friend wants to quit before we go back home, but the patches and gum are so much more expensive here as well...

Hologen Wrote:I'd love to go to Japan and not be self-conscious about smoking around people. In America it's like "You're a smoker?? You should go kill yourself, you murderer!"

Sounds like a good attitude, smoking sucks

I've heard that in Japan smoking is much more wide-spread than in other developed countries, they also have a higher life expentancy than other developed countries. Conclusion? Smoke. Smoking can't be bad for your health, it's just a media-propaganda. Don't believe it
Besides if you want to blend in a society, you have to make their customs yours. How lame is the situation, when you're sitting with your friends in a restaurant, and everyone smokes, and you say: "Nooo, thanks, I've just quit it". That can't be right...

Hologen Wrote:In America it's like "You're a smoker?? You should go kill yourself, you murderer!"

People should say this when going to fast-food restaurants, eating at Mcdonald's, ect..
Besides, that line is a bit illogical, since who's smoking is aleready killing himself....
Suicide is not murder. It's suicide.

There was some stuff in the Asahi earlier this year about how the government is taking baby
steps towards banning smoking in public places.

The statistics show that there's a definite decrease in the % smoking over the last fifty years, although 39% of men and 12% of women still smoke. (in 昭和40 it was 82%/16%). For comparison, the UK figures for are 25%/20%.

Raschaverak Wrote:I've heard that in Japan smoking is much more wide-spread than in other developed countries, they also have a higher life expentancy than other developed countries. Conclusion? Smoke. Smoking can't be bad for your health, it's just a media-propaganda.

It would be nice if you were joking, but you're obviously not. Correlation does not imply causality, especially with something as complex as life expectancy. "Japan has a long life expectancy and they _________ all the time, so it must be ok for you." Is a common fallacy.

Quote:Besides, that line is a bit illogical, since who's smoking is aleready killing himself....

Apparently you've never heard of second-hand smoke.

JimmySeal Wrote:

Quote:Besides, that line is a bit illogical, since who's smoking is aleready killing himself....

Apparently you've never heard of second-hand smoke.

I think Raschaverak's point there was that there's no point in saying "go kill yourself" to a smoker since they already are. (I agree with you on the rest, though.)

JimmySeal Wrote:

Raschaverak Wrote:I've heard that in Japan smoking is much more wide-spread than in other developed countries, they also have a higher life expentancy than other developed countries. Conclusion? Smoke. Smoking can't be bad for your health, it's just a media-propaganda.

It would be nice if you were joking, but you're obviously not. Correlation does not imply causality, especially with something as complex as life expectancy. "Japan has a long life expectancy and they _________ all the time, so it must be ok for you." Is a common fallacy.

Quote:Besides, that line is a bit illogical, since who's smoking is aleready killing himself....

Apparently you've never heard of second-hand smoke.

To a ceratin extent you're right. Except, that the op is in Japan aleready. If we assume that he wants to blend in as much as possible, this means, doing everything the japanese way, which includes all aspects of life (eating, sleeping, ect.) Now assuming that his body will be able to adapt to this new environment 100%, and let's say he's going to stay there for the rest of his life, then we could assume that his life expectancy would be increasing (getting closer to the average of the current society's he's living in). Now, if this is not the case, then it's genetics, and we could conclude that the japanese have some special genes, which enables them higher life expentancy rates. That can't be changed, no matter how on tries to blend in the culture / society.
But if we assume that's not the case (I mean the genetics), but simply the lifestyle of the japanese grant them this, then 100% following that lifestyle could benefit the op. And this might include smoking.
P.S.: Besides, I've been reading in a lot of posts that in Japan the quality of food is great (this even from people from the USA / England). Could sy elaborate on this? I'm a bit worried, cause if for an american the Japanese food is of higher quality, then what should I think, as sy from Hungary???

pm215 Wrote:

JimmySeal Wrote:

Quote:Besides, that line is a bit illogical, since who's smoking is aleready killing himself....

Apparently you've never heard of second-hand smoke.

I think Raschaverak's point there was that there's no point in saying "go kill yourself" to a smoker since they already are. (I agree with you on the rest, though.)

At last. Finally sy, who can understand my very complicated train of thought

Raschaverak Wrote:that line is a bit illogical, since who's smoking is aleready killing himself....
Suicide is not murder. It's suicide.

I guess I should have said "Go jump off a bridge" to make it less deliberate. But yeah, the "murderer" thing was referring to alleged deaths of second-hand smoke, not the smokers themselves dying.

I don't necessarily agree 100% with Raschaverak, but recent studies support his claims to a certain extent. Apparently, contrary to what we've always been told, smoking helps regenerate brain cells (somehow) and can fight Alzheimers. But you know how those "studies" go.

Not to mention tobacco is considered a sacred medicine in many places. It's called "Mapacho". Shamans use it for their purifying rituals.

Jacf, I need to start by saying that I'm a "hypocrite:" I don't know what it's like to like smoking. What I have to say, I only understand on an intellectual level. What nicotine has taught you, you know on a very intimate physical level.

There's no reason for me to have any credibility. You should read the experiences of people who have quit smoking, like John Polito.

Go grab his e-book:
http://ffnicotine.com/free.html

And then sink some time into his other website:
http://whyquit.com/

Raschaverak Wrote:

Hologen Wrote:In America it's like "You're a smoker?? You should go kill yourself, you murderer!"

People should say this when going to fast-food restaurants, eating at Mcdonald's, ect..
Besides, that line is a bit illogical, since who's smoking is already killing himself....
Suicide is not murder. It's suicide.

Suicide is murder. You are killing a human being. It is actually worse than killing another person, because there is no opportunity to make amends.

bodhisamaya Wrote:

Raschaverak Wrote:

Hologen Wrote:In America it's like "You're a smoker?? You should go kill yourself, you murderer!"

People should say this when going to fast-food restaurants, eating at Mcdonald's, ect..
Besides, that line is a bit illogical, since who's smoking is already killing himself....
Suicide is not murder. It's suicide.

Suicide is murder. You are killing a human being. It is actually worse than killing another person, because there is no opportunity to make amends.

I beg to disagree. Yes, in medical terms suicide is murder. But suicide is not the same as
murdering sy else. Because you can do whatever you want with your life, even throw it away if you want. It's legal. Taking another person's life, is on the other hand (in peaceful times at least) illegal. A completely different category....

Raschaverak Wrote:Besides, I've been reading in a lot of posts that in Japan the quality of food is great (this even from people from the USA / England). Could sy elaborate on this? I'm a bit worried, cause if for an american the Japanese food is of higher quality, then what should I think, as sy from Hungary???

Recently I read in something about Tokyo taking first place from NY as the food capital of the world. So you probably shouldn't worry too much.

Americans have access to quality stuff but it always comes at a price, huge price if you ask me and by the looks of it if you ask them too. Thats why they eat garbage and get fatter faster than the rest of the world, they just can't afford anything better. Meanwhile their government will spew propaganda about obesity being developed/wealthy countries disease, when in fact a regular Joe doesn't have access to any real food at all and he's getting huge on junk food.

thurd Wrote:

Raschaverak Wrote:Besides, I've been reading in a lot of posts that in Japan the quality of food is great (this even from people from the USA / England). Could sy elaborate on this? I'm a bit worried, cause if for an american the Japanese food is of higher quality, then what should I think, as sy from Hungary???

Recently I read in something about Tokyo taking first place from NY as the food capital of the world. So you probably shouldn't worry too much.

Americans have access to quality stuff but it always comes at a price, huge price if you ask me and by the looks of it if you ask them too. Thats why they eat garbage and get fatter faster than the rest of the world, they just can't afford anything better. Meanwhile their government will spew propaganda about obesity being developed/wealthy countries disease, when in fact a regular Joe doesn't have access to any real food at all and he's getting huge on junk food.

Seriously, I can't believe what I'm reading. You've made me now even curiouser. For instance, my diet consits mostly, of chicken, rice, apples, tomatoes, cucumber, and cereals (wheat), and some nuts, and bread and maybe soy milk. Chicken and rice and cereals make the majority of my diet.
Are you saying that in America an average Joe (which I am in Hungary) can't afford these? Because even with my diet, if you don't overeat yourself, you wont get too (if any) fat. In fact, I'm quite lean...
Or could you elaborate on what high quality food means in America? (or in Japan for that matter...)

thurd Wrote:Americans have access to quality stuff but it always comes at a price, huge price if you ask me and by the looks of it if you ask them too. Thats why they eat garbage and get fatter faster than the rest of the world, they just can't afford anything better. Meanwhile their government will spew propaganda about obesity being developed/wealthy countries disease, when in fact a regular Joe doesn't have access to any real food at all and he's getting huge on junk food.

Yeah, no, I'm gonna have to go ahead and call that out as bullshit. Provided you have access to a kitchen, there's pretty much no situation where fast and/or junk food is going to be cheaper than buying ingredients and cooking. The only real selling point is convenience, though that's apparently a fairly important selling point for a lot of people.

Raschaverak Wrote:, Because you can do whatever you want with your life, even throw it away if you want. It's legal.

Actually it IS illegal to kill yourself. It's also illegal to die in certain places in America! Seriously.

Sigh.

People don't smoke because they are suicidal. People smoke because it's a habit, because it makes them feel better, or because it makes them feel like they belong somewhere or to some group. I hope we don't have to discuss this issue anymore. This thread is pretty off topic (not related to rtk's purpose) in the first place. Individual pinions are pointless to state.

Anyway, OP, if you want to quit, wash your clothes, clean your house, and find joy in being a non-smoker. Make rules about smoking, like "only while the sun is up" or "only if no friends are around" or "only outside," "only if I shower right after," etc. Change the brand of cigarettes you're smoking. Avoid activities or places that lead to smoking. Make non-smoking friends. Find something fun to do at a no-smoking place.

Try this site:

http://quitsmoking.about.com/

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_cessation

"Cold turkey" is abrupt cessation of all nicotine use. It is the quitting method used by 80[5] to 90%[6] of long-term successful quitters in some populations. In a large British study of ex-smokers in the 1980s, before the advent of pharmacotherapy, 53% of the ex-smokers said that it was “not at all difficult” to stop, 27% said it was “fairly difficult”, and the remainder found it very difficult.[2] Methods advanced by J. Wayne McFarland and Elman J. Folkenburg (an M.D. and a pastor who wrote their Five Day Plan in about 1959),[7][8] Joel Spitzer and John R. Polito (smoking cessation educators whose work is free at WhyQuit.com)[9] and Allen Carr (who founded Easyway® during the early 1980s)[10] are cold turkey plans.
[edit]

The best method is to just stop smoking.

Eikyu Wrote:"Cold turkey" is abrupt cessation of all nicotine use. It is the quitting method used by 80[5] to 90%[6] of long-term successful quitters in some populations. In a large British study of ex-smokers in the 1980s, before the advent of pharmacotherapy, 53% of the ex-smokers said that it was “not at all difficult” to stop, 27% said it was “fairly difficult”, and the remainder found it very difficult.[2] Methods advanced by J. Wayne McFarland and Elman J. Folkenburg (an M.D. and a pastor who wrote their Five Day Plan in about 1959),[7][8] Joel Spitzer and John R. Polito (smoking cessation educators whose work is free at WhyQuit.com)[9] and Allen Carr (who founded Easyway® during the early 1980s)[10] are cold turkey plans.
[edit]

The best method is to just stop smoking.

I don't follow your logic.

Let's say, we found that in country C there is method M that is used 90% of people who achieved goal G. Does this prove M is an effective method to achieve G? No.

For example, if among all the people living in C who tried to achieve G only 1% succeeded while another country C' where there is another method M' is much more popular has a higher success rate, it suggests that M is less effective than M' as long as the difference in success rate is statistically significant and the difference in culture etc. is negligible.

Simply put, if M is popular in country C and people there fail more often, then you'd think it sucks while if they usually achieve G, you'd think it's an excellent method.

Hence, "It is the quitting method used by 80[5] to 90%[6] of long-term successful quitters in some populations" doesn't suggest that cold turkey is effective at all. If anything, if "some populations" have lower success rates, then it could suggest the otherwise, i.e., the quoted fact is pretty neutral about effectiveness.

I don't follow your logic regarding the next sentence either. They say, "In a large British study of ex-smokers in the 1980s, before the advent of pharmacotherapy, 53% of the ex-smokers said that it was “not at all difficult” to stop, 27% said it was “fairly difficult”, and the remainder found it very difficult." I don't think this suggests cold turkey is effective.

Let's say, 99% of people who used method M and achieved goal G says achieving G is easy. Does this suggest M is an effective method? No.

For example, if 99% of people who used method M, whether they succeeded or failed, say achieving G is difficult, then it is very likely that M is ineffective. What it suggests is that it is rare that people who use M succeed but if you happen to be a very rare person who used M and achieved G, you find it easy.

I think the Wikipedia's cold turkey section is not meant to suggest that cold turkey is effective. Rather it simply states a fact.

Smoking's not so much about nictotine. It's more of an oral fixation. People have their own personal ways to deal with stress and boredom. Different strokes for different folks.

Edit: Since come to Japan, me English get good. Now I've ended up editing a lot of post

Raschaverak Wrote:Seriously, I can't believe what I'm reading. You've made me now even curiouser. For instance, my diet consits mostly, of chicken, rice, apples, tomatoes, cucumber, and cereals (wheat), and some nuts, and bread and maybe soy milk. Chicken and rice and cereals make the majority of my diet.
Are you saying that in America an average Joe (which I am in Hungary) can't afford these? Because even with my diet, if you don't overeat yourself, you wont get too (if any) fat. In fact, I'm quite lean...
Or could you elaborate on what high quality food means in America? (or in Japan for that matter...)

Oh he can afford them alright but its quality will be much lower to yours. It's genetically modified, sprayed with all kinds of shit that it tastes like crap and has marginal nourishing value. There are options to get more natural, not mass produced goods but they are more expensive. That means most consumers just buy whatever is available that doesn't taste like roadkill.

There was a study in America pitching natural and preprocessed food against each other. In one of the tests kids were given a strawberry milkshake, one made with real strawberries (expensive) and a "regular" one bought in shop. Results were they found real strawberries "unnatural" and didn't like them.
If you never ate a real strawberry in your life no wonder you don't know how it tastes.