I was thinking of picking one of these up, because I hear they have such a great variety of Japanese Apps. However I know the Iphone 4 just came out, but I can't seem to find anything on if a new generation of Ipod Touch is going to be out soon. I'm trying to decide if I should wait to buy one or go pick one up right now.

Also how large are some of the apps and what not? I'm not sure if it's worth it to fork over the extra $100 for the 32GB version. Although I do have quite a bit of music I would like to have on there and 8GB does sound kind of small to have music and apps and such.

App-wise most things really aren't that big, unless they come with some huge database (most don't). I have an 8GB and it serves me fine, but I'm not trying to cart around all the music I own at the same time either. So make the judgment mostly based on how much music you want to carry -- personally I find the markup on the higher sizes too steep to justify it.

As for the next generation, there hasn't been any official word, but the way it USUALLY works is they'll drop it into the market sometime after the back-to-school sale ends. Apple always does a 'buy a mac, get an ipod' promotion at the end of summer, and then once they clear out the previous stuff, they tend to introduce the next iteration. It's a pretty safe guess the touch version of the iPhone4 will show up in the September/October range.

I think the 3rd generation Touch was released last fall, but I'm not really sure about the life of Apple products (they seem to be churned pretty fast) so I can't say for sure if a new iPod touch will be released. Keep checking the web to see what's the buzz. With the new iPhone and the iPad out, Apple might not be as interested in upgrading the iPod touch, but who knows?

I've got a 16GB Touch and have a few Japanese apps that are pretty swell. They're really the only apps I've really downloaded besides Facebook, a regular English dictionary, and a few miscellaneous things.People actually look at my iPod and remark how boring I am. I will say, though that I've got almost my entire music library on there (or, at least, the things I listen to regularly) plus a 25-episode anime (4.5GB, man!) and some short video podcasts, and I've still got two gigs left. My largest app is Kotoba (Japanese dictionary), at 267 MB. So 16-32GB sounds like a good bet.

8GB? Try 6.83GB on OS4 with factory settings. Even with previous versions the OS took up 1GB of space. If you have more than 3GB of music, you'll have to go really easy on the apps and videos. I always have at least 1.5GB free, but my friend's 3GS performed horribly with a full hard drive, so that's something else to keep in mind.

I only have about 2GB of music, the rest is used on every useful Japanese app I can find (including Anki), other interesting stuff (The Guardian, PDF reader, games etc), and a few videos.

As far as I'm aware, every year since the iPhone was launched, Apple have released an iPhone in June/July and an iPod in September/October. I'm hoping for a new one this year with some performance improvements over the 3G. My 2G isn't quite as nippy as I'd like, so I'd be happy to upgrade if the new one is more than twice as fast.

KirbyHead Wrote:My largest app is Kotoba (Japanese dictionary), at 267 MB.

What does it have that Japanese doesn't have? That's only 52 MB. I probably never would have paid the asking price if I'd known about kotoba at the time though.

Alright well it looks worth waiting for then just to find out if there is one coming soon. I'm not seeing a 16GB version on the apple store only 8/32/64 sadly, because 16 would serve me just fine, but 8 sounds a little small.

Because I deleted all of my non Japanese Music my current iPod(3rd gen nano, 8GB) only has 951MB of music on it, but that's steadily growing. of course I could just keep my music on this iPod and use my touch for apps and stuff, but that seems pretty silly.

I guess I'll just wait for the next gen of iPod touch and go from there.

Javizy Wrote:

KirbyHead Wrote:My largest app is Kotoba (Japanese dictionary), at 267 MB.

What does it have that Japanese doesn't have? That's only 52 MB. I probably never would have paid the asking price if I'd known about kotoba at the time though.

I'm not actually sure. Someone who's tried both would probably have a better idea. Just looking at the screenshots, though, I'd say Japanese looks to have some more features. (It can quiz you?) When I'm further along in my studies I might drop the cash for it, but as of now Kotoba suits me fine.

Word of warning: The 8gb has a slower processor than the 15/32gb iPod touch.

Javizy Wrote:

KirbyHead Wrote:My largest app is Kotoba (Japanese dictionary), at 267 MB.

What does it have that Japanese doesn't have? That's only 52 MB. I probably never would have paid the asking price if I'd known about kotoba at the time though.

Nothing. Kotoba's just a dictionary, with very little beyond definitions. My version of it is unstable, too.

Besides definitions, Japanese has kana, searches by Skip code and components, search history, JLPT vocab and kanji lists, really good stroke order animation, and other features I haven't even used yet. It's stable, not a space hog, and it has a better GUI, too. Now that I've used it for a while, I'd have cheerfully paid more for it.

I have an 8GB and so far it's more than adequate, but I store my music on my computer and download playlists to my Touch, so that's not an issue for me. And I haven't notice any lack of processor speed, either.

I might have the opportunity to buy a used iPod touch (2. generation, 16 GB) from the friend of a friend who just got herself an iPhone and thus doesn't need her old iPod anymore. A 3. generation iPod might also be available in my circle of friends, so that would be another option, though I haven't asked around yet.

Now, I was wondering what you think of this 2. generation iPod when compared to the newer generations? I had a look at the wikipedia page about iPod touch, but apart from the fact that I don't really want to get a 1. or 4. generation (1. is too old, and 4. is too expensive), I don't understand a lot of the technical information given about the 2. and 3. generations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_Touch).
Is it really worth it to buy a 3. generation if I plan to use it mainly as an MP3-player, to review Anki cards, and have some other language learning apps on it? Of course the 3. generation would have at least 32 GB, and would probably be faster than the 2. generation, but how important is this for apps?
Also, some of my Anki cards have audio and I'd like to review them with audio, is that something that needs to be considered when choosing the iPod generation?

Maybe I should also add, that I don't plan to get an iPhone, so my cell phone and the iPod would have no overlapping features.

Thoughts, suggestions, warnings?

Before I got my iphone 4 was using gen II ipod touch 16GB and it was serving me well for Japanese studies... used anki with audio cards all the time. My iphone 4 is noticeably faster with reviews, but it wasn't a problem before or anything. also used "japanese", "the wisdom" dictionaries. And of course listened to music/podcasts.

Trying to work out what to do with my ipod touch at the moment actually, never use it now.

I have a 16gb iphone 3gs and have never had memory issues. I usually have a few TV episodes and movies, a couple hundred songs and podcasts, and all my apps. That includes 3 dictionary apps (but apps take up the least amount right now on my phone). It's about 3/4 full

[Katsuo]

I have 2nd & 4th generation iPods and use both of them for learning/reviewing Japanese. The 2nd generation is still very good for many purposes, but here are some of the differences:

1) Speed. Depends on the app being used. Some are much slower, others not at all.
2) Pixels. The 4G is has a much crisper "Retina" display. Not only is the screen much better in general, it's very useful for reading small kanji.
3) Sound. The built-in speaker in the 4G is a huge improvement. For me, the 2G speaker is too weak & thin to use for listening to spoken Japanese, but the 4G is good enough. If you always use headphones this is not relevant, of course.
4) Multi-tasking. This is useful for quickly switching between apps. Not available in the 2G.
5) Cameras. Only on the 4G. This is sometimes useful for Japanese, e.g. you see some text and photo it to read later.
6) Microphone. Only on the 4G (but plug-in mics are available for 2G). Again, sometimes you may want to record some live Japanese to listen to later.

So my opinion is that if the 2G is cheap, then get it. The 4G is a big improvement in many ways so if you can afford it...

I have a 3rd gen ipod touch.

TBH, multi-tasking would be the biggest thing for me. Being able to switch instantly between AnkiMobile, Japanese (my japanese dictionary) and the Tae Kim grammar app is essential, I couldn't go back.

That said, before multi-tasking was officially introduced I used a multi-tasking jailbreak add-on (backgrounder), and it worked perfectly, actually its better than the official Apple multi-tasking implementation (though it does KILL the battery). So you CAN still have multi-tasking if you're a bit techy and can handle jailbreaking and reduces battery life. Not sure the cpu and ram of 2nd gen devices would allow many apps to run simultaneously though.

I upgraded my 2G shortly after the 4G came out. I don't think the retina display can be underrated, because it makes reading so much easier. The 2G was too blurry for me, and strained my eyes if I was reading a long PDF or something. The microphone and camera also give value for money, since you can use Skype and Facetime. The sound quality on Skype is so good that I actually prefer my iPod to my PC for chatting now. You don't need to hold it either, so it's more comfortable than a headset or a phone or something.

I think the 2G is too inferior now to be worth more than about 1/4 the price of a 4G. If the 3G is 32GB, then it will have similar performance to the 4G, so you'll only really be missing out on the two features above, if you don't care about looks and other little changes. Still, I wouldn't be paying an amount close to the 4G pricetag for it.

Soo... thanks to your input and Katsuo's detailed list, the 4th gen Ipod touch is back in the game, and the 2nd gen one is almost out (it'll entirely depend on what price that friends friend will ask for).

Since I've never used an Ipod touch before and are thus unfamiliar with it's possibilities, I only thought of using it as a portable Anki/Music/Dictionary devise. Now your posts hinted quite strongly that the language learning possibilities with it are becoming more diverse when one advances in the language, or has the right set of mind full of ideas.

I had assumed that the "Retina" display might be helpful with the kanji, but hadn't been aware that the difference would be so significant. In addition I had been sure that the camera and microphone features were, at least for me, entirely useless gimmicks not worth the money, as their possible usage for language learning never crossed my mind. Never thought about multi-tasking, I'd assumed that that would have been a given since 1st gen, and battery life is very important to me, so jailbreaking of the 2nd gen devise is not really an option.

It seems that I should see buying a 4th gen/3rd gen iPod touch as a long term investment, grasp the nettle, and spend the money. The 32GB currently costs about 300€, which is a lot of money, but then again I'd probably be using it for as long as my current MP3-player (1GB memory, ugly as hell, and 5 years old, but still working fine), and it's probably less money than what I spend on sweets, snacks, and coffee per year. In addition my birthday is coming up, so part if not all of the costs might be covered by that.

Now, here are two more questions. If I'd settle to buy an 4th gen iPod, is it really worth it, price/waiting time-wise, to wait for the release of the 5th generation? And two, would it still be useful to get a good electronic dictionary (e.g. Casio EX-word XD-A10000) when one has a 4th gen iPod? The second question is only important if I win the lottery this year, successfully rob a bank, or sell a kidney, and need ideas how to spend the millions I've suddenly obtained.

Biene Wrote:Now, here are two more questions. If I'd settle to buy an 4th gen iPod, is it really worth it, price/waiting time-wise, to wait for the release of the 5th generation?

I would say yes. If you're going to be using it for several years into the future, you may as well wait a bit now (they usually come out at the beginning of September) and get a 5th gen iPod. The current rumours are, faster CPU, larger screen. Nothing's guaranteed but it's obviously going to be superior to the 4th gen in various ways.

Biene Wrote:And two, would it still be useful to get a good electronic dictionary (e.g. Casio EX-word XD-A10000) when one has a 4th gen iPod? The second question is only important if I win the lottery this year, successfully rob a bank, or sell a kidney, and need ideas how to spend the millions I've suddenly obtained.

I'd say no. I have a 4th gen iPod and have never had any desire for anything in addition. I have two dictionaries on my iPod, Japanese and 大辞林, and together they serve my needs wonderfully. The iPod has the advantage that it's just there in your pocket all the time. You can pull it out and look something up whenever you want.

fakewookie Wrote:

Biene Wrote:And two, would it still be useful to get a good electronic dictionary (e.g. Casio EX-word XD-A10000) when one has a 4th gen iPod? The second question is only important if I win the lottery this year, successfully rob a bank, or sell a kidney, and need ideas how to spend the millions I've suddenly obtained.

I'd say no. I have a 4th gen iPod and have never had any desire for anything in addition. I have two dictionaries on my iPod, Japanese and 大辞林, and together they serve my needs wonderfully. The iPod has the advantage that it's just there in your pocket all the time. You can pull it out and look something up whenever you want.

Opinions are wide and varied about this one.
I'd say that for almost all practical purposes, you'll be fine with just an iPod. I've got EBPocket and Japanese on my phone, and they're great. They serve my purposes just fine,

Some people like real dictionaries better though. Quicker startup speeds, quicker lookups, better handwriting recognition (mine only does Traditional Chinese...good most of the time, but not 100%), battery life, more dictionaries. Some of them say the words out loud, so you can hear pronunciation, etc... There are a bunch of reasons.

For me, the fact that it's on my phone, which I have at all times anyway, is reason enough not to spend another million dollars

Asriel Wrote:

fakewookie Wrote:

Biene Wrote:And two, would it still be useful to get a good electronic dictionary (e.g. Casio EX-word XD-A10000) when one has a 4th gen iPod? The second question is only important if I win the lottery this year, successfully rob a bank, or sell a kidney, and need ideas how to spend the millions I've suddenly obtained.

I'd say no. I have a 4th gen iPod and have never had any desire for anything in addition. I have two dictionaries on my iPod, Japanese and 大辞林, and together they serve my needs wonderfully. The iPod has the advantage that it's just there in your pocket all the time. You can pull it out and look something up whenever you want.

Opinions are wide and varied about this one.
I'd say that for almost all practical purposes, you'll be fine with just an iPod. I've got EBPocket and Japanese on my phone, and they're great. They serve my purposes just fine,

Some people like real dictionaries better though. Quicker startup speeds, quicker lookups, better handwriting recognition (mine only does Traditional Chinese...good most of the time, but not 100%), battery life, more dictionaries. Some of them say the words out loud, so you can hear pronunciation, etc... There are a bunch of reasons.

For me, the fact that it's on my phone, which I have at all times anyway, is reason enough not to spend another million dollars

I'm not sure what you mean by quicker start up speed? I mean, you have to unlock the screen, but other than that there's no loading time or anything.

There are apps with actual Japanese handwriting recognition, 大辞林 is one.

I'm sure that there are advantages to having an actual electronic dictionary, but I really don't think it's worth it if you already have an iPod. Maybe instead of, but definitely not in addition to.

There's pretty much no way an iPod dictionary can replace the sheer variety you get with a real (good) denshi jisho, and I definitely find both have their uses and complement each other well, buuut... I still wouldn't recommend buying a denshi jisho if you've already got the iPod unless you've got money to burn or you find a phenomenally good deal on the denshi jisho like I did.

Biene Wrote:Soo... thanks to your input and Katsuo's detailed list, the 4th gen Ipod touch is back in the game, and the 2nd gen one is almost out (it'll entirely depend on what price that friends friend will ask for).

I was pretty much in the same situation like you a few weeks ago as I wasn't sure if I should invest into a 4G touch. Now that I got one I'd say its definately worth it. The retina display is seriously amazing, its double the resolution of a 3G so yea, do your eyes a favor and go for it You could get one cheap off ebay.de if you're fine with 8GB.
I got my Ipod in mint condition with some accessories for 160 Euro. Didn't take that long to find one that was 'like-new', so you could try that. just pay attention to clear pics of the display/back and make sure the seller is not randomasshole007 with zero feedback.

I didnt want to wait until September~ for 5G because I got tired of being bound to the PC using anki. Well, and now I tend to do more reviews at home (and in general) because its just that convenient, even if you're cooking, watching tv or w/e... you can always get in a few extra reviews as long as you have one free hand : )

fakewookie Wrote:I would say yes. If you're going to be using it for several years into the future, you may as well wait a bit now (they usually come out at the beginning of September) and get a 5th gen iPod. The current rumours are, faster CPU, larger screen. Nothing's guaranteed but it's obviously going to be superior to the 4th gen in various ways.

Actually what I meant to ask was, if it is worth to wait for the release of the 5th gen to buy the 4th gen for a cheaper price. It seems, that each time Apple introduced a new generation, the price for the older generation was reduced by about 100 $. Either way it is probably a good idea to wait until September/October before buying either 4th or 5th gen, as reviewing on the computer hasn't killed me yet. Having an iPod touch now would of course be nicer, but I could also use the "wait-until-September"-thinking as an encurragment, as I'm currently finishing up my PhD and then award myself with a brand-new 4th or 5th gen iPod at the end of the year (depending on my performance in the defense of the thesis).

As for an extra electronic dictionary in addition to an iPod touch, indeed I should wait and see how well my Japanese skills develop and spend the millions on other useful things. Trying out the actual dictionary in a shop and compare it to the iPod would probably also be a good idea. From just looking at pictures I'd say I'd probably like an electronic dictionary better than a dictionary on an iPod, but that's simply because the keyboard/pencil looks much more familiar than the touch screen. Also the additional dictionarys ARE tempting, BUT my language skills are not good enough (yet) to verify the purchase of such an expensive gadget. I'll see what the future brings and if I find a money-tree I'll buy one regardless how good my skills are.

Anyway, thank you very much for all your input and suggestions, they were very helpful.

I personally wouldn't wait for the 5th gen iTouch.

First of all, probably not going to be till at least September. 6 months is a long time in Japanese learning. Secondly prices won't drop that much - Apple still sell reconditioned (i.e. 2nd hand) 3rd gen 32GB Ipods on the UK Applestore for £170, compared to £240 for 4th gen - it just doesn't seem like a big price difference.

Finally, if rumours are true (photos of the 5th gen ipod leaked this week), this release will just be a hardware refresh similar to 2nd gen -> 3rd, i.e. faster CPU + GPU (to bring it up to ipad2), more memory (128GB on offer), new touch sensitive button. Maybe they'll also improve the cameras (making them the same resolution as iphone4), add GPS, that's going to be it though - nothing revolutionary.

You can get some decent deals on the 4th gen ipods in Europe at the moment; get one for your birthday, you won't regret it!

aphasiac Wrote:I personally wouldn't wait for the 5th gen iTouch.

First of all, probably not going to be till at least September. 6 months is a long time in Japanese learning. Secondly prices won't drop that much - Apple still sell reconditioned (i.e. 2nd hand) 3rd gen 32GB Ipods on the UK Applestore for £170, compared to £240 for 4th gen - it just doesn't seem like a big price difference.

Finally, if rumours are true (photos of the 5th gen ipod leaked this week), this release will just be a hardware refresh similar to 2nd gen -> 3rd, i.e. faster CPU + GPU (to bring it up to ipad2), more memory (128GB on offer), new touch sensitive button. Maybe they'll also improve the cameras (making them the same resolution as iphone4), add GPS, that's going to be it though - nothing revolutionary.

You can get some decent deals on the 4th gen ipods in Europe at the moment; get one for your birthday, you won't regret it!

You know, you don't really help make my life easier...

I really am tempted to get a 4th gen iPod now rather than in September (the offer from the friend's friend was not worth it, and all the good feedback for the 4th gen finally convinced me to aim for that generation of iPods). Not so much because 6 months is a long time in Japanese learning (I'm an expert at procrastination, so 6 months is nothing), but because I'm really bad at waiting and like to have one now.

The non-apple-store prices (e.g. ebay) on the other hand seem to be ok, considering that I wouldn't have to wait for 6 months minimum. I guess I'll think a bit more about it, discuss it with friends and family and then decide. My birthday is not immediately round the corner, so I've still some time and still could use the iPod ans an half-way-finished-award.

Hmm, decisions, decisions.

This is always an issue with buying Apple products - there's always something better about to be released! It's so annoying that someone made this site, to help people decide when to buy:

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

As long as you're not the guy who buys an Ipad the week before the Ipad2 was released, i don't think it matters too much..

EDIT: one big recommendation - buy the largest capacity you can afford. I've already filled up my 32GB itpouch with music, anime and anki decks - wish I had a 64GB one now