Does anybody have any idea of how good military trained linguists are?

Is their education equal to RTK + Manga ? (Jokes...)

Seriously, what do people know/think about this type of language course/learning?

It seems like a sweet deal for someone who is interested in languages. Get paid to learn a language and work with languages everyday!

It seems they focus a lot more on listening and speaking than reading and writing. I have a friend who is learning Russion and Japanese through the military. To be honest I don't know much other than that.

Hmm I would love to get paid to learn languages. Ironically it's one of the few things I never get lazy at. Two languages I want to know are japanese and manadarin(maybe Cantonese afterwards, maybe.)
I guess it's linked to, creating new opportunities and possibilities in life. Like more traveling, going aboard. Learning new cultures/languages other than your native one.But one thing is important, learn a language for interest. No other reason. Sure it's good to know languages for work-wise,etc,etc. But if you have a strong interest/passion. You'll get farther that way then just having "Must do this, to get a job",etc,etc.

http://www.dliflc.edu/index.html

I'll put it this way, they don't teach you a language you want to learn, they teach you a language they want you to learn. Japanese is not high on the list of likely languages, though Korean, Arabic, French and Chinese are quite popular now.

There's supposedly a high attrition rate early on to weed out those not learning at the speed they want. Actually, there was a member on this board that was going through it last year with Chinese. Not sure how he ended up.

When I went to Africa, I noticed a lot of the "linguists" didn't like the language that they specialized in. And those were the Russian and Chinese linguists. I sort of understood why the Somalian linguist didn't like hers.

I forget where I heard it from, but I remember hearing that they struggled with basic conversational stuff... because they're so used to deciphering complicated military orders, spy work, political speeches, etc. and they don't usually carry out basic conversation. =)

Korean and Chinese? I'm taking classes in those already. ^__^

kainzero Wrote:I forget where I heard it from, but I remember hearing that they struggled with basic conversational stuff... because they're so used to deciphering complicated military orders, spy work, political speeches, etc. and they don't usually carry out basic conversation. =)

I have a feeling that's going to happen to me. I tend to read so much kanji-fied stuff.
Although my speech already sucks so no problem there...

My grandfather in law was an air force translator(of picked up coded messages) during the Korean War. His main focuses were Japanese, Russian and French. As for the details of how much he used each its unknown to me.

Anyways, the programs focused on technical material and efficiency. Meaning that the messages or text being translated was not expected to flow or have any artistic style to it unlike a Literature translator would.
And yes, they are competent, many very competent in their languages in speaking. Depending on what branch of military and of course war/peace time or any number of factors those who specialize in their language can be stationed in the respective country. My grandfather was stationed in Yokohama and spoke perfect(you know for a foreigner) Japanese. Married a japanese lady the whole shabang.

Anyways from what I know and this might be only for the Air Force, you get into the programs by testing in or having a high aptitude. You're not going to just choose what language, what area of language, etc you want you learn. If you test high for proficiency and get picked to learn Korean, well there you are doing Korean mechanic repairs in Seoul.
Of course even this is variable. If you have past experience with a language, are bilingual, have certain ethnicity, etc.



Basically what I'm saying is while you do get paid to use languages, its not exactly what an avid language learner might want.

Erubey Wrote:Anyways from what I know and this might be only for the Air Force, you get into the programs by testing in or having a high aptitude.

To expand on this point, one of my friends just took the Air Force test you're talking about a few months ago, and he was assigned to be a linguist. He had studied for almost a year before taking the exam, and had placed high.

I'm sure he didn't present me with all the details, but he told me that they basically assign you a certain occupation based upon your performance on the exam.

Prior to taking the exam, you have to sign a contract agreeing to remain in the service for x amount of years. This is done to prevent someone from signing up, and then jumping ship if they dislike the occupation they're assigned.

On another note, one of my roommates attended a Chinese language competition last month. An Airforce linguist was there, and he had been learning three languages in less than two years, once of which was Korean. My roommate is a zainichi, and said that his Korean was better than hers (although, she admits her Korean is only at a conversational level). I think she told me that he had been learning Korean for 6 or 8 months, with at least 6 hours of formal study a day. Seems effective!

This is all my experience at the DLI in Chinese...

Quote:Prior to taking the exam, you have to sign a contract agreeing to remain in the service for x amount of years. This is done to prevent someone from signing up, and then jumping ship if they dislike the occupation they're assigned.

That's not true, you take all of the diagnostic testing (including the DLAB) before you enlist.

Quote:I forget where I heard it from, but I remember hearing that they struggled with basic conversational stuff... because they're so used to deciphering complicated military orders, spy work, political speeches, etc. and they don't usually carry out basic conversation.

Basically right. I can tell you how to tie your shoes in Chinese, but none of my classmates could.

Quote:There's supposedly a high attrition rate early on to weed out those not learning at the speed they want.

Really, to be completely honest, the people who fail out are A. retarded and don't study. B. married with kids/have a messed up personal life and don't study.

Quote:Actually, there was a member on this board that was going through it last year with Chinese. Not sure how he ended up.

I graduate in December. I've still got a 4.0 and my teachers are going to have me start teaching classes in two months after my first DLPT.

Quote:Does anybody have any idea of how good military trained linguists are?

Chinese/Japanese linguists are not taught to write at all. (After the first month or so, at least, where they make a token (and doomed to fail) effort to teach you stroke order and such.

Some of us are pretty impressive in terms of listening/reading comprehension, and the ones that make an effort on their own can end up speaking pretty well as there's a very big focus on pronunciation for the first few months.

Quote:As kainzero says, most military linguists deal with stuff like weapons types, military lingo, etc.

Surprisingly, untrue. We have one hour a week devoted to military stuff, and the first 4 months is only numbers. I guess we do probably have, in comparison to the average learner, a bigger vocabulary of military jargon, but it's really not that big.

Quote:It seems like a sweet deal for someone who is interested in languages. Get paid to learn a language and work with languages everyday!

It is pretty sweet, but do not underestimate the level of military bullshit you're going to have to deal with on a daily (hourly) basis - also don't join the Marines (sorry Nuke, you guys get shit on even more).

As far as what languages are 'popular'. It's really a crapshoot and depends on your branch. I will say this for you Japanafiles, if you want Japanese look into National Guard, it's pretty much the only bet for enlisted.

A lot of good info here... I'll add what I have found out.

There seems to be more than one type of linguist. You have translators/interpreters and then you have Cryptological linguists. The latter essentially intercept foreign communications and scan the material for anything of interest. They do a lot of listening, probably not much speaking. I wonder how they feel about input vs output, haha...

In Australia you will initially study the language assigned to you for 22 weeks. That's five months of full time language study, baby. Later on you have the opportunity to study again, either in the same language at a more advanced level or a second language. They also offer a 48 week course. I read that in the US, they have lessons 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, brutal.

I imagine this is pretty damn intense study and mentally draining, but also an opportunity to learn multiple languages...

Like some people have mentioned the language learning is targeted, military specific, however with some self study I don't think it could preclude you from being well rounded and competent.

We're in for 6 hours a day 5 days a week, if you're below a 3.0 average, or fail a test, you're in for an extra hour every day.

zer0range Wrote:

Quote:It seems like a sweet deal for someone who is interested in languages. Get paid to learn a language and work with languages everyday!

It is pretty sweet, but do not underestimate the level of military bullshit you're going to have to deal with on a daily (hourly) basis - also don't join the Marines (sorry Nuke, you guys get shit on even more).

As far as what languages are 'popular'. It's really a crapshoot and depends on your branch. I will say this for you Japanafiles, if you want Japanese look into National Guard, it's pretty much the only bet for enlisted.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Care to elaborate on what you mean with the bs?

The reason I ask is because I am thinking of doing this in Aus...

I can only speak to the US situation... and I'm reluctant to do so, because it's going to come across as whining (because they're pretty much intrinsic in military) but here are some of the negatives..

Basic training is a huge waste of 2-4 months. You will learn basically nothing, get out of shape if you're already in good shape and be bored out of your mind for the entire time.

You'll have to deal with some of the most retarded people in positions of leadership. You'll have idiots getting on you about stupid things like whether or not your shoes are polished, your hair is half an inch too long and then watch that same person turn around and praise another fat piece of lard who is borderline failing their language (but bro, check out how in regulations he is!) and go to mind-numbing presentations about how we shouldn't do cocaine, rape people, or drive after drinking. You'll have to go to musters early in the morning, where you are told... nothing. You'll be working over 40 hours a week, sometimes over 50 (but your pay doesn't go up). You lose a good chunk of your rights as a civilian (for instance, you can be ordered to get inoculations or medical procedures). And so on...

I'm not sure how hard it is to get a commission in Australia (basically in the US it's as easy as having a degree in a real subject) but being a commissioned officer, while still is not as good as being a civilian, is still infinitely better than being enlisted.

Zer0range, that sounds about right. Trust me, I can go on a long rant myself about how good the US military is along with how messed up it is.

Still, not many jobs will give a guy right out of high school a thirty thousand dollar salary his second year in (assuming he's married and lives in a higher cost of living area). Not many jobs will not only send you to school for a year, but then send to you further training throughout your career.

Hell, had I found out that learning languages were not that hard earlier, I could have applied for the program Zer0range did so long as it was before my 12 year mark. Again, I don't think many other jobs pay to have you change your specialty.

But yeah, the BS gets to you. Though, it seems BS is universal to A-holes everywhere. Anyone here work corporate with nothing but good stories to tell?

People in the military are not the only people who go through the US government linguist programs...

Yeah, I believe if you have a degree, you can become an officer in Australia, which I will come November.

Nukemarine is right; BS abounds in corporations as well.

Despite that somewhat dismal picture, it still seems like a great opportunity. In Australia, you can get a diploma in linguistics if your marks are good enough, learn a third language as well, eventually be good enough to work as a civilian translator/interpreter if you decided to bail later on. During training you get $38,000 a year, which goes up to like $60,000 (AUD) after you finish your initial training. I will not get this after working a year in my major, in fact, probably not after 3 years. That plus free health care and benefits, such as; mortgage assistance makes it very attractive.

I believe our secret service does not train linguists, but recruits those with the required skill set.

Some of you might be interested in the book Kanji & Codes, about Allied linguists of Japanese during WWII. It's a fascinating read about how they went from zero to linguist in 3-4 years (and in less than a year during the most serious times of the war).

http://www.amazon.com/Kanji-Codes-Learni...0939985039

Also, after the war a lot of those linguists became renouned literary translators and Japanologists. The most famous was Edward Seidensticker who translated the Tale of Genji in full as well as other famous Japanese authors like Mishima, Kawabata and Tanizaki.

I can't agree more with what nuke and hellswan said, I emphasized the negatives 1. because I was asked to, and 2. because I see people on a daily basis unable to cope with it.

There are tremendous opportunities out there through the military (and not just for languages). Just make sure that you do your research, get your contract squared away and know that you're going to have to put up with bullshit. (Maybe I should adopt the Chinese way of describing their 'Chinese special flavor' of Socialism and say that you will have to put up with a 'Military special flavor' of bullshit)

thegeelonghellswan Wrote:I believe our secret service does not train linguists, but recruits those with the required skill set.

Unless this has changed in the past 5-10 years, you're 100% correct. My aunt worked for ASIO for a long time (and for a number of other government branches as well), but was hired because she was already fluent in half a dozen languages.

I suppose while there's a pool of willing and able talent to tap into, it would be a waste of time and money to be training newbies from scratch. Wish they would, though. I'd have my hand up to join Not the ADF, though - I know too many people who've dropped out as a result of the institutionalised bullying there (in ADFA, RMC Duntroon and the Navy), including some fairly tough cookies...

auxetoiles,

I haven't really thought about bullying, but I suppose it happens, it is the military, not ballet after all.

thegeelonghellswan Wrote:I haven't really thought about bullying, but I suppose it happens, it is the military, not ballet after all.

Funny you should mention that - I have another rellie in the Australian Ballet, and it's not without its own bit of nastiness (ballerinas are divas, after all)

You might be able to bypass a lot of the bullying if you're a direct-entry officer - the worst of it seems to happen in the early years of training, most of which I gather you'd get to bypass...? At any rate, if your username is at all indicative (I get visions of a weird mashup between the Swans' and Cats' mascots), you probably have nothing to worry about.

Haha... I would never have thought that about ballet...

No, my name has nothing to do with afl, it's just random words, but I too can picture a VB drinking, Holden driving, rabid afl fan.

it says here: http://www.goarmy.com/content/goarmy/lin...grams.html that if you can score a 2/2 on the DLPT, you can be a linguist in that language versus going to DLI to learn a new language.. this got me really interested into becoming a military linguist lately. I might look into it after I finish my degree.