Why is there such a fascination with high voices?

金田朋子 is a special case; she has a naturally unusual voice. I don't think there's necessarily a "fascination", she was probably on that show because she was in the game they're covering or something.

(She has her フリーダム in full form on that video...)

Oh, is she well known?
I just assumed it was fake due to the excessive laughing.
Interesting.

Why is there such a fascination with marbles in Belgium?

Please don't generalize exceptional cases into representing an entire population. Yes, some women elevate their voices to appear cuter or more feminine, but the way your comment is phrased it feels more like "those crazy Japanese" than an attempt at a serious discussion.

Well, I think you can't deny that in general, Japanese women seem to have excessively high pitched voices.
I think its probably just social conditioning. They hear other girls around them speaking in high voices, so they learn to do it unconsciously. I'm totally just guessing here :p
Of course, some of these girls seem to take it to the extreme...

She's somewhat well known. Here's one episode of a web show she does, she has Onosaka on this time.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm887004
You can see from the comments that the Japanese people think it's pretty odd too, although there is some かわええええええ as is to be expected.

The vast majority of women I've met in normal social situations have had a decidedly normal pitch. If you've lived in the country before and have experience talking to women outside of Akiba, and your experience was different, then I'd love to hear about it.

resolve Wrote:The vast majority of women I've met in normal social situations have had a decidedly normal pitch. If you've lived in the country before and have experience talking to women outside of Akiba, and your experience was different, then I'd love to hear about it.

Well, my sample size of Japanese women is small, consisting only of a few I met at college, and some that I have talked to over the phone or on skype. Except for the older ones, almost all of them had very high pitched voices, in my opinion. I don't mean they sounded like chipmunks or anything, but they all had noticeably higher voices than most American women I know.

I love the sound of it, by the way

"Please don't generalize exceptional cases into representing an entire population."
I don't think all Japanes people have high pitch voices...I was reffering mainly to these types of videos. It seems the game industry portaits women with exceptionally high voices. Why is it so funny? (I cannot understand a word she is speaking.)

I guess my comment was rather ambiguous.

"Why is there such a fascination with marbles in Belgium?"
No no no. Everyone in Belgium eats waffled for breakfast.

Women do alter their voices so that their pitches are higher. It's more feminine and attractive.

I live in Korea and it's really funny. I'll have some girlfriends all cute and high pitched voiced around me and then I hear them talking on the phone to their friends and their pitch changes a whole lot.

For me being exposed to it so much, when I hear a girl with a deep voice, it's almost disgusting. It's too masculine. I think this is how the male population would probably react to girls not altering their voices.

So really to answer your question, my best bet would be on the feminine aspect. The same reason women dress differently and use the language differently than men.

gyuujuice Wrote:It seems the game industry portaits women with exceptionally high voices.

Because most gamers and anime watchers are young otakus who love "cute".

Quote:Why is it so funny? (I cannot understand a word she is speaking.)

She was being ditzy and he was laughing at the inappropriateness of her responses.

In general, men have lower-pitched voices than women, for whatever reasons. Plenty of easily discovered studies to that effect, including studies on 'attractiveness ratings' (http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2...ost_at.php). I do think culture plays a part, and other studies suggest the same (http://books.google.com/books?id=d_wJcQL...ch&f=false), but for instance in the book just linked, while there are consistent gender differences and there's a skew where Japanese women seem to have somewhat higher voices than other cultures (and Dutch women the opposite, apparently: http://soulmeetsworld.com/2009/05/incred...art-3.html), it's pretty dynamic and contextual for both men and women (apparently for the news they pitch their voices lower for 'trust' and higher for 'politeness' in sales), not some extreme thing applied 24/7. There's also the physiological element...

bindasj Wrote:For me being exposed to it so much, when I hear a girl with a deep voice, it's almost disgusting. It's too masculine. I think this is how the male population would probably react to girls not altering their voices.

I think that's more a problem with you/others judging such voices as almost disgusting/masculine. Personally I think more men with higher pitched voices and women with lower pitched voices is best, and that those who prefer otherwise have almost disgusting aesthetics.

nest0r Wrote:Personally I think more men with higher pitched voices and women with lower pitched voices is best, and that those who prefer otherwise have almost disgusting aesthetics.

this is the reason i try to never get in arguments with you. the points you bring up are rock-solid, and I anything I come up with just falls short next to your arguments.

resolve Wrote:

gyuujuice Wrote:It seems the game industry portaits women with exceptionally high voices.

Because most gamers and anime watchers are young otakus who love "cute".

Who is generalizing now?

Sebastian Wrote:

resolve Wrote:

gyuujuice Wrote:It seems the game industry portaits women with exceptionally high voices.

Because most gamers and anime watchers are young otakus who love "cute".

Who is generalizing now?

Speaking of which, what are the gamer demographics in Japan? Anyone know?

Asriel Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:Personally I think more men with higher pitched voices and women with lower pitched voices is best, and that those who prefer otherwise have almost disgusting aesthetics.

this is the reason i try to never get in arguments with you. the points you bring up are rock-solid, and I anything I come up with just falls short next to your arguments.

Oh, well, thanks. ;p

Sebastian Wrote:

resolve Wrote:

gyuujuice Wrote:It seems the game industry portaits women with exceptionally high voices.

Because most gamers and anime watchers are young otakus who love "cute".

Who is generalizing now?

Fair call. Let's try again: because the game producers have determined that high pitched voices are appealing to a significant portion of their audience, whose age and otakuness I leave up to the reader to decide.

"japanese men often have slightly higher voices than western men"
I always thought the opposite, then again I have never spoken to an adult Japanese male.

I haven't really researched the topic myself, so my knowledge is limited to what little I remember from lectures by professors, but I am pretty certain there is currently no known biological characteristics for voice pitches, and that the size and shape of the vocal tract, and the other physical properties that biologically dictate one's voice have as much variation between two individuals within a population as they do between two different populations. In other words you can usually blame culture.

But to address this topic in specific: yes, in mainstream Japanese society girls do tend to raise their voices. It's a combination of the conscious awareness of it being a tool for attraction (there is certainly pressure now adays for young women to be 'nauseatingly cutesy) as well as simple cultural conditioning. I still raise my voice when I pick up the phone even now, simply because it's become so habitual after being exposed to friends and family do it my whole life.

The 'high voice' thing isn't a perpetual state for Japanese women though. It's just to seem more polite and girly, so it's only when answering the phone, in public environments like working, etc. Around family and friends girls use their normal, more relaxed voices.

But I think it's unfair to point the finger at Japan for this one. I've noticed this same thing in America, though maybe not to the same extent. Women raise their voices to seem more feminine, because there's a large cultural relation of high voices to femininity. But voices are SUPPOSED to change in different situations, based upon context. People tend to speak more gently and kindly to older people, the disabled, etc. I have a friend with an almost scarily dark and deep bass voice, but the moment he picks up his phone to talk to his grandma that voice becomes light as a pink rosebud in spring

Men change their voices to conform to the cultural conception that low/deep = masculine as well, and there are studies out there showing that many men speak have unconsciouslly conditioned their voices to normally speak as low as their register allows. Furthermore, it's a commonly recognized trait in many cultures that people will speak in softer, lighter voices to their lovers.

I guess my point is: it's a human thing. Japan has tons of things worthy of a pointed finger and a subtle, "...wtf?" but I don't consider this one of them

For the physiological stuff, check out the first section, on vocal folds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_voice

Why do American dudes try so hard to talk as low as possible and as raspy as possible?

This girl's voice is supersonic though, even for Japanese standard.

IceCream Wrote:Black men often have lower voices. So maybe there is a biological basis for it as well as the cultural aspect.

Well... I never... [/high pitched voice]

What do you mean by often? Every other person "often" has a lower voice.

Seriously, the bass in my voice is the byproduct of intentional training. I found out how low I could make it go back in high school and I just liked talking like that. I can make it go even lower, but then it just sounds scary. However, when I talk to my mom I turn into castrati. So, aijin is fairly accurate in her statements - using me as evidence.

Culture also has a lot to do with it. I've heard it stated many times that Australians tend to think Americans have very high pitched voices.

Here's a better question:

Why is there no fascination with high pitched voices in other countries?

Asriel Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:Personally I think more men with higher pitched voices and women with lower pitched voices is best, and that those who prefer otherwise have almost disgusting aesthetics.

this is the reason i try to never get in arguments with you. the points you bring up are rock-solid, and I anything I come up with just falls short next to your arguments.

What argument? What point?

I think orange is the best color and blue is the worst! Argument? Point?

But sure everyone prefers different characteristics in people, I can respect that.

kazelee Wrote:Here's a better question:

Why is there no fascination with high pitched voices in other countries?

But there is, are you not convinced by the studies linked above?

If you mean idiosyncratic pop tropes, I think it's less that there isn't anything like a 'Japanese fascination with high pitched voices' and more that any instances of such a fascination or instances of attenuated and variegated cross-cultural parallels aren't as exoticized and conspicuous in the online 'audience' consciousness.