kazelee Wrote:I'll reference this one first >_>.

Care to explain what part of my posts offend you? They seem fine to me. (biased opinion)

nest0r Wrote:What's this got to do with learning Japanese?? Mcjon, care to explain?

They have magnets in Japan, but they are, on average, not as fat as our magnets.

Jarvik7 Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:What's this got to do with learning Japanese?? Mcjon, care to explain?

They have magnets in Japan, but they are, on average, not as fat as our magnets.

I found that offensive as a Japanese-American.

But seriously, I found the old thread interesting. I've only ever been in big cities in the US (silicon valley, NY, Vegas, etc), so I've never been exposed to it. I actually thought it was a joke whenever I heard about it. Not something so big.

kazelee Wrote:

Surreal Wrote:Bill Maher visits the museum in his documentary about religion, fast forward to 7:45

(the documentary is funny but Maher isn't exactly fair in the way he's edited it, so um, best to chew on some salt while watching)

I'm glad they thoroughly explain things so you really can understand it. Really, I can't even begin to take any of this seriously, it's like a really elaborate joke.
I like the accent on Noah w

To be fair he did say to take the video with a grain of salt... before slamming the museum and the people who actually believe this.

I won't speak for anyone else, but even though I had seen the documentary (I wasn't watching it that actively so I probably missed some stuff) I didn't think that it was this big, I thought it was just this weird place a few fundamentalists came to visit. To me, how Smackle presented this and pointed out that less than the majority of Americans accept evolution was enlightening to me. If you think that I am 'slamming' the museum by pointing out how incredibly hard it is for me to grasp what's going on and questioning the methods they use for passing on their knowledge and doing so in a somewhat comical fashion, very well then I am slamming the museum and its believers.

The discussion that was just getting started about what the implications of 'evolution denial' and its consequences, as well as denial in general, was interesting to me.

"As a Christian Muslim with Shintoist tendencies I am patently offended by this topic, the links posted in it and the majority of responses. I would think men and women of your intelligence could find less offensive and controversial topics to debate.. SMACKLE.

That is all."

The part about finding "less offensive and controversial topics to debate" doesn't make much sense to me, are you saying we shouldn't discuss this because people might be offended? Maybe it's just that the wording is a bit bad, I'd understand it if you said something like "please debate this in a more respectful fashion", but outright saying we should avoid certain topics in and of themselves because of their inflammatory tendencies?

Edit: haha, whoops, I failed to notice there was a second page before I wrote this oh well

kazelee Wrote:There's a difference between an eye opener and a spectacle. The topic was established with little to no respect for the institution or the people behind it.

ZOMG people actually believe in this crap!!!

Can create little to no "understanding."

On the one hand, I absolutely don't care about that topic being locked. I get enough of that kind of thing from Fark and FSTDT. On the other hand, I also don't think that every institution is deserving of respect and understanding.

IceCream Wrote:Similarly, if the museum had simply presented what the bible said, and not tried to justify it as scientific fact, we would not even be having this discussion.

.... Interesting paradox....

Quote:If you actually read my replies I make it very clear that the problem is in NO WAY about anyone having faith in religion.

I don't think anyone has faith in religion. They have faith in gods, books, objects, mindsets, and so on. Their are many religious people who have faith in flat earths, people walking with dinosaurs, and many other notions that the topic immediately marked off as absurd. There was no back and forth. It's a pretty much one sided critique with rude jokes throw in between.

Quote:There were many replies in that thread that weren't even close to "zomg people beleive this crap". Reread Surreals responses, Nest0rs, smackles, mine, Yukamina's, many others.

Yes and it's unfortunate they are surrounded by garbage.

Quote:It's obviously an important topic,

Not really. But that's just my opinion, though. >_>

Quote:that in my mind needs absolutely less censorship than it is already getting.

Censorship would be me going through and editing out the jokes and uncalled for statements. I just locked the thing.

Quote:Honestly, it looks like you are trying to find something in the replies that isn't really there.

So you didn't say that "intelligent people" should have like six babies, implying that it's necessary to out populate the stupid people? Maybe I should stop using deductive reasoning... Also, how is this constructive?

Am I trying to find something not there or are you ignoring the obvious?

Perhaps you'd like me to just ignore this and focus on the positive.

Quote:It helped me to understand how big of an issue this really is.

How so? Yes, I'm genuinely calling you out here? Please tell me how it helped you understand.

Quote:Perhaps it would equally be an eye opener for a creationist who beleived that what the museum was presenting as scientific fact... actually isn't.

Because of all the similar topics on the net, this one would be the one to change things, even though it started out on fire.

Quote:People can only make their minds up once they know the truth.

What is the truth being revealed here?

Quote:Why censor such an important subject further??

See above.

Take nest0rs suggestion. If you're going do it do it right.

Surreal Wrote:The part about finding "less offensive and controversial topics to debate" doesn't make much sense to me, are you saying we shouldn't discuss this because people might be offended?

NO. I'm telling smackle to chill out.

Quote:Maybe it's just that the wording is a bit bad, I'd understand it if you said something like "please debate this in a more respectful fashion", but outright saying we should avoid certain topics in and of themselves because of their inflammatory tendencies?

Is it possible to debate this in a more respectful matter? I've yet to see it. If it is possible, please show me.

Mcjon01 Wrote:On the other hand, I also don't think that every institution is deserving of respect and understanding.

Though, people with this sort of attitude will generally be responding.

Magnet, my butt. That's a Gaia Memory! Somebody call W! :O

Fuckin magnets - How do they work?

I believe all recent internet references to magnets are based on this song, in case anyone was wondering. I didn't actually read this thread, but at a glance I didn't see anyone mention it. Know your meme!

IceCream Wrote:Every intelligent person knows the world is already overpopulated

Almost. It's being overpopluated is more precise to say....I've read somewhere that even with our current technology, the planet is able to sustain even 20 billion people or something....

@IceCream

"I generally think your decisions on when to lock topics are well timed, but i think this decision was a bad one."


Hey. Like I said, I could be wrong (wait that was in an email to another member). So, you did learn something. That's awesome!

Perhaps I am looking for something that's not there. This sort of thing really doesn't help.

Smackle Wrote:

Mcjon01 Wrote:If somebody could explain to me exactly how magnets work in great detail, I'd be much obliged. I don't want to listen to any scientists, though, because you incorrigible scoundrels are always lying, and raising my ire.

At least some other person knows the song.

If you're truly interested in continuing the discussion, start a new topic - leave the jokes out, please.

Or use google...>_>

kazelee Wrote:

Smackle Wrote:

Mcjon01 Wrote:If somebody could explain to me exactly how magnets work in great detail, I'd be much obliged. I don't want to listen to any scientists, though, because you incorrigible scoundrels are always lying, and raising my ire.

At least some other person knows the song.

If you're truly interested in continuing the discussion, start a new topic - leave the jokes out, please.

I'll preface this question by saying I am not being sarcastic. Are you talking about the Creation Museum topic or the magnet topic? Because the quote seems to suggest the magnet topic. In which case I will say, I did not really intend to raise a topic about magnetism.

kazelee Wrote:leave the jokes out, please.

I don't know, I'm of the opinion that a discussion comprised of 20% meaningful conversation and 80% snark is better than one comprised of 20% meaningful conversation and 80% hateful flamewar. At the very least, humor is an asinine outlet for impotent e-rage, rather than an actively destructive one.

If you want 100% meaningful conversation, the internet is probably the wrong place to look.

And for my part, I do try to be serious if I see the topic isn't in the Koohii Lounge. I'm simply not terribly informed on very many topics, and thus have little to offer in the way of insight. I do so like to be included in things, though. Perhaps the level of discourse in the Lounge is in some way being affected by the description: "Take a break and enjoy insanely off topic discussions" gives the entire thing an air of silliness right from the start.

Smackle Wrote:In which case I will say, I did not really intend to raise a topic about magnetism.

Time... wasted...

kazelee Wrote:Interesting. And your intention with the Museum thread?

For people to see one of the only museums dedicated to Creationism, one that in its three years open has amassed more than 1 million visitors and was funded 27 million dollars.

For people to see the points it raises and how it draws those conclusions.

For people to know how major Creationism is in America.

If you look on Youtube or lots of other sites, you'll mostly see videos drenched in a narrative which these pictures and these videos do not contain. There's one picture of a guy posing rather sarcastically, but that's a bit negligible. It also presents most of the museum except for some of the speeches from special speakers (ones that might be pushing books and such) which are prohibited from being recorded. So although I may have bias, the actual material has very little.

People think it's this joke that no one actually believes in, but there is a good portion of America that does.

(I actually would argue it's one of my better threads. You could delete or lock some of the other sensationalist stuff.)

Can't relate to something Smackle and IceCream mentioned a few times about this stuff being novel/surprising/etc.: The Web's been aflame with these topics and pretty much the exact same points/information for years, they're very mainstream and repetitive, not really seeing the point of flipping out and arguing for yet another leech-thread to temporarily turn this forum into a generic melange of often juvenile punditry. (Not that it always happens, but the potential is there, and kazelee and Fabrice must be vigilant against barbarians like Blahah and Jarvik7. ;p)

I can see raising the issue for kazelee to mull over in the future, but wow. ;p

That said... Pharmacists denying customers the morning after pill because of their religious beliefs against abortion or whatever. Discuss.

Grinkers and Surreal thought it was surprising to some extent too. I suppose nest0r is the personification of the entire internet and its users though.

IceCream Wrote:@nest0r: i don't particularly want to start a new thread because, as a whole, i don't even have a problem with the creationist view. I think it's equally possible that a creationist would be offended at the way that museum presents itself as scientific fact, and the way it presents real science.

Joan Roughgarden, whose thoughts on evolution I'm fond of, wrote a book on the compatibility of faith and evolution. I haven't read it because I have no respect for religion, but I bet it's decent.

Is it possible that allowing creationism and suchlike into 'the system', it can end up being held to the same standards that scientists are? Or will it somehow retain its status like diplomatic immunity? I wonder... There's an article about that, methinks, somewhere here: http://www.newscientist.com/special/living-in-denial

Here: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20...eapon.html

Smackle Wrote:Grinkers and Surreal thought it was surprising to some extent too. I suppose nest0r is the personification of the entire internet and its users though.

In the time you spent writing this comment, you could've checked the veracity of my statement. Here's another one: A lot of people are talking about the oil spill in the gulf, and North Korea's sinking of a South Korean ship.

Yours,
The Internet

There's food all over the world. Therefore, no one is starving.

Smackle Wrote:There's food all over the world. Therefore, no one is starving.

I'm sure plenty of threads about the poor and hungry have been closed because they devolved into pointless insults towards a group of people, and someone complained about those threads being closed rather than starting anew and doing it right. ;p

For the record, being 'meh' means I wouldn't have bothered closing the thread, I just would've wittily chastised the posters and encouraged a slightly different tone. But kazelee has grown mad with power. I'm forced to defend kazelee for fear of... repercussions.

I think people are just reacting because it seemed like someone just saying, "Shut up." rather than warning and going, "Please talk about this in a more respectful manner."

Smackle Wrote:I think people are just reacting because it seemed like someone just saying, "Shut up." rather than warning and going, "Please talk about this in a more respectful manner."

Meh.

One thing about this forum is more often than not even a thread started as a joke or some minor pop art related theme can quickly devolve into a serious discussion much to the dismay of the OP.

Yeah, I thought the Creation Museum thread was started as more of a "Look at what the silly fundies are doing now" but seemed to have some merit in the following replies. I was even tempted to reply seeing as how I was raised in Texas in a heavy fundamentalist area where even some of my high school teachers pushed a creationist belief.

Sorry Kazelee, you're not always going to get a two sided discussion going on all issues. It's outstanding for the discussion when it can happen. However, I don't think there are many creationists that are learning Japanese (ergo be likely to be on this forum) outside of missionaries.

Nukemarine Wrote:One thing about this forum is more often than not even a thread started as a joke or some minor pop art related theme can quickly devolve into a serious discussion much to the dismay of the OP.

Yeah, I thought the Creation Museum thread was started as more of a "Look at what the silly fundies are doing now" but seemed to have some merit in the following replies. I was even tempted to reply seeing as how I was raised in Texas in a heavy fundamentalist area where even some of my high school teachers pushed a creationist belief.

Sorry Kazelee, you're not always going to get a two sided discussion going on all issues. It's outstanding for the discussion when it can happen. However, I don't think there are many creationists that are learning Japanese (ergo be likely to be on this forum) outside of missionaries.

Same here, I remembered then forgot to check on that Creation Museum thread to see if it developed on the theme of institutions and critical thought and suchlike, but it was closed... which was weird till I thought kazelee was going to open it again anyway and maybe didn't feel like digging through it, possibly thinking after all of the various lounge links on similar topics, it just wasn't worth it, and I forgot about it till I saw complaints, so I decided to argue for being 'meh' about it all.

For those surprised at how common creationism is in America, statistics from the whole world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Views_...lution.svg

and Canada:

A 2008 Canadian poll revealed that "58 percent accept evolution, while 22 percent think that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years."[114]

Australia:

2009 Nielsen poll showed that almost a quarter of Australians believe "the biblical account of human origins" over the Darwinian account. Forty-two percent believe in a "wholly scientific" explanation for the origins of life, while 32 percent believe in an evolutionary process "guided by God".[113]

UK:

A 2006 poll on the "origin and development of life" asked participants to choose between three different perspectives on the origin of life: 22% chose creationism, 17% opted for intelligent design, 48% selected evolutionary theory, and the rest did not know.[125][126]