Anyone else here an attorney or in school to be one? I always ask in every community I join. It seems there is a conspicuous lack of my legal brethren who are also studying Japanese.

I always find that studying another language (Japanese is my 3rd non-native), helps me to hone and improve my native language, especially in a professional setting. Anyone else have this experience? And yes, that was a cover topic in case the lawyer question illicits nothing but crickets in response...

edit: OK I'll bite on the cover topic. I actually find it the other way round - I've always been very keen on my native language and since childhood have had an unusually broad vocabulary. When learning other related languages, or trying to understand them, this has really helped. For example, I can usually understand written spanish, croatian, german, italian etc. I've never learned them, but often rare words in English are similar to equivalent common words in other related languages.

Blahah Wrote:

edit: OK I'll bit on the cover topic. I actually find it the other way round - I've always been very keen on my native language and since childhood have had an unusually broad vocabulary. When learning other related languages, or trying to understand them, this has really helped. For example, I can usually understand written spanish, croatian, german, italian etc. I've never learned them, but often rare words in English are similar to equivalent common words in other related languages.

And here I was just about to post poking you for not at least trying on the cover topic. I agree with your edit though. Greek was so much easier because of my early fascination with classical (read more than 100 years old) literature as a child and through high school. Spainish was the same way. Greek also helps me dramatically to understand Japanese. The grammar patterns (leaving the particles aside) are very similar in ancient Greek.

@ icecream - i'm sure my cat would come running to. she loves to kill crickets, much to the chagrin of my wife who thinks its terribly bad luck.

Just graduated law school and am studying for the July bar right now. Well, apparently not *right* now, but in a few minutes. Language study has been my stress release and excuse not to study law. My Chinese level has gone way up and am just now returning to study Japanese. One side effect of all this study is that my ability to rote memorize black letter law has improved.

hobofat Wrote:Just graduated law school and am studying for the July bar right now. Well, apparently not *right* now, but in a few minutes. Language study has been my stress release and excuse not to study law. My Chinese level has gone way up and am just now returning to study Japanese. One side effect of all this study is that my ability to rote memorize black letter law has improved.

I proctor the bar in my state, so I wish you well

I have played two Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney games, so I feel I'm qualified to offer people legal consultation.

I notice that as I go through RTK, my English writing skills go down because I keep switching between strokes and swirly curvy letters.

BoccKob Wrote:I have played two Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney games, so I feel I'm qualified to offer people legal consultation.

I cannot express to you how much I loathe those games. I feel the same way watching law shows on TV. I just cringe at the wrongness of it all...

astrangerhere Wrote:

BoccKob Wrote:I have played two Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney games, so I feel I'm qualified to offer people legal consultation.

I cannot express to you how much I loathe those games. I feel the same way watching law shows on TV. I just cringe at the wrongness of it all...

I've always wondered about Law and Order shows. Those shows are just probably made more dramatic for entertainment. I'm sure some things in the show realistic at times but the rest not sure.

astrangerhere Wrote:

BoccKob Wrote:I have played two Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney games, so I feel I'm qualified to offer people legal consultation.

I cannot express to you how much I loathe those games. I feel the same way watching law shows on TV. I just cringe at the wrongness of it all...

I think that's true of most professionals that must see their profession marred in some way by an untrained actor. It's a (rare) sigh of relief when you see one get it right.

For me, I could not stomach a full episode of JAG due to almost any military aspect of it on top of the legal lunacies it tried to portray.

Phoenix Wright is so far removed from reality though that I can't imagine it being particularly offensive. It's not even trying to be serious. JAG and L&O on the other hand...

I've never really heard of lawyer jokes.....or maybe I just wasn't paying attention to them

What about CSI? They go, "ZOOM! ENHANCE!" and solve crimes.

astrangerhere Wrote:

BoccKob Wrote:I have played two Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney games, so I feel I'm qualified to offer people legal consultation.

I cannot express to you how much I loathe those games. I feel the same way watching law shows on TV. I just cringe at the wrongness of it all...

Much of it is a satirical take on the real Japanese law system that pretty much everyone in the know agree needs some major improvements, and like ninetimes said they're not trying to fake an air of authenticity. I mean, when you "win" a case there's confetti being thrown in the courtroom, I think that's one of the most defining things for Phoenix Wright (have you seen the statistics? "not guilty" IS that rare)

If you just take it for what it is, an investigation game series within a lawyer setting with over-the-top characters then it's fun, I mean even the super-rushed explanations that are so obviously impossible can make you laugh if you're just not too serious about it.

I don't think that lawyers studying Japanese is that unusual, I recently chatted with a Brazilian lawyer who's been studying the language for a long time, and I remember reading a few stories from lawyers discussing their Japanese learning However, you have to remember that you're probably so used to meeting lawyers every day that it affects how many Japanese-studying lawyers you expect to meet... And what difference does it even make? Is it just a case of wanting to see others like you who are also studying Japanese?

I've been finding that studying Japanese has changed the way I express myself in my own language to become more co-operative and less dominating (feminine characteristics hooo). Also, I'd say I have an even more laid-back style of communicating in everyday conversations because I've realized how much most people worry about sounding "smart" and that that really isn't worth anything. In general, I've definitely become more aware of the way I say things, not in an anxious way, but in a good way that makes me more able to control it and really express what I mean, especially emotionally.
Professionally I don't know, I've always been good at speaking/writing "eloquently" if I want to, but I'd say I've become more creative in that I have a better feel for when to mix it with more informal speech to get the desired effect.

I guess that's really it, I've come to respect control if anything. Not "big" words, not sounding like you've never read a book, but the ability to know when to use what from your current range.

Smackle: http://nedroidcomics.livejournal.com/265654.html

Surreal Wrote:And what difference does it even make? Is it just a case of wanting to see others like you who are also studying Japanese?

It's a life-consuming profession, so it's nice to meet others within it who share an interest in studying Japanese.

Do armchair-lawyers qualify?

Nukemarine Wrote:

astrangerhere Wrote:

BoccKob Wrote:I have played two Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney games, so I feel I'm qualified to offer people legal consultation.

I cannot express to you how much I loathe those games. I feel the same way watching law shows on TV. I just cringe at the wrongness of it all...

I think that's true of most professionals that must see their profession marred in some way by an untrained actor. It's a (rare) sigh of relief when you see one get it right.

For me, I could not stomach a full episode of JAG due to almost any military aspect of it on top of the legal lunacies it tried to portray.

Or the episode of CSI where a girl "creates a GUI in Visual Basic to find an IP" of a murderer....

astrangerhere Wrote:Anyone else here an attorney or in school to be one? I always ask in every community I join. It seems there is a conspicuous lack of my legal brethren who are also studying Japanese.

I always find that studying another language (Japanese is my 3rd non-native), helps me to hone and improve my native language, especially in a professional setting. Anyone else have this experience? And yes, that was a cover topic in case the lawyer question illicits nothing but crickets in response...

On schedule to obtain my bachelor in (Dutch) Law next month. Don't know if I will become a lawyer though. I also study physics (will obtain my bachelor in 2 months or something), so maybe I will head in that direction. But I can see myself working in the legal business on a European level, reason why I'm also studying French and Spanish atm.
Don't know if studying Japanese is helping improve my native language (Dutch). The reason is probably that I'm studying Japanese in English. Helping to improve my English though I do contemplate language in general more and I notice more how I use language.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Do armchair-lawyers qualify?

No.

hobofat Wrote:

Surreal Wrote:And what difference does it even make? Is it just a case of wanting to see others like you who are also studying Japanese?

It's a life-consuming profession, so it's nice to meet others within it who share an interest in studying Japanese.

Why? I recently met a guy who's studying in the same field as I am and I was like "cool" but it wasn't much more than that. I mean, we have two common interests. Yay? Maybe it's because I don't identify myself as much out of what I have chosen to work with, I don't know.

Surreal Wrote:

hobofat Wrote:

Surreal Wrote:And what difference does it even make? Is it just a case of wanting to see others like you who are also studying Japanese?

It's a life-consuming profession, so it's nice to meet others within it who share an interest in studying Japanese.

Why? I recently met a guy who's studying in the same field as I am and I was like "cool" but it wasn't much more than that. I mean, we have two common interests. Yay? Maybe it's because I don't identify myself as much out of what I have chosen to work with, I don't know.

@ hobofat - i agree with the life-consuming profession bit.

@ surreal - it doesn't, i suppose make any real difference, just nice to find other attorneys. put more than one of us in a room and we cannot help but talk shop. I had a professor in law school tell me once that it wasnt that hard to learn how to think like a lawyer, but it was nearly impossible, once done, to re-learn how to think like a human. I think that sort of mindset breeds a special kind of companionship. I imagine doctors who have all survived medical school together also have the same sort of bond.

Also, it makes no difference, but it is nice to know that when, for example, half the forum is arguing in threads about GPL and GNU licenses that there is someone else who shares a similar expertise to me that I can drop an line and discuss it on a more indepth legal level with. Also, in spite of my wife swearing that I don't play well with others, I was just trying to be, you know, friendly.

Those Mutant Frog Travelogue people are lawyers or something. Or maybe just one of them. (http://mutantfrog.com)

astrangerhere Wrote:@ surreal - it doesn't, i suppose make any real difference, just nice to find other attorneys. put more than one of us in a room and we cannot help but talk shop. I had a professor in law school tell me once that it wasnt that hard to learn how to think like a lawyer, but it was nearly impossible, once done, to re-learn how to think like a human. I think that sort of mindset breeds a special kind of companionship. I imagine doctors who have all survived medical school together also have the same sort of bond.

Also, it makes no difference, but it is nice to know that when, for example, half the forum is arguing in threads about GPL and GNU licenses that there is someone else who shares a similar expertise to me that I can drop an line and discuss it on a more indepth legal level with. Also, in spite of my wife swearing that I don't play well with others, I was just trying to be, you know, friendly.

Alright, that makes sense. I was mostly just wondering... At the same time, while I haven't studied law, I do believe I've acquired many different mindsets and I don't think being stuck in one is unavoidable.

You mention doctors, my father has been working as a doctor for a very long time and one of the things he dislikes the most is doctors that just get so stuck in the "doctor role" that they can't relate very well to their patients and understand how they see it. I'd imagine you know a lot of lawyers who never really understand their clients and only treat them as part of cases, not as persons. Most of the long-lasting friends he has had throughout his life aren't in the field either(though he does have some, of course), probably because he has so many other things he wants to talk about that aren't medical stuff and again, if you merely think of it in terms of % of population, the chance that he'd make a friend that also works in the same field vs one who's not is considerably smaller.

As for me, I like talking to people from other fields precisely because I enjoy seeing the microcosms I find and exploring different ways to think, often I find it helps me understand what I'm doing better as I can see it from a different point of view. In fact, I have a friend who's studying law and discuss certain aspects of it with him now and then.

Of course, I'm not trying to say that you, my father or myself is Right or Wrong, just trying to explain why I asked. Reading it again, I realize it sounded a bit demeaning, but I was genuinely curious.

Surreal Wrote:Most of the long-lasting friends he has had throughout his life aren't in the field either...

My wife wasn't in the legal field when I met her, does that count?

astrangerhere Wrote:

BoccKob Wrote:I have played two Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney games, so I feel I'm qualified to offer people legal consultation.

I cannot express to you how much I loathe those games. I feel the same way watching law shows on TV. I just cringe at the wrongness of it all...

Getting upset about Phoenix Wright for its inaccurate portrayal of the legal system is like getting upset about Super Mario Brothers for its inaccurate portrayal of the plumbing profession. It's not supposed to be realistic.

Never mind the plumbing profession, Mario Brothers has polluted education about fungal biology for generations to come! Mushrooms don't wear waistcoats! http://xerto.free.fr/toad1.jpg