"Japanese Language Proficiency Test: Grammar Exercises Level 3 (Kanzen Masutaa)"
This book is recommended, yeah?
This book is recommended, yeah?
2010-11-22, 4:42 pm
TheVinster Wrote:"Japanese Language Proficiency Test: Grammar Exercises Level 3 (Kanzen Masutaa)"Is the L3 one the same sort of very-minimal-explanations as the L2 book? Judging by L2, I would recommend reserving the KM series for revision and testing. It covers a lot of points, but the explanations are far too minimal to use them as your primary source of grammar IMHO. As rich_f says, I think they work quite well as a JPLT class review text (or the self-study equivalent). So it depends what you wanted the book for, and whether the L3 differs at all from L2...
This book is recommended, yeah?
2010-11-22, 5:12 pm
pm215 Wrote:How about "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" then?TheVinster Wrote:"Japanese Language Proficiency Test: Grammar Exercises Level 3 (Kanzen Masutaa)"Is the L3 one the same sort of very-minimal-explanations as the L2 book? Judging by L2, I would recommend reserving the KM series for revision and testing. It covers a lot of points, but the explanations are far too minimal to use them as your primary source of grammar IMHO. As rich_f says, I think they work quite well as a JPLT class review text (or the self-study equivalent). So it depends what you wanted the book for, and whether the L3 differs at all from L2...
This book is recommended, yeah?
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2010-11-22, 8:04 pm
ADoBJG is an excellent series if you want in-depth explanations of grammar in English, with two caveats:
1. It's expensive.
2. It doesn't cover a lot of stuff on the JLPT N2. So eventually you're going to run into problems with the series letting you down if you're taking the JLPT.
But if you don't care about the JLPT, you can learn a heck of a lot about Japanese Grammar. They're excellent books.
As for KM3, it's a pretty good practice book, but if you're taking N4 or N3, you need to get a book designed for N4 or N3. KM3 covers the new N4... sort of. There are a ton of books out there that will help you get better, it all depends on what you want to do, and where you are, skill-wise.
1. It's expensive.
2. It doesn't cover a lot of stuff on the JLPT N2. So eventually you're going to run into problems with the series letting you down if you're taking the JLPT.
But if you don't care about the JLPT, you can learn a heck of a lot about Japanese Grammar. They're excellent books.
As for KM3, it's a pretty good practice book, but if you're taking N4 or N3, you need to get a book designed for N4 or N3. KM3 covers the new N4... sort of. There are a ton of books out there that will help you get better, it all depends on what you want to do, and where you are, skill-wise.
2010-11-22, 9:14 pm
TheVinster Wrote:"Japanese Language Proficiency Test: Grammar Exercises Level 3 (Kanzen Masutaa)"yep
This book is recommended, yeah?
It's basically a checklist of the grammar for the old JLPT3 (N4) test with some questions. It's great to check your progress but I wouldn't want to be learning grammar from it.
2010-12-13, 7:14 pm
So, hum. Tobira still hasn't even arrived yet and I'm almost finished with AIAIJ, 2 more weeks and I'll have all the grammar/vocab known. I'm going to finish grammar first and then will learn the vocabulary (from lesson 7 +) and practice listening skills.
After that I'll use tobira to review everything again.
So, after AIAIJ, where should I go? Any textbooks you know? There's another one from Japan Times, "Authentic japanese, progressing from intermediate to advanced japanese" or something like that.
Also, you probably have already said it, but do you really recommend "donna toki dou tsukau"? Does it have any practice exercises?
I have these 2 books (and the workbook of the former) in my basket, but I'm willing to listen to more opinions, of course. I have to buy them soon because it takes so much time for them to arrive, and in the end of January until March I will have vacations and want to make use of that time to improve my japanese.
Also, is there any book for conversational skills? If that's possible.
After that I'll use tobira to review everything again.
So, after AIAIJ, where should I go? Any textbooks you know? There's another one from Japan Times, "Authentic japanese, progressing from intermediate to advanced japanese" or something like that.
Also, you probably have already said it, but do you really recommend "donna toki dou tsukau"? Does it have any practice exercises?
I have these 2 books (and the workbook of the former) in my basket, but I'm willing to listen to more opinions, of course. I have to buy them soon because it takes so much time for them to arrive, and in the end of January until March I will have vacations and want to make use of that time to improve my japanese.
Also, is there any book for conversational skills? If that's possible.
2010-12-13, 8:02 pm
which series is more comprehensive in terms of amount of stuff covered? (not in terms of how good the explanations are, but in sheer quantitative terms of how many different grammatical items are introduced): DO_JG, or the Kanzen Master series?
2010-12-13, 8:28 pm
vinniram Wrote:which series is more comprehensive in terms of amount of stuff covered? (not in terms of how good the explanations are, but in sheer quantitative terms of how many different grammatical items are introduced): DO_JG, or the Kanzen Master series?DO_JGって何？ I'm gonna buy Kanzen master 2 eventually because I think it's awesome for my train trips and lunch breaks.
How do you guys use donna toki dou tsukau? I'm going to buy the newest version (updated with jlpt 1-5)
2010-12-13, 8:53 pm
@vinniram: Kanzen Master covers more "stuff," but in very little detail. DOJG goes into amazing detail, but misses some important stuff.
@Carolina: The "donna toki" 500 book covers more "stuff," and it has a workbook, but it's just grammar, and it's just grammar expressions. It covers stuff all the way to the old JLPT 1級. Each chapter covers stuff by function, which can really get confusing after a while, to be honest. (At least it does for me.) After the 5th or 6th time expression in a row, I can't tell them apart anymore. (I used a similar style book to review for the N2, and it almost broke me.)
The workbook exercises start a sentence off for you, and you have to make up the rest of it on your own. It's useful if you have a good grip on the grammar, not so much if you don't.
The Authentic Japanese book also has a workbook which is slightly more varied, but you still have to make up a lot of stuff on your own. And it has a lot more exercises in the textbook with reading exercises, too. It covers vocab in a "we're introducing new vocab, figure it out yourself" kind of way, which is fine, because you're moving up in ability at this point.
One downside-- the 2CDs are an extra 5,000 yen. No idea what you get on them, other than someone reading stuff out loud. I never bought them. That's more than the cost of the 2 books.
I'd say it will get you to somewhere between N2 and N1 on the JLPT scale. I saw a lot of stuff in KM2 (the old one) in it, and a lot of stuff I've never seen before.
If you liked AIAIJ, then I'd do the Authentic Japanese book-- it's more of the same, but covering a lot of different stuff with a lot of practice work.
I have to admit that I like the Authentic Japanese book, because it has reading selections in it to keep reading skills going. That's pretty important if you want to do the new JLPT.
EDIT: DOJG--> A Dictionary of Basic/Intermediate/Advance Japanese Grammar
@Carolina: The "donna toki" 500 book covers more "stuff," and it has a workbook, but it's just grammar, and it's just grammar expressions. It covers stuff all the way to the old JLPT 1級. Each chapter covers stuff by function, which can really get confusing after a while, to be honest. (At least it does for me.) After the 5th or 6th time expression in a row, I can't tell them apart anymore. (I used a similar style book to review for the N2, and it almost broke me.)
The workbook exercises start a sentence off for you, and you have to make up the rest of it on your own. It's useful if you have a good grip on the grammar, not so much if you don't.
The Authentic Japanese book also has a workbook which is slightly more varied, but you still have to make up a lot of stuff on your own. And it has a lot more exercises in the textbook with reading exercises, too. It covers vocab in a "we're introducing new vocab, figure it out yourself" kind of way, which is fine, because you're moving up in ability at this point.
One downside-- the 2CDs are an extra 5,000 yen. No idea what you get on them, other than someone reading stuff out loud. I never bought them. That's more than the cost of the 2 books.
I'd say it will get you to somewhere between N2 and N1 on the JLPT scale. I saw a lot of stuff in KM2 (the old one) in it, and a lot of stuff I've never seen before.
If you liked AIAIJ, then I'd do the Authentic Japanese book-- it's more of the same, but covering a lot of different stuff with a lot of practice work.
I have to admit that I like the Authentic Japanese book, because it has reading selections in it to keep reading skills going. That's pretty important if you want to do the new JLPT.
EDIT: DOJG--> A Dictionary of Basic/Intermediate/Advance Japanese Grammar
Edited: 2010-12-13, 8:54 pm
2010-12-14, 3:42 am
rich_f Wrote:The Authentic Japanese book also has a workbook which is slightly more varied, but you still have to make up a lot of stuff on your own. And it has a lot more exercises in the textbook with reading exercises, too. It covers vocab in a "we're introducing new vocab, figure it out yourself" kind of way, which is fine, because you're moving up in ability at this point.Then I think Donna Toki will wait for a while. I'll go foz Kanzen Master instead. Do you know of any books like Kanzen master, but with english translations (other than Donna toki). I actually already bought one,
One downside-- the 2CDs are an extra 5,000 yen. No idea what you get on them, other than someone reading stuff out loud. I never bought them. That's more than the cost of the 2 books.
I'd say it will get you to somewhere between N2 and N1 on the JLPT scale. I saw a lot of stuff in KM2 (the old one) in it, and a lot of stuff I've never seen before.
If you liked AIAIJ, then I'd do the Authentic Japanese book-- it's more of the same, but covering a lot of different stuff with a lot of practice work.
I have to admit that I like the Authentic Japanese book, because it has reading selections in it to keep reading skills going. That's pretty important if you want to do the new JLPT.
I will not buy the CD's, like you said they cost more than the 2 books together, I honestly don't understand why lol. It would be so good if they just came along with the textbook like with AIAIJ... genki Cd's were easy to find online, but the AJ ones...
I'm now going through AIAIJ a little fast, but after lesson 12 (start it today) I will start going back to read the texts and listen more carefully to the CD's and learn the vocabulary by hand and then put it into anki. I just wish AIAIJ had more exercices, because these were you have to fill the rest of the sentence are not really my favorites.
I'm just waiting for Tobira and nihongo 500 mon to arrive so that I can order the rest (christmas present from me to myself).
Do you know of any good keigo textbooks?
Thanks!
2010-12-14, 11:53 am
The main problem I had with Kanzen Master is that by itself it wasn't enough for me to learn the grammar points. It's fine for reviewing stuff, but if you don't know the stuff coming in, the explanations are *really* short (1 sentence short), you get 3-5 example sentences, and that's pretty much it.
You get multiple-choice exercises at the end of each chapter, which are modeled after the *old* JLPT 2級, but didn't really help that much getting ready for the N2. (The N2 grammar is trickier, and requires a better grasp of it, I think, than something like Kanzen Master alone can give you.)
What Kanzen Master does offer is a good pattern of grammar points to study... with other sources. My problem with it was that sometimes I'd be confused by one of its explanations, and I'd have to look through a couple of different books to find a good explanation of it. The DOBJG series doesn't cover everything in KM, so you need a couple of extra grammar dictionaries/resources, which is frustrating. I wound up using the どんな時 grammar dictionary some (although it suffers from the same terseness), 日本語文庫辞典 sometimes, and for simpler example sentences, and further explanations, I used 45日間で基礎からわからる日本語能力試験対策2級文法 (Long title, I know.) I think there's an N2 version of it out now.
Between those 3, I managed to make it through okay, but it wasn't perfect.
For keigo... I never got around to it. It's on my list of "things to do."
You get multiple-choice exercises at the end of each chapter, which are modeled after the *old* JLPT 2級, but didn't really help that much getting ready for the N2. (The N2 grammar is trickier, and requires a better grasp of it, I think, than something like Kanzen Master alone can give you.)
What Kanzen Master does offer is a good pattern of grammar points to study... with other sources. My problem with it was that sometimes I'd be confused by one of its explanations, and I'd have to look through a couple of different books to find a good explanation of it. The DOBJG series doesn't cover everything in KM, so you need a couple of extra grammar dictionaries/resources, which is frustrating. I wound up using the どんな時 grammar dictionary some (although it suffers from the same terseness), 日本語文庫辞典 sometimes, and for simpler example sentences, and further explanations, I used 45日間で基礎からわからる日本語能力試験対策2級文法 (Long title, I know.) I think there's an N2 version of it out now.
Between those 3, I managed to make it through okay, but it wasn't perfect.
For keigo... I never got around to it. It's on my list of "things to do."
2010-12-24, 7:35 pm
Thanks! 
I ordered a few textbooks.
Chukyu Kara Jyokyu E No Nihongo - Authentic Japanese: Progressing From Intermediate To Advanced + textbook
Jitsuryoku Up Nihongo Noryoku Shiken/ Level 1&2 Gram & Voc/CD - Prep Course For The Jlpt, Level 1&2 Gram & Voc/CD
Nihongo Bunpo Enshu-Formal Expression - Formal Expression
Nihongo Bunpo Enshu -Modality, Shujoshi
sorry for the romaji, it's how it's written on the site and I just copy pasted.
Now.
I have to practice my reading skills, I'm too slow. And I also want to gain more vocabulary (reading + anki).
Is there any series of textbooks divided by JLPT level with interesting stuff to read? And not those boring JLPTish texts. With interesting stuff I mean something like novels. I really want to read stuff that uses the grammar I've been learning.
If you know any website for that purpose would be great too :p
I need to decide one textbook for reading skills fast because I ordered a few textbooks and one of them was not in stock (only in 2 weeks) and that way the yomimono book could be sent at the same time as that one that.
Thanks for the help!
I ordered a few textbooks.
Chukyu Kara Jyokyu E No Nihongo - Authentic Japanese: Progressing From Intermediate To Advanced + textbook
Jitsuryoku Up Nihongo Noryoku Shiken/ Level 1&2 Gram & Voc/CD - Prep Course For The Jlpt, Level 1&2 Gram & Voc/CD
Nihongo Bunpo Enshu-Formal Expression - Formal Expression
Nihongo Bunpo Enshu -Modality, Shujoshi
sorry for the romaji, it's how it's written on the site and I just copy pasted.
Now.
I have to practice my reading skills, I'm too slow. And I also want to gain more vocabulary (reading + anki).
Is there any series of textbooks divided by JLPT level with interesting stuff to read? And not those boring JLPTish texts. With interesting stuff I mean something like novels. I really want to read stuff that uses the grammar I've been learning.
If you know any website for that purpose would be great too :p
I need to decide one textbook for reading skills fast because I ordered a few textbooks and one of them was not in stock (only in 2 weeks) and that way the yomimono book could be sent at the same time as that one that.
Thanks for the help!
2010-12-25, 5:14 pm
The best way I know of is to read newspapers, especially the kids' sections, mark all of the vocab you don't know, and learn it. Copy/paste the text of the article and save it, then re-read it after you've learned the vocab a few weeks later, to see how far you've progressed.
2010-12-26, 6:36 pm
Before I buy "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" off of one of the Amazon sellers for $40-50, is there any place I can find it cheaper? I'm not sure where else to look, but I really don't want to pay so much for a single grammar book. Appreciate any help you can provide, thanks.
2010-12-26, 7:15 pm
TheVinster Wrote:Before I buy "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" off of one of the Amazon sellers for $40-50, is there any place I can find it cheaper? I'm not sure where else to look, but I really don't want to pay so much for a single grammar book. Appreciate any help you can provide, thanks.I looked on amazon and saw that new they are going for $52 and used starts at $37
I use thejapanshop.com ( listed for 43.50, located in the US and provide free US shipping on orders over $25 ) as well as whiterabbitpress.com ( listed for $39.00 however shipping to the US costs 9.90 plus it takes 2-4 weeks to recieve )
I'd go with thejapanshop.com and get a new book rather than used, and save on shipping, but one thing I can say, the grammar book is DEFINITELY worth the money, I have all 3
2010-12-27, 10:29 am
Dustin_Calgary Wrote:Thanks, I'll buy it from there unless anybody else here finds a better offer before I go through with it. Seems like the best one though.TheVinster Wrote:Before I buy "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" off of one of the Amazon sellers for $40-50, is there any place I can find it cheaper? I'm not sure where else to look, but I really don't want to pay so much for a single grammar book. Appreciate any help you can provide, thanks.I looked on amazon and saw that new they are going for $52 and used starts at $37
I use thejapanshop.com ( listed for 43.50, located in the US and provide free US shipping on orders over $25 ) as well as whiterabbitpress.com ( listed for $39.00 however shipping to the US costs 9.90 plus it takes 2-4 weeks to recieve )
I'd go with thejapanshop.com and get a new book rather than used, and save on shipping, but one thing I can say, the grammar book is DEFINITELY worth the money, I have all 3
2010-12-29, 6:33 pm
Here they are, they finally arrived! 
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GwaZRNnPVVA/TR...ezento.jpg
I already finished all the grammar on AIAIJ, I still have to listen to the CDs and remember the vocab (though I've been focusing on jlpt vocab lists laterly, but I need to know there words in order to understand what's being said in the cds so...)
After that I'm going to start Tobira to consolidate both grammar and vocab and then I'll start the Japan Times joukyuu no nihongo textbook.
I also am studying a 2kyuu bunpou textbook 「日本語そまとめ問題集２級」, which I really like except for some grammar points that are not really clear. I like it because it presents 3/4 grammar points a day (for 6 weeks, this is my 10th day so far) with a few jlptish exercises. Hopefully when I start cramming for the 2 kyuu (hopefully, in no more than 2 months I hope) I will already have some grammar knowledge.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GwaZRNnPVVA/TR...ezento.jpg
I already finished all the grammar on AIAIJ, I still have to listen to the CDs and remember the vocab (though I've been focusing on jlpt vocab lists laterly, but I need to know there words in order to understand what's being said in the cds so...)
After that I'm going to start Tobira to consolidate both grammar and vocab and then I'll start the Japan Times joukyuu no nihongo textbook.
I also am studying a 2kyuu bunpou textbook 「日本語そまとめ問題集２級」, which I really like except for some grammar points that are not really clear. I like it because it presents 3/4 grammar points a day (for 6 weeks, this is my 10th day so far) with a few jlptish exercises. Hopefully when I start cramming for the 2 kyuu (hopefully, in no more than 2 months I hope) I will already have some grammar knowledge.
2011-01-27, 6:35 pm
Is there any JLPT oriented textbook for vocab with CDs for listening practice? I feel I'm learning a lot of new words (from lists) but as I don't use them other than in anki, I have troubles recognizing words I already know when I listen to them.
just a few minutes ago I listened to 工場, the sound was really familiar, but only after quite some seconds I recalled the meaning.
btw, I'm already studying tobira (lesson 9 starting tomorrow). It's quite different from what I was used to, my approach is to listen to the audio, memorize the vocab and just read the grammar (and add into anki of course). I review the grammar from previous lessons on a daily basis and will continue doing it after finishing the book (hoepefully by the end of next week).
Tobira is good, it has more grammar points than AIAIJ but lacks in exercises too. And I don't like the ones it has (for grammar, downloadable on their site). The ones in the book about the texts are really easy and I'll do them on a slow pace when I'm finished with the rest.
After this textbook I'll review AIAIJ one more time and then will move to the progressing japanese or wtv from japan times. Can't wait.
I'm also studying soumatome 2kyuu bunpou. And got printed recently the equivalents for vocab and dokkai so I'll start the vocab one soon.
just a few minutes ago I listened to 工場, the sound was really familiar, but only after quite some seconds I recalled the meaning.
btw, I'm already studying tobira (lesson 9 starting tomorrow). It's quite different from what I was used to, my approach is to listen to the audio, memorize the vocab and just read the grammar (and add into anki of course). I review the grammar from previous lessons on a daily basis and will continue doing it after finishing the book (hoepefully by the end of next week).
Tobira is good, it has more grammar points than AIAIJ but lacks in exercises too. And I don't like the ones it has (for grammar, downloadable on their site). The ones in the book about the texts are really easy and I'll do them on a slow pace when I'm finished with the rest.
After this textbook I'll review AIAIJ one more time and then will move to the progressing japanese or wtv from japan times. Can't wait.
I'm also studying soumatome 2kyuu bunpou. And got printed recently the equivalents for vocab and dokkai so I'll start the vocab one soon.
2011-01-27, 6:49 pm
@CarolinaGC
How are you liking Tobira as a follow-up to IAIJ
I am working through JFE atm, and am hoping to bust into IAIJ soon. I recently recieved Tobira for some work I did and I hope it is a good follow-up / consolidation book.
Are you finding you are using the online media portion much?
How are you liking Tobira as a follow-up to IAIJ
I am working through JFE atm, and am hoping to bust into IAIJ soon. I recently recieved Tobira for some work I did and I hope it is a good follow-up / consolidation book.
Are you finding you are using the online media portion much?
2011-01-27, 7:11 pm
I use the audio and watch videos. The exercises I'll try to do them someday, though I think they're not really worth the trouble.
Between both textbooks, I recognize that tobira as more grammar, but all in all I like AIAIJ the most, probably because I'm loyal to japan times and because even though AIAIJ lacks in exercises, the ones it has are more useful than the ones in tobira imo. Also, I don't like the audio from tobira, I don't like the voices, particularly one from a girl...and they could speak a little faster too...
It's a great textbook anyway, but the lack of (many) exercises is a minus.
I'm doing it in a fast pace because as I finished AIAIJ I know almost everything there, which is good because I can review.
Between both textbooks, I recognize that tobira as more grammar, but all in all I like AIAIJ the most, probably because I'm loyal to japan times and because even though AIAIJ lacks in exercises, the ones it has are more useful than the ones in tobira imo. Also, I don't like the audio from tobira, I don't like the voices, particularly one from a girl...and they could speak a little faster too...
It's a great textbook anyway, but the lack of (many) exercises is a minus.
I'm doing it in a fast pace because as I finished AIAIJ I know almost everything there, which is good because I can review.