A pearl that I found. The beginning is without video, listen closely.

4.31 is a great joke But that´s what´s going on...

Some is alarmist, some is newage-y, and it really bothered me how he kept saying "cutting edge of human evolution."

Anyway, it's no secret that our apathy is the greatest weapon against us.

There shall be no uprising in places like the US against the rich anytime soon. There are those that believe the rich shouldn't be touched, because they are the "hardest workers" and belong on their thrones.

(9/11 was an inside job! Wake up sheeple!)

Smackle Wrote:There are those that believe the rich shouldn't be touched, because they are the "hardest workers" and belong on their thrones.

You make it sound like its not true. Fortune 500 CEOS work far longer, and far more dilligently than most of us can. As in 12 hour days, 7 days a week with the occasional holiday. The average worker moans if they have to work a few hours overtime. I know it's trendy to say 'oh the workers, toiling in the wheat fields, abused by their corporate masters', but today it's really the complete opposite. Only the CEOs don't moan.

It's the case on the small scale also, I don't know any organisation whos hardest worker isn't the boss.

lol

The true top of the corporate ladder is being the CEO's wife, or mistress.

lagwagon555 Wrote:

Smackle Wrote:There are those that believe the rich shouldn't be touched, because they are the "hardest workers" and belong on their thrones.

You make it sound like its not true. Fortune 500 CEOS work far longer, and far more dilligently than most of us can. As in 12 hour days, 7 days a week with the occasional holiday. The average worker moans if they have to work a few hours overtime. I know it's trendy to say 'oh the workers, toiling in the wheat fields, abused by their corporate masters', but today it's really the complete opposite. Only the CEOs don't moan.

It's the case on the small scale also, I don't know any organisation whos hardest worker isn't the boss.

Your little insight only applies to the first-world, where minimum wage and overtime exist. I also know plenty of immigrants here in the USA who work under the table for more that 12 hours per day, seven days a week. They make below minimum wage. CEO's simply cheat harder than everyone else. I don't see a reason to hate them though, it is the American dream to become rich and powerful. But saying they work harder than the average man is laughable.

bodhisamaya Wrote:The true top of the corporate ladder is being the CEO's wife, or mistress.

I'd rather be the CEO's son.

Quote:It's the case on the small scale also, I don't know any organisation whos hardest worker isn't the boss.

While in some situations this is true, perhaps even a majority, I can also tell you, from years of personal experience in the field in many companies, that secretaries and personal assistants often work considerably longer/harder than their supervisor does.

The world (at least, the working one) is not, as it turns out, "fair." We make do!

lagwagon555 Wrote:The average worker moans if they have to work a few hours overtime.

This expression applies to teenagers and lazy people who haven't ever held a job for more than 3 months. These are the below/sub average employees, not average.

The average worker moans when they don't get "paid" for their overtime. In every job I've worked people gunned for overtime. It's their bread and butter. When the employer says it can't compensate then the whining starts. If they don't want to work the overtime, they're usually under 20.

stehr Wrote:Your little insight only applies to the first-world, where minimum wage and overtime exist. I also know plenty of immigrants here in the USA who work under the table for more that 12 hours per day, seven days a week. They make below minimum wage. CEO's simply cheat harder than everyone else. I don't see a reason to hate them though, it is the American dream to become rich and powerful. But saying they work harder than the average man is laughable.

I lived in the developing world (Bahrain, albeit as the son of a well-of expatriate) for a few months, and I know people who employed house maids from the phillippines. No minimum wage, long hours, boring job. I made friends with a man who stood on the pavement for 10 hours a day selling newspapers. Of course, these people are very hard workers, but they can't hold a candle to a CEO.

I pulled 10 hours out of nowhere, if you'd google it, the first result for for the CEO of Tyco, who works 16 hour days. But the hours aren't the point. It's how difficult the task was. I couldn't sell papers for 17 hours a day and say I was working harder than him. The difficulty of running a company is such that your average man couldn't last a day as a CEO, let alone a week. Whereas a CEO could do the work of an average man as if he were taking a holiday. Of course, the CEO gets paid alot more, but that's got nothing to do with who's working harder.

I can't believe I'm taking time to type this stuff.

@lagwagon - Are you being serious?

lagwagon555 Wrote:I can't believe I'm taking time to type this stuff.

Believe me, the feeling is mutual.

lagwagon555 Wrote:The difficulty of running a company is such that your average man couldn't last a day as a CEO, let alone a week.

Interesting. He wouldn't last a day if just thrown into the job and expected to perform at the same level as other CEOs. He'd burn out. The CEO didn't just start being a CEO either. There's a gradual increase of work and responsibility. Given enough time to acclimate himself, however, there's no reason why the average man wouldn't be able to do it.

lagwagon555 Wrote:Whereas a CEO could do the work of an average man as if he were taking a holiday. Of course, the CEO gets paid alot more, but that's got nothing to do with who's working harder.

The average man.

How would you define this average man? If this average man were say, an accountant, do you think the CEO could pull his own weight so easily. You're over-generalizing, and relying on the term "average man" to do so.

The CEO could do unskilled labor easily. Everyone can. That's why it's called unskilled labor. But he'd be out on a limb in handling skilled tasks (meaning it'd take a while before he could perform adequately). Being a CEO is a skilled task, so if you gave the "Average Man" enough training, he'd eventually be able to do it as well.

You only need compare language learning to this example to understand that a CEO is not really all that special. He just has a different experience from the "average man."

Quote:I can't believe I'm taking time to type this stuff.

This sort of statement generally shows a lack of openness to a subject. The logic behind it is that one's view is so correct and simple that it defies logic that no one would accept it at face value.

If you do not feel like typing, reading is always good ^^.

I would suggest some life experience to go along with that reading.

I didn't say 'I can't believe I'm taking the time to type this' to mean that my argument is so perfect you can't argue against it. I mean it's a silly argument (that I appear to have started) about wether CEOs or average people work harder. Nevertheless, here I go again...

I don't believe an average man could become a Fortune 500 CEO. It's like saying anyone could become a premier league footballer. Or a senator. There are limited positions, but only the best make it. You can train all you want, but some people are simply more able than others. It's not a common thing to be able to perform the workload of a CEO without cracking. It's not just CEOs, lots of the executive officers of large corporations perform work that we can't, which is how they got into that position. They simply have higher stress tolerances than us.

However, I believe the opposite is true, that with good training, a CEO from the Fortune 500 could perform any technical job, such as an engineer, accountant, lawyer etc, all the way down to handing out newspapers. Not forgetting that most of them came from such backgrounds.

And maybe some life experience would do me good. But I'm not the son of an expat living under the wings of my parents now. I'm only a student, but I've had experience about being on the lowest rungs of the corporate ladder from accounting positions I take part time. Before you go about claiming your high and mighty position about being older and wiser than me, please try to explain your positions. Otherwise you're just as bad as the person Kazelee accused me of being in his last paragraph.

How are they more able? Their stress tolerance? Could you explain further?

lagwagon555 Wrote:They simply have higher stress tolerances than us.

Is that a fact or an opinion? The amount and types of stresses vary depending on a person's occupation and life experiences. We are, however, adaptable beings. So long as we are not overwhelmed too quickly we tend to adapt to whatever a situation demands.

Quote:Otherwise you're just as bad as the person Kazelee accused me of being in his last paragraph.

Accusations have yet to be made. I merely pointing out the what the statement conveyed. For me to attempt tell you who you are over the internet would be kinda difficult, and most likely counter productive.

Quote:I mean it's a silly argument (that I appear to have started) about wether CEOs or average people work harder.

Now, do you mean silly as in unquantifiable a thus pointless to argue or silly as in 当たり前だろう? Because if it's the former, then that's a fair opinion. If it's the latter, I think you're once again making the same sort of statement as above.

Quote:However, I believe the opposite is true, that with good training, a CEO from the Fortune 500 could perform any technical job, such as an engineer, accountant, lawyer etc, all the way down to handing out newspapers. Not forgetting that most of them came from such backgrounds.

Out of curiosity, what is you believe being a CEO entails that makes it so difficult? Why is it as hard as being a senator? I believe CEOs far outnumber senators.

Quote:You can train all you want, but some people are simply more able than others.

This is not limited to just CEO positions. Every level of management/supervisory has limitations when it comes to jobs available. How do this mean the job is harder?

Could it just mean the person chosen to be CEO was slightly more qualified, as opposed "everyone else who didn't make the couldn't hold a candle to the one who did"?

And if a CEO does crack under the stress, does it mean the CEOs job is the most stressful or could it simply be that the individual the chair thought to give the title wasn't as qualified as they believed? Could that layperson they passed over have done a better job in this circumstance?

There are so many variables here it's nearly impossible to just throw out statements comparing the "average man" to the CEO.

What constitutes working harder in these situations, anyway? Think about it?

Does a fortune 500 CEO worker harder than a Japanese Toyota engineer?

The thread title seemed like it would be a tribute to Bill Hicks, but what is this...? :/

lagwagon555 Wrote:Or a senator. There are limited positions, but only the best make it. You can train all you want, but some people are simply more able than others.

Look at the list of current US senators and tell me how many are not both Judeo-Christians and white. I suppose being white and believing in God makes you a superior breed!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cur...s_Senators

Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...

BoccKob Wrote:The thread title seemed like it would be a tribute to Bill Hicks, but what is this...? :/

There are Bill Hicks clips scattered throughout the video.

Bill Hicks, pfft, that unskilled labourer? What a cushy life he had, doing easy work. If only he had the CEO gene which allows one to become a fairly and highly paid hard worker with expertise of the sort that can be applied to any position in our meritocratic world, in contrast to the average person who can only become a lazy maid or moderately skillful scientist or technician, incapable of stepping outside their proper place, living the easy life with their simple tasks and whiny, slacker efforts--they just don't have that special something that CEOs have.

It's sad that I even have to type out this simple stuff. I was able to figure it out through my well-off parents and friends' anecdotes about their servants, and my conversations with the quaint fellows at the local commoner establishment.

lagwagon555 Wrote:I lived in the developing world (Bahrain, albeit as the son of a well-of expatriate) for a few months, and I know people who employed house maids from the phillippines. No minimum wage, long hours, boring job. I made friends with a man who stood on the pavement for 10 hours a day selling newspapers. Of course, these people are very hard workers, but they can't hold a candle to a CEO.

Well if you made one dollar selling papers in that 17-hour period, and the CEO made 10,000$ in his 16 hours, then who's worked harder for their money?

"We Are All One Consciousness"
No.

kazelee Wrote:Is that a fact or an opinion? The amount and types of stresses vary depending on a person's occupation and life experiences. We are, however, adaptable beings. So long as we are not overwhelmed too quickly we tend to adapt to whatever a situation demands.

I don't think that's the case. You are assuming all humans are built the same, and have the same capabilities. It's inevitable that some are better than others, through nature or nuture I don't know. Take for example my soccer players analogy. You can't simply get a random guy, train him up and expect him to play in the premiere league. It takes talent, at soccer. Those who are the most talented at mangement become CEOs for the Fortune 500 in much the same way the most talented soccer players end up playing for Manchester and Liverpool. You can't find your average Joe, train him up, and expect him to perform as well as... some famous soccer player. I don't know, rugby is more my game.

Quote:Accusations have yet to be made. I merely pointing out the what the statement conveyed. For me to attempt tell you who you are over the internet would be kinda difficult, and most likely counter productive.

Sorry, I didn't mean that in a 'he accused me!!' tone of voice, I should have voiced it differentely. I meant they would have been the kind of person you described

Quote:Now, do you mean silly as in unquantifiable a thus pointless to argue or silly as in 当たり前だろう? Because if it's the former, then that's a fair opinion. If it's the latter, I think you're once again making the same sort of statement as above.

The first one as IceCreams post states, its more about definition. There's no straight answer to 'who works harder', I only brought up the subject because somebody thought that CEOs are just fat cats as they are portrayed in cartoons.

Quote:Out of curiosity, what is you believe being a CEO entails that makes it so difficult? Why is it as hard as being a senator? I believe CEOs far outnumber senators.

Well, googling 'daily life of a CEO' should answer that. But it's not the innate task of management which is difficult. It's the matter of scale for the Fortune 500 companies. But the competition for corporate executives jobs in those companies is so tough, that to gain a position you need to be the best of the best. The best work the hardest.

Quote:This is not limited to just CEO positions. Every level of management/supervisory has limitations when it comes to jobs available. How do this mean the job is harder?

Could it just mean the person chosen to be CEO was slightly more qualified, as opposed "everyone else who didn't make the couldn't hold a candle to the one who did"?

And if a CEO does crack under the stress, does it mean the CEOs job is the most stressful or could it simply be that the individual the chair thought to give the title wasn't as qualified as they believed? Could that layperson they passed over have done a better job in this circumstance?

There are so many variables here it's nearly impossible to just throw out statements comparing the "average man" to the CEO.

What constitutes working harder in these situations, anyway? Think about it?

Does a fortune 500 CEO worker harder than a Japanese Toyota engineer?

Again, maybe I should have said corporate executives instead of CEOs. But the people who apply for those jobs aren't your average man of the street. They are people who have already progressed up the ladder in their respective fields. I didn't mean to imply that there's one godlike CEO position, and everyone else is below them. Take for example my countries current PM, John Key. When he left university, he worked in a currency trading firm, where he worked so hard he didn't have time to go to the toilet, he had a bottle attached to his leg. There's actually videos of him taking a leak into a plastic bottle at a desk, when he was in his 20s haha. There's little doubt he was working harder than the average university graduate. But he wasn't a CEO then. However, he ended up as leader of management in Merrill Lynchs currency trading branch. And that's what I'm saying, he's the kind of man with the work ethic to make it to those positions, where as most people don't. If everyone could work as hard as the top percentile of society does, we'd all be alot richer. However it doesn't work out that way.