I read posts here and I do see a lot of inspired and motivated people. But then I read posts title "If you had to explain to somebody why japan is the best place in the world...", and the recent post some rtkr but on youtube to motivate us about the reviewing the Kanji which is filled with tons of "I absolutely love Japan, it is the most godly and amazing place on the earth" type of content, it just makes me wonder...How many of us here don't really understand much about Japan to love it and everything about it. I'm not trying to hate, and for the manga enthusiasts out there, I understand enjoying reading manga, and if you love manga that is ok. But don't let your love for some entertainment medium spill out so quickly to a love of Japan.

Japan is a country that is among western countries stands as an equal economically. But many people believe that japan has the same values as westerners on basics like healthcare, childcare, psychological care, it goes on and on. Many of us here are aware of many of the issues with Japan, and how life there isn't just manga, anime, idols,j-pop, hostess clubs, blah blah blah.

The point is, if you plan to live in Japan, but have yet to stick your head out of the entertainment sector and see that living life in Japan certainly has its irritabilities, discomforts, and xenophobic bureaucracy that can at times make life a little bit sour just like in everyother country. This doesn't apply to everyone... but way too many japanese language learners are a bit too zealous and a bit too ignorant. Not to be a hater, but better to realize it now then later imo.

Edit by Moderator

OK Yonosa. Since when did being thought of as a hater bother you?
If someone wants a reality check about Japan, just go to Gaijinpot.com
There will be lots of newbie English teachers who will vent over there if one needs a discouragement thread. This is my second tour of duty in Japan and I have loved most ever second of it (even being part of the NOVA collapse three years ago). I would not want to be born Japanese, but being a Gaijin in Japan is amazing! This is from someone who doesn't like anime or sushi.

I know what you mean and I was the same a year or so ago when I first got into the Japanese culture. I think its because its so different and unless you look hard you can only find the good things out about the culture, which gives you a biased view.

Now however, I try to look for real life youtube videos of the real Japan, or read blogs/posts about what Japan is really like. I think the hectic lifestyle, the long hours then getting drunk most nights, crowded places, stereotypes against westerners and a lot of raw food are the bad points for me. But until I actually go there I will not know for sure, so I'm going to hopefully apply for a post-grad university course over there for a year or so to get a taste of what its like.

@bodhis,
I am not saying don't love japan, I am saying don't love it too much. Especially before you know what it is a about. Anyways, you already know what its about, so posts isn't really for you I guess.

I've been here about three years total. I stay for the convenience, food, women, society that has emphasis on not causing meiwaku, and high quality consumer goods.

Yeah there is bureaucracy, but that exists everywhere. Getting my passport renewed in Canada is a much bigger hassle than anything I've had to do here (including numerous visa changes). Paying income taxes here in Japan is so easy compared to home too.

Yeah there is xenophobia, but it is MUCH worse in America. I was subject to much more hate when I lived in Texas (daily) than in Japan (none other than one "Japanese only" sign I saw in the red light district I used to live in) just for being Canadian/a foreigner. Hell, even in Canada I know one Japanese family who has lived there for several decades and occasionally gets stuff like GO HOME and swastikas (ironic since Japan was an Axis power) spray painted on their house. Yeah there is xenophobia in Japan, but it's nowhere near as hateful as the west.

Childcare is still pretty basic because until recently dual income families were pretty uncommon (they are still the exception rather than the norm), and most people lived pretty close to their grandparents (who are babysitters by default). This is something that I see changing quickly.

I've never had to use public healthcare here, but it seems a lot better than the US (in that it exists), better than Canada (low wait times), but also worse than Canada (many drugs are not legal, costs are higher overall). Psychological care is bad from a western perspective, but western psychological care is bad from an eastern perspective (overemphasis on medication, diagnosing normal people or childhood phases as illness, direct advertising drugs to consumers, etc).

Probably the biggest problem with Japanese society (other than 少子高齢化) is that the school system is utterly horrible. The biggest problem for foreigners is that most western foreigners come here with no real skills and end up exploited by the corrupt English industry. It needs heavy federal gov't intervention (local gov'ts knowingly violate the law to lower costs).

In any case, I think your post belongs on another forum. RevTK remarkably has a low population of anime otaku. Yes most otaku are too busy fapping to doujinshi to really learn Japanese, but many other forums are plagued by people who enjoy discussing the possibility of learning Japanese without putting in the effort to actually do it. Very few threads here even discuss Japan itself except when someone is asking for advice. The only memorable thread is the guy looking for a Japanese virgin that would worship him, which may have been a troll.

We still have our maniacs here. But then again, this post also didnt really apply to you either.

What is your motivation for starting this thread? Why do you care if people you don't know obsess about something?

bodhisamaya Wrote:If someone wants a reality check about Japan, just go to Gaijinpot.com

it's not really reality tho, pretty much a place for the jaded.

but yeah, random topic, if anyone comes to Japan thinking it's gonna be like a cartoon then I'm not sure you can help them...

I've only been here since September, and I already knew a lot of the societal/cultural/etc problems that Japan has. Being here is actually better than I had fooled myself into thinking. Then again, I'm a student, and I don't have to deal with regular life; jobs, apartments, etc...

I do agree that most people here aren't necessarily the people to be aiming this at...from my experience, at least.
It's more about the language (and other languages here and there as well) as it is about the "zomg japan"

thegeelonghellswan Wrote:What is your motivation for starting this thread? Why do you care if people you don't know obsess about something?

Because they sometimes cloud the "Recent Topics" section at the top of the page.

Yonosa Wrote:

thegeelonghellswan Wrote:What is your motivation for starting this thread? Why do you care if people you don't know obsess about something?

Because they sometimes cloud the "Recent Topics" section at the top of the page.

It is Nestor's responsibility to make sure no topic stays in the top 7 most recent too long.

I don't think the right way to look at this is really the "Japan also has its problems" route. The fact is that people react to cultures other than their own in pretty much the exact same way no matter what the specifics of the culture are. There are three primary ways people deal with the 'adjustment phrase' of culture shock. 60% of people who spend a long long time in a foreign country ultimately reject the culture. They also have a particularly hard time with reverse culture shock if they choose to return home. 10% 'adopt' the new culture; they willingly loose their original identity and completely try to adopt that of the new culture. 30% of people create a blend between their old and new culture, choosing parts as they see fit from each.

So, what you should remember is, if you choose to live for many years in a foreign country, 60% of you will hate it rather than love it, no matter what country it is. If you live in Japan for 15 years, it's more likely that you will ultimately hate it, rather than love it. However, shorter periods of time don't work like this, and the chance of you enjoying yourself is much higher. People generally love things such as studying abroad.

Tzadeck Wrote:There are three primary ways people deal with the 'adjustment phrase' of culture shock. 60% of people who spend a long long time in a foreign country ultimately reject the culture. They also have a particularly hard time with reverse culture shock if they choose to return home. 10% 'adopt' the new culture; they willingly loose their original identity and completely try to adopt that of the new culture. 30% of people create a blend between their old and new culture, choosing parts as they see fit from each.

I don't think I ever really had much of a cultural identity to begin with, since I've never actually experienced culture shock. Never been homesick either. Everywhere is just a place to me. "Better" or "worse" aren't descriptors I can use honestly, things are just different. Maybe I just need more time for it to kick in, but honestly, it's been over seven months now, you'd think I'd have felt something.

Mcjon01 Wrote:I don't think I ever really had much of a cultural identity to begin with, since I've never actually experienced culture shock. Never been homesick either. Everywhere is just a place to me. "Better" or "worse" aren't descriptors I can use honestly, things are just different. Maybe I just need more time for it to kick in, but honestly, it's been over seven months now, you'd think I'd have felt something.

Culture shock affects almost everyone, and almost nobody thinks that it's affecting them. Edit: Also, very few people actually know what culture shock is, even though everyone who's lived abroad has heard the phrase and inevitably had it explained to them in a seminar/orientation.

Seven months is a very short period of time.

Quote:Culture shock affects almost everyone, and almost nobody thinks that it's affecting them. Also, very few people actually know what culture shock is, even though everyone who's lived abroad has heard the phrase and inevitably had it explained to them in a seminar/orientation.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what's happening to me. The only thing I've experienced that would be "culture shock" in my definition is "oh that's cool. you stand on the left side of escalators"
Unless it's happening on quite a subtle level, I'm not sure

Tzadeck Wrote:Culture shock affects almost everyone, and almost nobody thinks that it's affecting them.

Also, seven months is a very short period of time.

It's also quite possible that whatever effects it had on me were simply lost in the noise of my countless other... well, let's call them "quirks". That's charming, right? Like Monk, everybody loves Monk. It's like, I look at a list of culture shock symptoms and think "Dammit, that's my baseline personality" <_<

Asriel Wrote:

Quote:Culture shock affects almost everyone, and almost nobody thinks that it's affecting them. Also, very few people actually know what culture shock is, even though everyone who's lived abroad has heard the phrase and inevitably had it explained to them in a seminar/orientation.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what's happening to me. The only thing I've experienced that would be "culture shock" in my definition is "oh that's cool. you stand on the left side of escalators"
Unless it's happening on quite a subtle level, I'm not sure

Well, culture shock has nothing to do with whether or not things are surprising to you or not. This is definitely what most people think culture shock means--and it sounds like that's what you think it means.

Edit: The Wikipedia article explains it well enough, so I'd just recommend going there.

Mcjon01 Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:Culture shock affects almost everyone, and almost nobody thinks that it's affecting them.

Sorry! Looks like I edited my post while you were writing yours. I'll add an 'edit' tag to mine.

Yonosa Wrote:Japan is not what you think it is! Give up your diluted dreams.

Pure rant.

People who have actually been to Japan Wrote:It's not heaven, but it's pretty good in my experience.

Actually evidenced.

Yonosa Wrote:This doesn't really apply to you then.

WOW!

To those people who think that Japan is the holy grail of countries (all two of you), it's just like every country. But you'd have found that out eventually, no? I mean, every other blog on Japan will tell you so. The other half of blogs will rant about the one bad incident (the blogger probably made even worse), or paint every aspect of the society in a negative light simply for the sake of pleasing their own egos.