Zarxrax Wrote:I don't really know which side to believe in the climate change thing, but there is one thing I want to say.
If you want to fix the climate, start with the worst offenders. I mean just look at China. Their country is covered by clouds of pollution, yet Americans are told that we need to make significant changes in our lifestyle that will make a rather small difference, comparatively.

When the US can do something as simple as ratifying the Kyoto Protocol, I might be able to do something more than laugh at people whining about "significant changes".

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Also... I ♥ IceCream.

It's worth noting that much of China's pollution is caused by manufacturing for American (and other western) companies - companies that manufacture in China specifically BECAUSE they can get away with spending less on environmental (and human rights) protections. This makes it ridiculous to point a finger at China since it is essentially just our waste exported into a foreign country.

If China enacted strictly enforced laws to protect the environment, all that foreign business would disappear to another poor country as China would become too expensive.

@Yonosa. Read those articles and come back in a few days to argue against climate change. All of the common objections to climate science are commented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_...ate_change
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

An Inconvenient Truth is also deemed accurate by Wikipedia:

The Associated Press contacted more than 100 climate researchers and questioned them about the film's veracity. All 19 climate scientists who had seen the movie said that Gore accurately conveyed the science, with few errors.[34]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconvenient_Truth

And the US is very close to China in terms of CO2 emissions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou..._emissions

http://www.drroyspencer.com/2009/01/incr...r-natural/

http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/frameset.ph...120110.php

J7 (and others) - if you haven't seen the doc Manufactured Landscapes, you might find it interesting. It presents Edward Burtynsky's art - photos of man-made stuff on a massive scale - and the implied effects on the planet.

Some of the scenes of development in China will be with me forever. (The film's depiction of chinese people struck me as goofy/unfortunate, but just ignore that if you can.) The images are incredibly powerful: the giant village-burying dam .....moonscape mines.....factories miles long....mountains of motherboards for grannies to recycle .... bulldozing Shanghai shacks. They are terrifying and beautiful. I don't think I was able to comprehend the scale of these projects before.

I think instead of "is it true or not", we should be asking "why wouldn't we do something about it?". We, as humans, are causing a lot of unneeded waste. We've also come a long way in alternative uses for energy, so why not just move along that path while trying to minimize our waste?

It seems ridiculous to do nothing, just like it'd be ridiculous to try living without power.

I think planet Earth won't be habitable in the next few hundred years anyway because there's far more people who don't give a flying **** about the planet or anything else on it than there are people who do, unfortunately.

I once went camping with some friends, and after drinking tons of soda, one of them started throwing the empty cans off into the woods. I told him, "Dude, give the cans to me, I'll put em in my backpack with the rest of the garbage and recycle it when I get home. Don't add anymore litter to the damn environment." He said, "I'm only one person, it doesn't make any difference if I don't litter."

True, maybe it doesn't make a difference with just one person making an effort. I often think that way too but I do my best to help out anyway. However, when 2 or 3 billion people have the same attitude, it starts to make a difference, a rather big one. He didn't understand my logic though.

This guy on youtube make some excellent videos addressing the science of climate change, it's definitely worth your time to check out:
http://www.youtube.com/user/greenman3610

Nice thread, Smackle.

Found this: http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/0...e-threats/

Funny that the original publisher of the 'open letter' put it behind a paywall or something, but it's posted everywhere else?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/20...pen-letter

Apparently inquiries have cleared those scientists with the hacked emails: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/20...alpractice
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/20...es-cleared

Yup the UEA academics (Phil Jones especially) were exonerated over a month ago. Hardly surprising - nobody becomes a research scientist with bad intentions.

Blahah Wrote:Yup the UEA academics (Phil Jones especially) were exonerated over a month ago. Hardly surprising - nobody becomes a research scientist with bad intentions.

So they're all saints, eh? You must be a research scientist yourself.

No, I said nobody becomes a research scientist with bad intentions - some people are corrupted later. There are very few bad reasons for entering a career in academic science - it's largely a thankless and repetitive task. I doubt there are many people who stick to academia with bad intentions either - if you wanted money you'd sell out to private companies or administration.

As it happens, though, I am (a research scientist myself).

Research scientists are a diabolical cabal. They're perpetrating against humanity a systematic process of intimidation and manipulation the likes of which the world has never known. All that stands in their way is Sarah Palin, senses keen from evading Putin's rearing head, and the fossil fuel industry.

So where do the Evil Scientists come from then? Hollywood should have taught you long ago that all (ok most) scientists are evil masterminds who want to destroy humanity and who become scientists for that sole purpose.

Do you really believe that this is a safety test?

http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robot...n-robotics

Wake up!

Eikyu Wrote:So where do the Evil Scientists come from then? Hollywood should have taught you long ago that all (ok most) scientists are evil masterminds who want to destroy humanity and who become scientists for that sole purpose.

Do you really believe that this is a safety test?

http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robot...n-robotics

Wake up!

This is how mad scientists are made: http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100504/f...0.210.html

He looks familiar, no? The genetic change is occurring as a result of environmental variables...

Regarding the last few posts:

Schizo much?

kazelee Wrote:Regarding the last few posts:

Schizo much?

Regarding your FACE.