sikieiki Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:The videos are interesting; unfortunately even the "basic" dialogues are actually somewhat advanced but maybe I can use this with my more advanced students.

I think the main problem with them is that, at least in lesson 1, the dialogue is very specific to Japanese high school students (and a teacher)...a lot of the material in there wouldn't be all that useful to an adult or even college student. The translations/notes don't really point out specifically which parts of the dialogue are inappropriate outside of that specific context of a high school foreign exchange student coming to a Japanese school. The pitfall of "real Japanese" is that if you don't have a good handle on exactly what's going on, it's easy to try to use the "real Japanese" yourself and end up using it in the wrong situations.

I also feel like the delivery of the lines and the portrayal of the characters is more like actors in a televised drama rather than real Japanese people in the same situations (and some of the scenes themselves are more like scenes from a TV show than something that would ever occur in real life). One thing I like about the Japanese: The Spoken Language videos (which have become unfortunately dated) is that the "acting" is very natural; the participants seem like actual Japanese people rather than actors playing roles. (Although no scripted/written conversation, no matter what the source, will ever be "real Japanese" in the sense of being exactly like a conversation between two Japanese native speakers. This is true of any language, though.)

Speaking of which, I absolutely hate every japanese drama I have seen because the acting is so awkward and scripted, in an extremely predictable and cheesy way. Are there any very simple series I can get that arent like this?

hmmm, not sure where you can find it. But a lot of them are like that. Have you watched gokusen? After the first season of watching it, The second season was the same-type of thing, nothing really new, expect the actors. The story is was still the same. Although I still enjoyed it a lot, need variety I guess.

I think what you need is random convos to listen to. Try podcasts or youtube. A lot of stuff is scripted but that's in every language. The only thing about real convos, random ones as well. Is that, they are really fast. But it's better to get used to the speed, b/c japanese people like that.

sikieiki Wrote:Speaking of which, I absolutely hate every japanese drama I have seen because the acting is so awkward and scripted, in an extremely predictable and cheesy way. Are there any very simple series I can get that arent like this?

You actually might consider the predictability to be an asset for learning Japanese. Even with my low skill level, I can quite often predict the response and say it right along with them. The more I watch, the more I can do that with. It's pretty good practice.

Also, if you don't have to -think- about half the content, that leaves more time to think about the rest.

wccrawford Wrote:

sikieiki Wrote:Speaking of which, I absolutely hate every japanese drama I have seen because the acting is so awkward and scripted, in an extremely predictable and cheesy way. Are there any very simple series I can get that arent like this?

You actually might consider the predictability to be an asset for learning Japanese. Even with my low skill level, I can quite often predict the response and say it right along with them. The more I watch, the more I can do that with. It's pretty good practice.

Also, if you don't have to -think- about half the content, that leaves more time to think about the rest.

If I already know the response, I already know the response. I am not learning. If its scripted and easy to predict, its not quite natural and therefore not much of help to someone trying to learn speech patterns and the intricacies of native level speaking.

I'll never understand why Westerners seem so happy about Japanese media. The stuff in America is soooooooo much better! After getting used to things like HBO series, whenever I see Japanese dramas etc. I just cringe at how atrocious the acting, dialogue, and plots are

Aijin Wrote:I'll never understand why Westerners seem so happy about Japanese media. The stuff in America is soooooooo much better! After getting used to things like HBO series, whenever I see Japanese dramas etc. I just cringe at how atrocious the acting, dialogue, and plots are

lol. It's always like this when you learn the language, it changes your interest to your target language. Personally I find j-dramas better because I'm learning it. It's strange but for me all the tv shows, are pretty boring to me nowadays. Only a few that ever got my interest. The rest seems to be soap-operas and shows like csi, which is pretty much the same thing over and over again but different plot.

Aijin Wrote:I'll never understand why Westerners seem so happy about Japanese media. The stuff in America is soooooooo much better! After getting used to things like HBO series, whenever I see Japanese dramas etc. I just cringe at how atrocious the acting, dialogue, and plots are

Well, I agree with you -- outside of the Taiga Drama I've never been able to watch any Japanese drama.

mentat:

Quote:90% of the specific material is not specific. Plain old simple Japanese.

Some is, some isn't. Just taking the first dialogue as an example, almost everything the 担当 says is sort of stereotypical "male teacher" speak -- I've never heard anyone in real life say よろしくたのむな or いろいろ教えてやってくれ. Some people may say those things, but I don't think they're necessarily good Japanese phrases to include in a series of "basic" skits, particularly with no supporting notes or explanations of any kind.

In the review questions they even have "ほら！チャイムなってる＿＿！” and you have to pick ぞ from the multiple choice questions.

It's very standard Japanese for a TV drama set in a high school.

(Nevertheless I still think that's a pretty good site with a lot of useful material on it.)

Aijin Wrote:I'll never understand why Westerners seem so happy about Japanese media. The stuff in America is soooooooo much better! After getting used to things like HBO series, whenever I see Japanese dramas etc. I just cringe at how atrocious the acting, dialogue, and plots are

What do you mean by that?

Japanese media covers a broad range of genres. It is not fair to put something like Youji Yamada's films in the same category as Kamikaze Girls for example (or Takeshi's Castle as those stupid prank shows, or Fumo Chitai as typical romantic drama).

Aijin Wrote:I'll never understand why Westerners seem so happy about Japanese media. The stuff in America is soooooooo much better! After getting used to things like HBO series, whenever I see Japanese dramas etc. I just cringe at how atrocious the acting, dialogue, and plots are

Oh, that's a simple one: It's different.

The subjects covered are slightly different, the endings are slightly different, the standard situations and reactions are different.

So why is Erin played by a Japanese actress? She's obviously meant to be a British foreigner in the plot and appears to be white european (blonde hair, round eyes) in the manga.

Are white actresses who speak decent Japanese really that rare over there?

Aijin Wrote:I'll never understand why Westerners seem so happy about Japanese media. The stuff in America is soooooooo much better! After getting used to things like HBO series, whenever I see Japanese dramas etc. I just cringe at how atrocious the acting, dialogue, and plots are

I've never found a J-dorama that I liked - I'm too used to the high production standards of US dramas. But animation from Japan completely blows US animation out of the water. Apart from a few comedy series from the US, there isn't much excellent animation for adults.

[Katsuo]

aphasiac Wrote:So why is Erin played by a Japanese actress?

Presumably because native pronunciation makes a better model for learners.

Quote:Are white actresses who speak decent Japanese really that rare over there?

The actress who plays Erin is half British.

Katsuo Wrote:The actress who plays Erin is half British.

Really?? wow, no wonder she looks so かわいい. What's her name??

Edit: found it; she's called Ellie Toyota (豊田エリー), and she seems to be a j-model/actress.

Blahah Wrote:But animation from Japan completely blows US animation out of the water. Apart from a few comedy series from the US, there isn't much excellent animation for adults.

Seconded. American animation falls into two camps:

- Extremely simplistic formulaic comedy for kids. (Phineas and Ferb)

- Shockingly vulgar, yet hilarious stuff for adults. (South Park)

Occasionally, you'll get a "family-friendly" story that isn't complete dreck ("The Iron Giant," "Horton Hears a Who," most Pixar films, heck even "How to Train Your Dragon" was decent), but they're few, far between, and strictly cinematic releases.

The concept of an animated drama on television which might involve some violence and naughty words or even (*gasp*) sex hasn't caught on. We've never produced a domestic Ghost in the Shell or Cowboy Bebop or even Fullmetal Alchemist.

If you're comparing live action thriller dramas a la HBO, then yes, America reigns supreme: better acting, better effects, better writing.

But, Japan also takes the prize in interesting young adult literature (American YA writers/publishers are currently chasing the next Twilight. *barf*) and audio drama--which no longer even exists in America.

wildweathel Wrote:Occasionally, you'll get a "family-friendly" story that isn't complete dreck ("The Iron Giant," "Horton Hears a Who," most Pixar films, heck even "How to Train Your Dragon" was decent), but they're few, far between, and strictly cinematic releases.

The concept of an animated drama on television which might involve some violence and naughty words or even (*gasp*) sex hasn't caught on. We've never produced a domestic Ghost in the Shell or Cowboy Bebop or even Fullmetal Alchemist.

Well, there was Avatar on Nickelodeon, but that still doesn't really qualify for what you're getting at, I guess. I mean, it was a multi-season animated drama, but it was also very clearly aimed at kids. At least it was on TV, though! I'd say it was a step in the right direction for American animation, except that nobody seems to be following in its footsteps.

aphasiac Wrote:So why is Erin played by a Japanese actress? She's obviously meant to be a British foreigner in the plot and appears to be white european (blonde hair, round eyes) in the manga.

Are white actresses who speak decent Japanese really that rare over there?

Very often roles meant for Westerners in stories will be played by Japanese simply because finding skilled caucasian actors/actresses who also speak native-level Japanese is exceedingly rare. Audiences are so used to seeing Japanese people portray characters that were originally European etc. in the manga/book/whatever that it doesn't really raise any eyebrows. I suppose it's a little similar to how Hollywood uses Chinese actresses for Japanese roles, etc.

The only time it's really bothered me was in のだめ where the German maestro is instead played by a creepy old Japanese man -_- ruined it for me.

Especially in something that's supposed to be for foreign learners, all the speakers should be native Japanese even if they're supposed to be portraying foreigners -- beginners don't need to make a special effort to see videos of foreign accented Japanese, they can hear that just by going to a class or speaking themselves.

(If it's a drama rather than a learning resource it would be interesting to see non-native speakers in roles.)

Since when are British people supposed to be white? Last I heard, London is a diverse city. I'd just like to put it out there that Japanese people have been born and have lived in countries other than Japan. In fact, I even attended high school with such a person!

wildweathel Wrote:But, Japan also takes the prize in interesting young adult literature (American YA writers/publishers are currently chasing the next Twilight. *barf*) and audio drama--which no longer even exists in America.

Speaking of audio dramas, anybody got any good recommendations/suggestions for sources of it? I'd like something I can listen to while I do the washing up :-)

Aijin Wrote:The only time it's really bothered me was in のだめ where the German maestro is instead played by a creepy old Japanese man -_- ruined it for me.

Ow yeah! This and that guy from Liar Game. Its so creepy.

I started mining sentences from Erin's Challenge, but quickly became too lazy of all the copy and paste, so I spent a few hours figuring out how to access the scripts directly.

Basic Lesson: https://www.erin.ne.jp/en/lesson01/basic/parts/text.xml
Advanced Lesson: https://www.erin.ne.jp/en/lesson01/advan...s/text.xml
Let's See: https://www.erin.ne.jp/en/lesson01/letss...s/text.xml

Just change the lesson number in the url for the other lessons.
You can easily get the data into a google spreadsheet with the following formula:
=importXML("https://www.erin.ne.jp/en/lesson01/basic/parts/text.xml"; "/*/*")

Hey just noticed there is a sentences section for every video
https://www.erin.ne.jp/en/lesson01/expla...ample.html
was thinking about mining them but they are flash
does anyone know of an OCR or something that can grab these, or Am I stuck handwriting them?

https://www.erin.ne.jp/en/lesson01/expla...s/text.xml

Edit: wait that's not right...
I'm not sure how to get them.

If you download the flash you can try poking around in it with a decompiler. That's how I found the other xml files.

He's talking about the example sentences, which are different than the scripts I had posted.

Oh sorry!

I was thinking of grabbing the flash (somehow)
then taking stills
then using some OCR

would that work
Flash video downloader in firefox wouldn't grab it