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Harbaugh/zhongwen.com deck collaboration?

#51
I'd prefer to save the vocab for later, in a different deck (but jiangdh can add whatever she likes). Aside from finishing this deck faster without adding vocab, I think it's easier to review and study cards that don't have too much info on them (I already somewhat ignore the pinyin).
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#52
Sorry that I was out of touch last week-- as bflatnine said, it was really busy at work. Just to update on where I am, I should be finished with 15 soon and be sending it in.

To followup on the vocab question-- I was originally just writing down the vocab for my own use because I found that it helps my retention, which meant that I was entering it in simplified characters since that's what I'm using most of the time (I'm living in mainland China right now). If anyone wants to use the vocab that I'm writing in I can just send it along as well and you could include it. Let me know if you have strong feelings about having it in traditional instead of simplified and I can make the switch. Otherwise it can just wait for a separate project if that's what everyone else wants to do.

The other thing I'm doing for my own use is making a separate copy that includes all the characters (for example: "Jar 酉and separate 分 with an ancient character related to xìng 興 phonetic") It doesn't take much extra time and has been fairly useful to me so far in reinforcing the meaning of characters learned elsewhere. If anyone is interested in getting a copy of that for 15, let me know and I'll send it to you.
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#53
Thanks for popping in, jiangdh.

After looking through the index at all the vocab and realizing there are around 12,000 entries, I think we should definitely hold off on it. It's just too much extra work for a deck that's geared toward characters rather than words. It would make a great project for a vocab list though. But again, feel free to go ahead and make a copy for yourself with the vocab included if you want.

I'm going through and inputting the glyphs you couldn't find, but one of them (15–83) has me stumped. Really stumped. As in I've been looking through everything I can get my hands on for the last 2 hours or so. I'm almost ready to just say that Harbaugh invented it himself because although I've found variants of characters that include this component, I've found no reference to it in its own right in the 說文解字, the 康熙字典, or anywhere else. I've asked for help on chinese-forums.com since there are a few scholars there with considerable knowledge of etymology and ancient texts/characters, so hopefully someone will be able to help me find it. But if it does indeed turn out to be made-up, we'll just have to fake it somehow. The best way I found so far to fake it is 「?+囟」.

Later today I'll go in and update the Anki Online deck.

By the way, is anyone else excited about Anki releasing an official version for iPhone/Pad/Pod in the next few days?
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#54
Also, let's be careful to make sure we're including all the simplified characters where they belong. I found a few that I knew had simplified versions because they included things like 訁 which are always simplified. Also, there were a few where the simplified character was in both boxes, so be careful about that too. Sometimes Harbaugh includes the same character in simplified and traditional (any character containing 骨, for instance), when there's not actually any simplification, just a difference in the way fonts render the characters. This is weird, but go ahead and include them, preferably with a note in column G. Sometimes the "simplified" character he gives is more complex than the traditional one. Usually this means they are just variants, not a "simplified" and a "traditional." Again, it's really weird that he chose to do that, but just include a note in column G.
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#55
OK, I went to the library yesterday so I could try to find that character (15–83). It isn't even in the 漢語大字典. I've convinced myself that it doesn't exist in Unicode. I don't know what the deal is, because it's in the 說文, not as a head entry but in the gloss for 票. I have a 2009 printed (as in typeset) copy of the 說文 and it's right there, but I have no idea how they got it there. I give up. I'm just going to put ?+囟.

Anyway, I have family coming in town for a week starting on Sunday, so I may not be able to do much work during that time. Just a heads up.
Edited: 2010-05-21, 9:47 am
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#56
Quick update from over here in China: I just sent in group 31 to bflatnine, which was a long one. I'm going to be in SE Asia for the next two weeks, probably without internet and will check in as soon as I'm back. Is my next group 34?
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#57
I believe your next one is 35. I'll be back at it in a few days, so we'll regroup then. Have fun in SE Asia!
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#58
OK, I'm back. After my sister-in-law left we had to deal with some car trouble, but we've got it sorted now. I should be able to get some work done tomorrow. I'll finish 29, and I'll post 31 for jiangdh. I'll also add the rows for some more charts so we can move on. And by "we" I mean yukamina. Big Grin
Edited: 2010-06-01, 10:23 pm
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#59
Ha ha, I've been slacking for the past few days. I guess I should finish the chart I was working on...
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#60
I would like to comment that it's kinda hard to scroll through such a long document.
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#61
yukamina Wrote:I would like to comment that it's kinda hard to scroll through such a long document.
I've noticed that too. We could break it up into sheets I guess.
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#62
Hey, how's it going with everyone? Who's still working on the project?
Things seem to have slowed down quite a bit. I know the project can be tiring, but it would be a shame it was left unfinished...

bflatnine, could you update the anki deck with what's been finished since last time?
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#63
yukamina Wrote:Hey, how's it going with everyone? Who's still working on the project?
Things seem to have slowed down quite a bit. I know the project can be tiring, but it would be a shame it was left unfinished...

bflatnine, could you update the anki deck with what's been finished since last time?
I'm sorry I haven't been around much lately. My Latin and French studies have been increasing lately, so it's been hard to find a balance. This evening I'll update the Anki deck. I should have time to do another section but if not I definitely will tomorrow. I think jiangdh should be back from vacation pretty soon too, so we can all get back on it now.

Let's focus on finishing up through section 50 for now. I know you've already done several sections in that group, yukamina, but I think it's best for us to stay as close to each other as possible. Anyone who finishes their sections in the 32-50 group should help with some of the longer sections that other people have (39 and 45 are the longest, most are reasonably short). Here are the sections (skipping the ones yukamina has already finished):

32 - bflatnine
33 - yukamina
35 - jiangdh
36 - zodiac
37 - bflatnine
39 - yukamina
40 - jiangdh
41 - zodiac
43 - bflatnine
44 - yukamina
45 - jiangdh
46 - zodiac
47 - bflatnine
48 - yukamina
49 - jiangdh

Sorry again for being away so long. Let's keep pushing though because we're already 1/3 of the way done (1411 out of 4280) with this huge project!
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#64
OK, the Anki deck is updated.
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#65
It's probably of no help, but I went in order through the book and made stories for the first 350 characters or so:
http://rapidshare.com/files/402303621/ae....docx.html

I stopped and decided to gather extra kanji from context.

I also had an Anki deck with the same content, but I doubt it will be any help.
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#66
Sorry that I've been gone so long. The SE Asia trip extended itself until now. I'm back and should be sending 35 in soon.
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#67
jiangdh Wrote:Sorry that I've been gone so long. The SE Asia trip extended itself until now. I'm back and should be sending 35 in soon.
No worries. Hopefully it was a good trip!
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#68
I'm not sure I'd be able to sustain the effort but I'd like to try on something small. So, how can I participate?
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#69
I'm sorry I haven't been around guys. I had a big unexpected event happen, and I won't be around for the next week and a half or two weeks. If anyone wants to get zonius set up that would be great, otherwise I'll get back on it when I'm back in town.
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#70
I am interested in collaborating. I've been working through the Harbough book for a while now, and am quite familiar with it. Can someone send me the Google Docs link?
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#71
OK guys, sorry I've been out so long. I'm back now and will get back to work on the project tomorrow. I've sent the info to both zonius and Dempf, and will look at where we are in the spreadsheet tomorrow and get both of them worked into the schedule.

I should have no more absences, and my plans for moving to Taiwan next year are starting to really solidify, so I've got my motivation back. We're almost halfway there and we have some fresh help now, so let's make the push through to the end and get this thing done.

yukamina, jiangdh, and zodiac, please pop in here and post if you're still able to work on the project so I can see how many of us there are now.
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#72
Just wondering, how does this book compare with Remembering S/T Hanzi? Obviously it has about 700 more characters, but apart from that?

I slacked off on RSH last year and I'm back to doing it and up to 500 characters in the past 10 days.
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#73
If you're talking about RTH/RSH Book 1, then Harbaugh has 2780 more characters. Even if you're talking about Books 1 and 2 you're looking at 1280 more characters with Harbaugh (there are 4280 total).

Apart from that, Harbaugh gives traditional etymology rather than the made-up mnemonics, which is useful to people who are interested in such things. Some people also find it preferable whether they find it interesting or not, just because they like to know they're learning legitimate etymologies. Some people just like it better altogether.

The book also lists vocabulary using each character (about 12,000 vocab words), differentiates mainland vs. Taiwan usage, gives pronunciations, and uses actual definitions rather than keywords (giving more than one definition when appropriate). It also gives simplified forms when they exist.

Even if you don't use it to learn characters from, it's worth getting to use as a reference. I've seen it used for 5 dollars, so it isn't too much of an investment.
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#74
I noticed that I confused the Harbaugh book with a different book that only had 2300 or so characters. Sorry about that.

I'd love to buy it, unfortunately it's only available as a physical book. No ebook available. Authors need to get with the times, and yes I know it's practically all on zhongwen.com, but I'd still like an ebook version that is a duplicate of the physical book because of the structure and portability.

If I can manage to get a hold of a copy I'll pitch in to this project.

Also, shouldn't this be under the Remembering the Hanzi forum?
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#75
deathtrap Wrote:I noticed that I confused the Harbaugh book with a different book that only had 2300 or so characters. Sorry about that.

I'd love to buy it, unfortunately it's only available as a physical book. No ebook available. Authors need to get with the times, and yes I know it's practically all on zhongwen.com, but I'd still like an ebook version that is a duplicate of the physical book because of the structure and portability.

If I can manage to get a hold of a copy I'll pitch in to this project.

Also, shouldn't this be under the Remembering the Hanzi forum?
Well, technically it doesn't have to do with RTH/RSH, and it's a group project, so I put it into the Group Study forum where all the other group projects are. Plus, it could be useful to Japanese learners too (though they'd have to look up pronunciations).

I'd guess you were thinking of McNaughton's Reading & Writing Chinese.

Keep in mind, Harbaugh's field is economics, not language. The book was a side project he did while in school if I remember correctly, and the website is a spare time only thing. Trust me, I'd love a digital copy too, especially if that meant I could copy and paste from it. This project could have been done in no time flat. But that's the reason we're even doing this project, to convert it into a portable, usable format.

Hopefully you'll be able to participate at some point. The more the merrier!
Edited: 2010-07-25, 8:12 pm
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